I'm with you. when I plant seeds in Oct.-Dec., I get wonderful seedlings to set out in spring. Seeds started after Feb.tend to poke along all summer for me.
Nina

Possibly the problem is just the genetics you choose. I plant in boxes mid April and set out the last week of May thru the 1st week of June. Just weeded these yesterday and see some of these youngsters going to 2-3 fans already. Around 75% at a minumum flower the 2nd summer of growing.. those that don't IMO aren't worth continuing with anyway.

One factor is the heat the southern genetics receive and how this affects long term selection. So why not choose genetics that fit your climate?

The whole reason why I grow from seed is to choose, among the progeny, what perform best in my area. Otherwise I would just buy the parents - it would in fact have been cheaper.

This being said I have plenty of seeds whose parentage is hard northern dormants, and they do no worse or no better, vegetatively, than the southern ones - at least for me, in my garden.

Oddly enough I have 4 monster seedlings, out of the 800 I planted, that really stand out. Although I started them late, in February, they are by far the hugest of the lot, including those started in late September 08. The common denominator? "Fame."

Last fall (2008)I started my own seedlings Dec 1. It was the first year I had crossed anything and /or started seeds. I planted out the seedlings all at the start of May. They are looking very good. Some are huge.
I bought some seeds at the end of January and start of February and started them immediately. They were put out in the garden at the same time. They all look awesome. I have about 800 as well.

Here are some single fans:

Here are some that are already clumps of up to 10 small fans.

I really can't believe how fast they have grown since May. I am now writing down some records of which ones made clumps and which ones stayed as single fans. Does genetics have anything to do with that?

I haven't seen any difference between the early ones and late ones. Most of the later ones looked smaller when I planted them in the garden but they have caught up. Obviously there is often a difference between Dips and Tets sizewise. It has been very dry here all summer - still is - but I have watered them a few times.

I have a question about daylily seedlings for those of you with more experience. I wasn't expecting clumps this year with my seedlings at all. My seedlings are planted fairly close together and this is throwing off the plan! I thought I would just get single fans this year that would get larger next year and maybe bloom. What does blooming depend on? -the size of the fan, the maturity? I am thinking the seedling clumps I have of smaller fans probably won't bloom next summer. What has been your experience?

Some seedlings will start to bloom around 9 months; whuile others might take 12 months. Seems age combined with genetics effects blooming for us.

The seeds I started last Dec & Jan looked pretty small come spring compared to some of the other seedlings I was seeing on here. They have improved a lot since I put them in the ground.

I don't know how people get them to bloom in 9 to 10 months. I didn't fertilize mine last winter as I was afaid to burn them. I'll be fertilizing this winter. At least feeding plant food.

I also think I didn't have enough lights on them last winter. So I have upgraded my lights to shop lights with plant bulbs.

Swontgirl your seedling clumps are they dips? I've heard some dips tend to multiply quicker than tets. Just a thought. I know mine are all tets and they are still just single fans.

Andrea

Thanks Andrea!

You are right. When I checked my records all of the ones that look the most like a clump are dips. I have many that are a single large fan with a baby fan or two but the ones that look like a clump of mostly the same size fans are all dips. I really wasn't expecting this to happen.
My seedlings weren't all that big either when I planted them. They were tall and spindly. Then when I planted them alot of the outside leaves died off. But they had good roots and grew really well. I did fertilize them with a weak liquid fertilizer indoors. My husband was sure I would set them way back after planting out because I had anywhere from 1 to 6 in a styrofoam cup but with the promix I used they were really east to separate. I had used tall cups and the roots were long but they came apart quite well with no damage. I think the roots were really the key to them getting going outside so well. I don't think I could handle having to look after them all fall if I started them that early. I was ready to get them outdoors at the start of April as it was and did start hardening some off then. I had to bring them in quite often but it was still better than having so many in the basement and fighting off the fungus gnats. I have one of those shelf units with the plastic cover and it worked great. My seedlings were ready for outdoors.

lilinut - is that 9 months from starting the seeds indoors in the fall or outdoors in the spring? I really can't imagine getting daylily seedlings to bloom that fast here. I'll be happy if mine bloom next summer but I am not even counting on that for all of them.

We start planting seeds 1 per 16oz beer cup the 3rd week of November and usually have green starting to show the first week of Dec.

Transplanting in the Spring usually starting mid April here using a bulb planter which makes a perfect hole to plop the seedling into.

We start to see seedlings bloom early August when everything is winding down elsewhere in the garden. We even set pods on the most interesting seedlings through the 1st week of Sept and get good seeds before the snow hits.

On our website you can see our seedling room in our basement and photos of a seedling bed blooming at 10 months after planting. Usually about 45-50% will bloom for us. WATER is the best fertilizer for daylilies.

