I'll try a few of your questions and I'm sure others will chime in. ;)

(I made it four days ago.) Is it still safe to eat/freeze, or should I toss all 9 pints?

Too late to freeze. Without seeing your recipe we can't tell if it is safe to eat or not. Likely what you can eat in the next week would be ok IF it has been refrigerated all along.

I've seen how-to's saying you can can crushed tomatoes/ tomato sauce (nothing added) without acid, and that's what I did... but now I see that most people consider that risky.

Sorry, not possible. Tomatoes must be acidified and that requirement has been in widespread effect since at least 1994 and since 1976 per USDA. Only outdated recipes claim you can can tomatoes without acid. What sources of recipes have you been using? It is too late to reprocess - 24 hours is the limit. If you will be cooking it in other recipes, a hard boil for 10 minutes is required.

What are the pros and cons of BWB vs. pressure canning crushed tomatoes/tomato sauce?

The acidification requirements remain the same regardless of using PC or BWB. In most cases, pressure canning and BWB are not interchangeable. Unless the required pressure and time are stipulated in a tested recipe, "how long" is just guess work and not safe.

NCHFP provides alternative PC instructions for many tomato recipes for those who wish to PC their tomatoes but the acidification requirement remains the same.

Sorry. ;)

Dave

Okay...

First... regarding the tomato sauce. You said, "If you will be cooking it in other recipes, a hard boil for 10 minutes is required." I also read on the USDA site where that will kill the spores. So, in that case, why WOULDN'T it be safe to re-process?

Next... re: pros and cons of BWB or PC canning... I understand about the acid. I meant personal preference... is the consistency better in one, etc. Which do different people prefer, and why?

I can answer a few of these:
4) Finally, I want to try Annie's recipe. Can I:
- leave out cumin?
Yes, you can.
- use minced garlic from a jar?
Yes, you can.
- use 1/3 cup of lemon juice (use bottled, not fresh) instead of 1/3 cup of vinegar?
Yes. You can always substitute lemon juice for vinegar in a recipe, BUT you CANNOT substitute vinegar for lemon juice (lemon juice is more acid than vinegar). BTW, lime juice is good in Annie's Salsa is good too.
- use one of my own jars of crushed tomatoes for the tomato sauce her recipe lists?
I think a lot of us use our homemade sauce in place of canned tomato sauce (I'm pretty sure Annie does as well). I've never tried using crushed tomatoes in place of sauce, so I don't know if there are any safety/density issues with that.
- Can some in quarts instead of pints? (If so, how long?)
Nope. There are no official "Canning God" approvals for canning salsa in quarts (for any recipe that I've ever seen, not just Annie's.)

"If you will be cooking it in other recipes, a hard boil for 10 minutes is required." I also read on the USDA site where that will kill the spores. So, in that case, why WOULDN'T it be safe to re-process?

First, the hard boil recommendation is just that - a last ditch safety measure. It isn't recommended that one rely on it for safety that should have been done otherwise, ok? Further, testing done using it proves that while a hard boil will kill some spores, it won't destroy any toxins that may have been produced by those spores in the food.

Improperly processed foods, older than 24 hours, cannot be reprocessed with any degree of safety because sufficient time has passed to allow for the development of potentially harmful bacteria and toxins which may or may not be killed by the re-processing. Re-processing isn't the same degree of heat and time as the hard boil. Then you would sit them on the shelf and those contaminants would continue to grow in the jars.

24 hours is the allowed limit. Sorry. You'll find many discussions here about this.

personal preference... is the consistency better in one, etc. Which do different people prefer, and why?

Better? That's a matter of personal taste and opinion. We happen to prefer PC salsa in our house but many don't like the smushier ;) texture - they prefer the firmer, chunkier texture that comes from BWB. All you can do is try both and see which you prefer.

NCHFP claims the PC tomato products are "more nutrients retained" - can't say for sure but we find the brighter color more appealing.

Dave

PS: I agree with Malna on the salsa questions and please note that while you can always go to smaller jars (with the same processing times) you can't ever safely go to larger jars than called for in the recipe.

Okay. That makes sense.

As for my question regarding using tomato sauce/crushed tomatoes for Annie's recipe... I guess I'm honestly unsure what the difference is! Is it only how long it was boiled down? ie: tomato sauce is boiled down longer than crushed tomatoes?

I suppose I have another question. This recipe on the National Center for Home Food Preservation's website doesn't include the addition of any acid! After reading so much about how it's always necessary... I'm REALLY curious to know what it is about this recipe that is different... especially because of all the low-acid veggies it adds! (Or is the acid directions in here somewhere and I totally missed it.)

Spaghetti Sauce without Meat

* 30 lbs tomatoes
* 1 cup chopped onions
* 5 cloves garlic, minced
* 1 cup chopped celery or green pepper
* 1 lb fresh mushrooms, sliced (optional)
* 4-1/2 tsp salt
* 2 tbsp oregano
* 4 tbsp minced parsley
* 2 tsp black pepper
* 1/4 cup brown sugar
* 1/4 cup vegetable oil

Yield: About 9 pints

Please read Using Pressure Canners before beginning. If this is your first time canning, it is recommended that you read Principles of Home Canning.

