I'm one of those newbies, and I gotta say, I so very much appreciate folks like you who throw me a few things now and then.

I've gotten good at a few things over the years, but gardening is new for me. So I'll take all the help I can get. And I've actually found that even my little newbie trades have a few takers every so often. And because there are folks here who have given to me, even when they didn't want anything I had to offer, I offer my little newbie trades free if someone doesn't have anything to offer simply for the karma of it. I've gotten a few takers, which made me feel better for giving than my little seed packets could have possibly felt received.

And in my various other endeavors, people have similarly done well by me, often when I couldn't reciprocate immediately, so I've felt bound and determined to always throw my every extra to those starting out, whether it was a freelance contract or tomato seeds.

One day, you'll be one of those pros, have no fear. And until then, I agree, it's awfully nice to share other's wisdom and bounty.

Hope you're safe and dry.

susannah

Wow. I guess I'm at the bottom of the foodchain for newbie trading, since I haven't even attended a swap yet.

Hope to. I'll be there with sorry little newbie offerings, if invited, or maybe I'll just stay home, because I won't feel "worthy".

Good luck with the storm.

imatallun, you never stay home. I received so much when I had nothing to trade and these people are priceless jewels. thanks to fawnridge I have some gorgeous rare crotons and he is the one who taught me to appreciate them, Lisa gave me so many fruit trees and stuff that I could never repay her. A lot of people here have helped me acquire some nice things and I now purchase rare and exotic seeds since that is all I have been able to afford and it may take me a few years but I also will have a lot of nice stuff. I work for a local amusement park here in Orlando and I am allowed to take some cuttings. If I have anything you guys want I am willing to share with you. Linda

Scents from heaven, I am interested in some of your gorgeous rare crotons. I have lots of plants and perhaps we could do some trading? Christine

I am not up to bihai's or fawnrige's level, but I do have some interesting plants in my garden.
I rarely ship plants now due to the rising cost but my garden is always open to anyone that wants to come by.
I am always dividing and trimming so there is always plenty to share.
Here are some flowers from my garden.

Here's what I did and it may help you to get started. I bought tropical plants at walmart and traded them wtih northerners who can't get them in their local garden centers. These folks are growing some fabulous plants in their greenhouses and were very happy with the trade. Of course you have to calculate whether shipping them is worth it or not. I found cuttings curbside during our horticultural waste days. Growing things from seeds or even trading palms seeds can get you great different seeds. Over the years I've bought very few plants. I went to Cindee's swap because it was close enough and got a nice assortment of plants.
Make a list of what you have and somebody may want it. Post it on the Plant Exchange forum or the Tropical Forum too
Good luck

Thank you, Scents from Heaven, for your words of encouragement.

Ariel, that is a wonderful flower arrangement. Its so impressive that you grew and arranged them so beautifully. I don't make it to Tampa very often, but would love to visit your garden one day.

Barbcoleus, thanks for the excellent advice. I never thought of trading palm seeds or other plants on the plant exchange or tropical forum.

I am just so tickled pink that we have power, and I'm glad all of you do too. Sorry I was whiny last night when I posted my response. Chalk it up to apprehension about Fay.

I've learned so much since joining this forum and greatly value your kindness, advice and encouragement.

Thanks again!

Marilyn

I don't do many trades but swaps are great. You can get all kinds of cuttings/seeds/plants. I can walk through my garden and point out all the many things I've gotten at swaps. (i'm trying to keep a record now!)
Beautiful arrangement Ariel...talent in arranging and growing.

I know what y'all mean. I am a newbie gardener although I have lurked on here for a while. I am thankful to a few ladies who are exchanging seeds with me when all I have to offer is Marigold seeds. I am working on it though. There are some things that I didn't even know you could get seeds from. It's amazing. Thanks to all the wonderful people on here. I have learned so much from everyone.
Joy

I am def. a newbie. I have many things ordered through catalogs ..and I will attend a plant swap in Oct. recently I visited Linda's garden and she loaded me up with cuttings and some plants. I am sure by this next year I will be able to have more to offer others.

I have all these palmettos in my back yard that we are trying to get rid of. I think I will put a few in pots for future use. I had someone from up north that wanted one.. they are like weeds here but decent for others. I was so happy that I was able to find a small one to send... which if you have ever seen a palmetto.. even the small ones are huge. I had a hard time finding a box!