Cheers

Here is a link that might be useful: Briarhill Daylilies

"Oddly enough I have 4 monster seedlings, out of the 800 I planted, that really stand out. Although I started them late, in February, they are by far the hugest of the lot, including those started in late September 08. The common denominator? "Fame." " writes uroboros5.

I'd suggest.. plant size is not always a reliable indicator of a good fit to one's climate. YES often it is.. and is NICE to see.. let one sees plants that are GREAT at making FANS.. but low on flowering ability. I had a plant make 5-6 mature fans in it's 2nd summer of growth in z4.. yet make only ONE scape... this under crowded conditions too. Kept a piece to look at.. but I doubt it's worth the effort.

Another suggestion: I don't take any stock in a few individuals that show good growth vigor from a common ev parent. One way to view it is said ev is just a 'quiet parent'.. allowing the 'other side' to dominate. Can be said for any parent.. do they instill their GOOD characters?? YES it's something to watch.. but sans personal bias.

I've often thought if Mendel would have used tet daylilies instead of peas he mighta been a serious drinker...... :)

@ northerndaylily

I am not suggesting that large fan means the plants are better suited to my climate - they have not gone through any winter yet!

I know there are many things to consider; but right now all I see is leaves!

lilynut:Bruce/Tanya: Don't know which one of you is posting but I did visit your website and your garden pics are wonderful. I see a greenhouse.Are you moving out of the basement to a greenhouse this year?

Julia

It's Bruce posting...English is Tanya's second language. She is from Belarus (Belorussian) and isn't happy posting as she worries about her English.

We were hoping to get the Greenhouse finished this year, but the funds just aren't there. Probably a good thing as it will be expensive to keep that bugger warm in the Winter!

We decided to finish making beds this year and we accomplished eliminating 95% of the grass in the backyard. LOL

Hopefully next year we can finish the GH and small stream into a 500 gallon pond by the front door. So many ideas with little time and even less money!

Cheers

"I know there are many things to consider; but right now all I see is leaves!" writes uroboros5.

YES.. and plant habit.. which comes FIRST with me.

I'd be very interested to hear how you sort out sdlngs to keep. Is any character.. for instance.. a cull no matter the face? How much do you expect in the 1st bloom season? That sorta thing.........

How I am going to cull will depend on the cross.

I bought most crosses with the specific intent of making sib crosses or even crossing back to the parent (when I own it). I don't expect anything of value to come through in the first generation. In those cases, I will make seeds, destroy the all the sibs, and then select in the following generations for horticultural merit. And by this I mean tall scapes, topped with large, flat and abundant flowers - good foliage, too. A plant with good proportions. I know it's against the trend, but I'm not hung up on branching, it's not the end-all and be-all. I think a high scape:fan ratio is a valuable statistic, too. I have a seedling that doesn't branch at all, and is awash in well distributed blooms, great shape, great color... scapes like crazy (its flaw: very weak, skimpy foliage).

Other crosses will be ready for selection next summer. To give an example, I think "Born To Run" has a superb floral face and color. I actually bought "Born To Run" to compare it to all the seedlings I have grown in order to have a gold standard. To know if "Born To Run" is improved upon, I must have that plant...

So to condense all this rambling, what you select depends on the cross.

Well written uroboros5.

I do very similar on some sdlngs.. sib crosses usually with tender ev's x hardy dorms on the tet side. Yet this season I kept very little of these as the overall grade for the cross/s wasn't enough to warrant the space. Plant habit wasnt enough.. and flower quality didn't impress. One could isolate characters using the better individuals yet I felt the overall drag too high given my space limitations.

Far north I am not aware of any big emphasis on scapes... stats vs what I see here don't match. My low GDD figure in z4 limits what the 'high heat' genetics can produce here. Agreed scapes + per fan is a very valuable character.. I will keep a sdlng just due to that feature.

Can I ask what type of culture you employ.. do you use a greenhouse?

I'm not as far north as you are, I have no problem with evergreens surviving. Flower quality is another story.

I don't use a greenhouse, and no winter protection of any kind. I do make a lot of amendments to the soil, being on clay. I start my beds with literally 4 feet of wood chips, chopped grass, shredded leaves... mixed with top soil and peat moss.

Well we kind of got off topic but I will bring it back. I am sure not seeing any difference between my early and late started seedlings. Yesterday I was out looking at my seedlings and I discovered 2 that have a flower scape. One is from my own experimants last summer - Strawberry Candy x Ever Delightful - tets that were started indoors at the start of December last year. They other I bought - Early Alibi X Coral Taco - a dip that was started Feb 3 this year after I received the seeds. I don't know if they will bloom - we have already had one frost last Friday night that touched some of our lowlying corn but I am hoping if we have a few more nice days maybe!!! I am sure more confident that I will at least get some blooms next year.
Debbie