Procedure: Caution: Do not increase the proportion of onions, peppers, or mushrooms. Wash tomatoes and dip in boiling water for 30 to 60 seconds or until skins split. Dip in cold water and slip off skins. Remove cores and quarter tomatoes. Boil 20 minutes, uncovered, in large saucepan. Put through food mill or sieve. Saute onions, garlic, celery or peppers, and mushrooms (if desired) in vegetable oil until tender. Combine sauteed vegetables and tomatoes and add remainder of spices, salt, and sugar. Bring to a boil. Simmer uncovered, until thick enough for serving. At this time the initial volume will have been reduced by nearly one-half. Stir frequently to avoid burning. Fill jars, leaving 1-inch headspace. Adjust lids and process according to the recommendations in Table 1 or Table 2, depending on the method of canning used.

Here is a link that might be useful: If you want to see it right from the source, or read the processing times, click here.

Acidification is required in "plain" tomato products.
I believe it has to do with the variability in acid content.
(i.e., they can't test everyone's individual tomatoes to determine acidity).

The recipe above was probably tested with lower acid types to ensure it would be safe no matter what.

The guidelines are published after extensive testing. Many are typical "governmental CYA". They won't say it's safe unles they've done the testing. They tell people NOT to do things that they haven't tested. Yes, there are probably safe ways to "can salsa in quarts" for example, but because no testing has been done, they recommend "NO quarts".
Clear as mud?

So, there are times when the information seems to conflict like adding acid to plain tomatoes, but not to tomatoes with low acid ingredients added. It's because this ONE recipe has been tested. They aren't recommending "free reign" with ingredients and quantities, but are willing to ensure the safety of this one.

That's why it's important to stick to tested recipes.

The risk factor is high when people get "creative". The government is always going to err on the side of caution.

A couple of other comments from above:
I think the difference between 'sauce' and 'crushed' is texture and thickness. Sauce would be smooth and thicker, Crushed would still have some chunks of tomato with a more watery sauce.

And, you mentioned that your pressure canner isn't big enough to do quarts. That is another concern. You need a canner (not cooker) that is large enough to fit 4 quarts, or it doesn't function adequately for canning.

You can cook in a canner, but sometimes you can't can in a cooker. :+) say that fast five timessize>

Lastly, you mentioned that you can put enough water in your canner to cover quarts. I hope you're not pressure canning with water covering quarts. There should just be a couple of inches in the bottom for Pressure canning.
If you are using the same pot for water bath, then I misunderstood what you wrote.

Deanna

Yes, we know. ;) It is a question that comes up often and you'll find past discussions here about it if you wish to review them. Dr. Elizabeth Andress from NCHFP has posted on it in the past.

NCHFP offers a few pressure canned only, tomato based recipes that require no added acid but they are allowed only because they have been extensively tested, re-tested, and approved. This is one of them. Basically what they did is adapt those few recipes from USDA. Thus the statement at the bottom: "This document was adapted from the "Complete Guide to Home Canning," Agriculture Information Bulletin No. 539, USDA, revised 1994. Reviewed 2006."

However, they do make it clear that the testing on this particular recipe and the few other approved ones does NOT translate over to any other tomato recipes where added acid is called for.

When the new guidelines finally come out later this year, this is one of the items many of us expect to have fallen by the wayside. ;)

Believe me, I perfectly understand your desire to avoid the acid requirement - many do and we have gone through all sorts of arguments and discussions here about it. But it is a battle you can't win. We can offer citric acid as an alternative to lemon juice and some prefer it. Or lime juice in salsas as an alternative to lemon juice or vinegar but the added acid itself cannot be safely eliminated. Sorry.

Dave

PS: ie: tomato sauce is boiled down longer than crushed tomatoes?

Sauce is much more pureed/liqued than crushed. Crushed is very chunky. Does that help?

Thanks, Deanna... and I wasn't clear enough about the water covering.

I've got a pressure CANNER. It can hold 7 quarts, and has plenty of instructions for pressure canning 7 quarts.

It also says that it can be used to BWB pints, but not quarts. I'm simply curious as to why not. It's just barely deep enough to cover quarts with 1" of water for BWB canning. Sure, some of the boiling water would splash over if I didn't cover it up... but as long as 1" of boiling water stays over the top, I thought it would be okay. That's what I was asking.

Thanks!

Dave...

Yeah, I think I've read through every discussion on this site in the last few days. A LOT of it makes no sense, when taken with other information... unless you look at it simply as in "if you want to make 100% sure you're safe, then you have to use the recipes that have been proven to be safe regardless of how much sense they make."

I'm going to throw out to salsa... I've decided that. But I'm trying to determine my risk-factor comfort level for the jars of crushed tomatoes. I fully realize that the rules say I should toss them... but the other CDC "rule" makes me think I'm more than safe to cook them once I open them. You know... the one that says, "Because the botulism toxin is destroyed by high temperatures, persons who eat home-canned foods should consider boiling the food for 10 minutes before eating it to ensure safety." After all... if that will "ensure" safety, then why worry? But then, by the same token, if that will "ensure" safety, then why do they recommend adding acid to begin with? ::shrugs::

But this is something that only I can decide. At least I know all the rules now.