Ariel, that is a beautiful bouquet. I see items in it that I am growing and until now I haven't seen them as something to pick. I enjoy growing flowers for cutting too but I have been keeping my arangements too simple. Do you ever use a flower preservative? ...homemade or store bought?

Since my name was taken in vain, so to speak (ROFLMAO) I guess I will hop in here and speak my piece about trading.

Yes, I do have a ton of really neat stuff growing both on my property and in my greenhouse.

But, I have been collecting plants for many years (since about 1986,when we lived in California) and have built this collection up through sometimes spending BIG BUCKS for initial starts of rare or unusual plants. I have also been on the receiving end of gifts of rare and unusual plants from friends, and have traded for some very nice things as well.

I would not have been able to trade for the more rare and unusual things that I have, WITHOUT ALSO HAVING SOMETHING RARE OR UNUSUAL TO TRADE IN RETURN.

I am not saying that I require "a ransom" for my stuff. But I am saying that I will not take a hosta (one of the most common trade offers I get) for something like an Anthurium regale. Nor will I usually trade for something I ALREADY HAVE (although there are exceptions to this rule)

My dilemma is this:

I don't get to go to the trades where I am most likely to come into contact with the people who would have the types of plants that I am most interested in adding to my collection (ie, those people in South FL like Fawnridge and others). Its too far for me to drive, with the other family commitments and personal commitments I usually have going. So I depend on mail trades, or on the lucky find at a local garden shop, or maybe the lucky find at more "local" sales like Kanapaha, USF, etc. Which I still have to pay for.

ALso, the trading pool on Gardenweb has shrunk dramatically. Many folks who were fixtures here for years and had really cool stuff to trade got bored, tired or whatever and left Gardenweb, especially after iVillage took it over. These folks also got tired of being offered stuff like black eyed susan seeds for stuff like Jade Vines, orchids, and unusual plants. You may scoff and think I am exaggerating, but, this has actually happened to me (and others I know). They also got tired of being stiffed on trades, either by people who never send their end or send stuff that is not up to par or not what was offered or discussed. That's why I always try to post a picture and ask that others send pics as well. Someone recently offered me a Tapeinochilus in trade, but when she sent a photo, it was a Costus barbatus that she actually had. Pretty large diff there.

When you consider the time, effort and MONEY it takes to grow and nurture (greenhouse heat, greenhouse work hours, fertilizer, bug control, water,) propagate, and house extra plants for trade, and the escalating cost of shipping now, its just not worth it to some folks to do it much anymore.

I will certainly trade when I am offered something that I really want, and I always try to offer something that's really a fair trade when I want something from someone else, but otherwise, its kind of a wasted effort some of the time.

I have an extremely limited growing space for new things, so I have to be very choosey. I don't have a huge zone 10A or 10B outdoor growing space where I can plant all this stuff. I am in the North part of the state. My tropical paradise is limited basically to 1730 square feet in the greenhouse and the sunroom in the house. Everything else that goes outside goes out with the understanding that its either a very nice unusual tropical plant that will most likely end up being an ANNUAL and have to be replaced, or it has to be tough enough to return here as a perennial.

I'd love to have more of certain things, like new varieties of Hedychiums, but let's face it, I can get a 3 gallon container of Hedychium coronarium or Kahili ginger (which are the 2 most common Hedychiums I am always offered in trade for stuff like Etlingeras, Taccas, philodendrons etc) for about $7.99 here. As if I didn't have tons of them ALREADY growing out in the yard. No one will part with their more unusual named varieties. Only their overage of common ones.

That is why its easier for me sometimes to just toss cuttings and extras on the compost pile, of grow them here knowing that they may be annuals.

I know a person who has a huge collection of sansevieria, including many exceedingly rare ones. People looked at this person's trade list and always wanted to trade them for the rare variegated ones, like variegated Mason's Congo which can cost $100 a leaf for a highly variegated specimen, and which is very very slow growing, putting out maybe one new leaf every 15-18 months if you are lucky (at least that is how slow MINE is). He always got offered really common stuff that you could pick up at any garden center or box store for his rare plants, and when he refused some people actually get mad and told him off. Who needs that?

