Whenever this question comes up for discussion (which is often) - whether oil can be used or not - we always take care to point out "with the exception of a couple of recipes". This is one of those few approved exceptions.

In this specific case it has been well-tested and processing times adjusted accordingly.

Dave

I'm sure with spaghetti sauce, and other popular products, questions do get repeated often. I'm so blasted confused anymore, Im not hesitating to ask. I WANT to be certain. Dave, the recipe says vegetable oil. Can you elaborate on oils and why one would be fine, others not fine and why?

Oil is not recommended for recipes without testing.

So the point is the NCHFP recipe has been tested with oil and it doesn't matter if it's olive oil or vegetable oil or what kind of vegetable oil. When that recipe was first developed, I doubt olive oil was a common as it is now.

It's not that oil can't be used in recipes. But it has to be a recipe that has been tested to allow for the insulating effect of the oil via longer processing and/or additional acid.

The home-canner can't do that but the NCHFP, Jarden corp. and others who have testing facilities and food scientists on staff can.

Carol

I am certainly not doubting this organization whatsoever. I just would like to understand how this organization says to use it, meanwhile safety guidelines in most my books say not to. Is it that Ncfhp knows the correct proportions of all other ingredients to use for the correct ph balance?

USDA/NCHFP is the lab that does all the testing except for the commercial sales food testing which is done by FDA. All the other books etc. either base their info on those guidelines or ignore them. But NCHFP is the recognized authority so when in doubt or conflict their's is the opinion that counts.

No need to hesitate but please don't forget the search feature either. :) There aren't any silly questions but honestly, there aren't any new ones either so the odds are the answer is already here somewhere so it never hurts to do a search first. Also don't forget all the FAQs at NCHFP as they cover all the basics.

The rancidity issues aside, oils/fats, in general, aren't allowed because 1) they are low-acid and 2) they insulate any bacteria and prevent the heat from killing them. So unless the recipe with the oil in it has been cultured and tested for bacterial growth at 6 week, 3 month and 6 month intervals etc. to monitor growth and a processing time determined to eliminate that bacterial growth you would just be guessing at the processing time required.

The molecules of different oil/fats attach to bacteria in different ways and provide different levels of insulation. Vegetable oils, as opposed to any animal fats, allows for faster heat penetration due to their molecular structure. OK?

PLease keep in mind that confusion is magnified 10 fold when one tries to buck the guidelines. Or when one tries to understand all the underlying science behind them without any formal training, much less a degree in food science. Certification classes are available and that is where one gets all the background info, much of the science. But for most home canners it boils down to just trusting and accepting the guidelines or choosing to ignore them. That is their choice.

Dave

I did do the search. I always search. But I end up with questions people post with other questions infused in them. Discussions go off the main topic. And more questions arise, creating more confusion. When I'm doing something for myself, I want to be certain, and certain nothing has changed. Can't be too careful, right?

Thank you also Carol. I love the detailed explanations. Gives a person a starting point for researching things they wish to learn more about. I'm beginning to believe home canning should be banned until a person has been properly taught. Myself included. Hands on training with certified instructors. I can't imagine how much unsafe food has been made recently. The canning supplies and equipment and brand new people buying them has skyrocketed. I talk to merchants and they tell me how crazy it's become. How many idiots like me are out there?? Absolutely scary. And to think, I was once afraid of the sodium and preservative amounts in commercially canned foods.....
Wishing for classes to take in my area....

Remember, the NCHFP offers a free self-paced online home preserving course. It's a great place to start. Just scroll down the page until you find it.

Happy preserving,
Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: Self-Study Preserving Food at Home

Thank you Carol!! Because I have real crappy Internet on the PC, I wouldn't have considered doing this. Absolutly no high speed availsble where Im at (and I'm only 3 miles from town), and like everyone else in my county, we refuse to pay for equipment, installation AND monthly services for HALF the speed, AND a two year service commitment for other high speed options. For the past couple years Ive done nothing online. You can imagine my excitement when I upgradred my cell to a smart phone. It's a pain to do things even on my iPhone. But you can bet I will!!!!

My Gosh, thanks to all of you here who do what you do for us newbies. You're all like guardian angels or something. :-)

Ellen - have you contacted your state extension office about canning classes?

Dave

Dave, yes. Unfortunately the classes given were done back in March/April/May. I was perturbed by that. Who has produce to can in April??! AND, it was a series of classes, starting with pressure canning first. The last class was doing jams and jellies. Again, why would they do the easiest and safest classes last? And, sadly, the classes offered had been cancelled due to not enough interest. I had requested private paid for classes. But the instructor came from a different community.

I learned, early on, to NOT heed the advice from friends/family who have canned in the past. I've actually heard arguments happen from asking them questions because I inform of them that certain things are absolutely not done anymore, the changes from 20 years ago,etc. I'm horrified by some of the techniques people were advising me to do now. No one uses a pressure canner. People still use the oven. People still can their own recipes and water bath them. I think it's best for me to stick with everything current, and listen to NO ONE here who has past canning exerience. Yes, including my own mom.

Yeah the classes are usually offered during the off-season, during the winter and early spring, as that is when both the instructors and the class members have the free time to do it. All are too busy with their gardens and their own canning once things get into the canning season.

Here the order of the class content is determined by the topic interest of those who sign up. There are far more who want to learn about pressure canning - it is the 'hot' topic - than about jams.

Dave

100% understandable. In my business, I always have people wanting personal assistance, some just want free advice. That free advice, which I don't mind, requires an at home visit, gas for driving, a couple hours if my time, and at that time of year I'm working 16 -20 hours a day. It's just impossible. I also am raising 3 children under the age of 8. I have family members who make appointments with me just to get some time...

I guess most of us DIY people wish for a hands on class, then be able to go home and do a project immediately. If I'd have known of the classes, I'd have probably went to the grocery store and bought some produce to do what I learned that day. I'm obsessive when I want to learn something.

I am very grateful that it never worked out for me to get taught by those who offered to show me how to pressure can. I don't want any technique, or recipes or any shortcut from years ago. No way.

Remember, there are lots of products that can be made year-round. So after a lesson on pressure-canning go home and practice with dried beans. Cook up some whole chickens for the meat and can the broth. Buy some winter squash and can chunks.

A boiling water bath focusing on jams could be followed by practice with a winter marmalade or an apple jam. There are always options.

Although our impulse is to focus on the summer seasonals, there are foods to can in winter or spring also.

Carol

Oh you bet Carol!! Beans is one of those things I am waiting till winter for, as I will have to buy them in the store anyway. How did you read my mind?! :-)

I have frozen at least 100 pounds of blanched, seeded tomatoes for fall projects as well. Dehydrating herbs is a winter project with herbs I'll be growing in the greenhouse. I am not opposed to buying produce and canning it at home, no matter the price, for the experience. Everytime I do it, I learn and improve. In the past 20 years, I would purchase commercial flower seed year round, and grow many plants under grow lights in my home. When I say grow lights, I mean at one point and time I had 65 shop lights in my attic rooms. I would grow plants from seed to flower, and the plants never made it into the garden, because I would throw them out and start all over again. For the experience, practice, and skill. I would do this year round and I cannot tell you where I would be had I not done so. Years later, the greenhouse was built, and the rest is history. When I want to do something, nothing stops me. But doing things correctly slows down "gung ho" determination when it comes to food safety. Perfect practice makes perfect......