Thanks everyone.

A LOT of it makes no sense, when taken with other information... unless you look at it simply as in "if you want to make 100% sure you're safe, then you have to use the recipes that have been proven to be safe regardless of how much sense they make."

I'm sorry you see it that way. I think we do try to be consistent insofar as possible. And we have several formally trained food scientists and extension agents who participate and have taught us much. Plus many of the regular participants have taken and teach the extension classes in safe home food preservation not to mention having years of experience. Over 40+ years myself canning on the farm. Same for the wife. But we still learn new things every season.

But part of the confusion or lack of "sense" may result from comparing apples and oranges. CDC isn't USDA and NCHFP. Got a question on communicable disease and I'll defer to CDC every time. ;)

But when it comes to home food preservation then NCHFP is considered THE authority - even over much of the USDA literature. USDA even concedes that point. They are still allow for litmus paper testing which has been labeled unsafe for decades. ;)

It is kind of like canning books. A recipe from a canning book published in 1976 says one thing, 1985 another, 1996 yet another and soon 2008 even more new ones. Yet folks still want to use those old canning books and can't understand why they are no longer approved. It was good enough for Grandma...attitude.

Granted, we tend to bend over backwards here on the side of safety. Most of us think it would be irresponsible to do otherwise. But it is necessary because there is tons of unsafe canning info out there on the web and it honestly can't be compared to the quality of the info shared here.

Be safe. ;)

Dave

Katie, the problem I see with boiling stuff to degrade the botulinum toxin is the potential for cross-contamination. Most foods would stick if you didn't stir them frequently, but then you're not boiling the spoon for 10 minutes, and if it's going in and out you might be reintroducing still-potent toxin that was hiding in safety on the spoon. If you use a new spoon for every stir you still might get toxin on your sponge and your hand. Maybe I'm being too paranoid, but since this is the most toxic substance known, I don't want to mess with it.

As for BWB in your canner, I say go for it. One of my BWB pots will just barely cover the jars sometimes (pints + half-pints on top, I think was the limit), and I just let it splash out a little, making sure the level stays high. I have an electric kettle in case I need to add boiling water (hot water would kill the boil and mess up the processing time).

Melissa

The spaghetti sauce recipe on the NCHFP doesn't call for added acid -- like Dave said, maybe this is an older recipe that has been approved for so long that it's just still hanging around and will be eliminated with the next update in recommendations. I've been using the NCHFP "spaghetti sauce without meat" recipe, eliminating the low-acid veggies and the oil, and canning that according to their processing directions (25 minutes at 10 pounds) for my all-purpose tomato sauce. I find it bizarre that a recipe that has you ADDING low-acid veggies and oils results in a cannable product without acid when they don't have any recipes for plain tomatoes canned without acid. It's just strange. I actually just emailed the NCHFP to ask about this; I'll report back if I get any clarification.

"Lastly, you mentioned that you can put enough water in your canner to cover quarts. I hope you're not pressure canning with water covering quarts. There should just be a couple of inches in the bottom for Pressure canning.
If you are using the same pot for water bath, then I misunderstood what you wrote. "

Deanna,
Can you please clarify for me? When you put 2-3 inches of water in the bottom of the PC, by the time you add 7 quarts for a full load of tom's, the water is just about or is barely covering the jars...please tell me you don't add the water AFTER you load your canner....oh my would I be in trouble..."been doing it that way for years" (grin) Thank you!
Kim

Just to re-iterate, if botulism spores are present and active, boiling will kill the toxins, making the product safe for immediate consumption. However, boiling does not kill the spores. They can still be present and are a risk. The long-boil method is a way to salvage foods and it's one reason old-timers survived using open-kettle and boiling water bath methods for low-acid product. They liked their veggies mushy.

10 minutes boiling is sufficient for some things but other products like spinach require 20 minutes.

OK, the acidity question. We know tomatoes can be low-acid or just on the border, so acidifying makes it possible to boiling water bath. However, it's not just a safety issue, it's also a quality issue. By acidifying even pressure canned tomatoes you can keep the processing time shorter, ensuring better quality. I mean, theoretically, if you wanted to pressure can your tomatoes without acid and use the time for green beans or corn, you could do it, but I doubt you'd be happy with the results.

The spaghetti sauce presents different issues. These things aren't random and I doubt the recipe will be changed. First, texture is less of an issue than it is with whole tomatoes, so you're not going to significantly improve quality by acidifying. Sauces are long-cooked anyway. They also have less water activity (aw) due to evaporation. Botulism spores like water, low-acid, an anaerobic environment, so all these factors are in play, not just pH.

Secondly, if you did decide to acidify that spaghetti sauce to compensate for the mushrooms, the other veggies, the oil, you wouldn't have a spaghetti sauce any more. You'd have a pickle because that's how much acid it'd take.

Carol