He got so disgusted with random unknown folks that "tradelist surf" and email him out of the blue to ask him to trade rare plants for postage etc that he removed his trade list.

I am removing my tradelist from Gardenweb for the same reason, and converting my inventory to word documents. When I have something to trade, I will post it to the appropriate forum(s) and hope for the best.

I try to trade with people I have traded with in the past, and have had some great traders. Barbcoleus is one, Annafl is another, Veronika is one. There are several others. Of course I will also trade with other people I haven't traded with before, but again, it has to be worth it.

I recently made a trade with someone who also lives in FL. This was not from Gardenweb but from another board. She had orchids "for sale or trade" and wanted some bromeliads I had. Her orchids were not that uncommon. Her sale prices were $10 per division. We worked out a trade, I sent her TWO boxes of almost mature bromeliad offsets, large plants, 5 different ones, for 4 different orchids. The orchids she sent were so miniscule they fit in a box smaller than a shoebox. Except for ONE They were ROOTLESS, tiny divisions that are literally YEARS away from becoming anywhere near blooming size (providing I can get they to re-root and grow).

All I can say is, yes, I felt the trade was very uneven. But if I had been one of the people who actually BOUGHT them from her, I would have felt worse. Lesson learned, I guess.

So please don't think I am mean or stingy. I am really NOT. I have been trading plants actively since about 1992-1993 and have traded hundreds of times. I will gladly trade again, for the right trade.

Thank you for all the compliments, and no I do not add anything special to the water.

Bihai, I don't think anyone was try to say anything negative about you. I believe I have trade with you before and you were great to deal with.
All the points you made are very true. Many people have contacted me wanting free plants or a very unfair trade in their favor. And I have been stiffed in too many trades. Which can definitely leave a bad taste in your mouth.

I think people get caught up in a trading frenzy. They see all the plants other people are growing and want instant gratification, instead of taking it step by step and building the garden and their collection. I know I would love to have everything on my wish list right away. But at the same time I do not think I would appreciate the plant as much. I think part of the fun is the hunt and wait for the plant. But that is me.

Bihao, you mean you wouldn't trade me a rare orchid for a teeny tiny coleus I picked up at the box store? *lol* I know what you mean. I am sprouting some rare seeds that take 6 months to sprout. I see one poking its little head up and I placed them in seed medium back in Feb. It will take a year for them to be big enough to look like the plant they are. Those are plants I would want something equal in trade. I am wlling to give away ectra regular stuff I have and I am always willing to help someone who is new. I fel they need a helping hand and since you wonderful peole gav unselfishly to me in the beginning that I wish to return the favor to other newcomers.

Giahi, your post was not inaprpriate and I did not see any harm in what you said. Some people will do anything to acquire what they want that the stiff you or trade cheap stuff for exspensive stuff. I also understand your frustation and reasons for removin your trade list.

Guys, you are still all welcome to come to swaps whether you have anything or no. Believe me things will go home with you and you are alwaus welcome. Fawnridge's swaps are the highlight of the year. If you have not replied to his swap a que call and wish go, please respond to him. He lives in a gated community and you need his special invitation to get in. It also lets him know how many will be there so he can smoke the appropriate amountof food. I will get back with some of you newbies personally within the next five days or so. Linda

Thanks, Linda! I actually have a couple of varieties of broms and hoya cuttings to trade that were part of my inherited landscape from the late 1950's. I went through the entire alphabet on bromeliads from the Royal Brom. Society and couldn't identify it. Ricky probably could, and then I can name it properly for posting on exchanges. If it ever frigging stops raining here, sigh, I'll post a pic.

Thanks again,
m

Bihai,

Please understand that at least some of us newbies aren't trying to stiff you for expensive plants. Many of us moved into homes that already had neat or even old and rare plants in the yard, and we're propogating them. I think you and I talked about a giant heliconia awhile back. I'm still hoping to dig a few and bring it to Ricky's trade, but I'm sure it's not rare and probably wouldn't be worth a trade for you. I respond to any trade offer that seems to ask for something I might have, mostly in hopes of sharing, not of taking advantage.

And I'm sure there are a lot of folks willing to take advantage. I guess I'm lucky that I'm newbie enough to not attract any of that. But really, some of the newbies are just newbie enough to offer what we have, knowing some of it might be kind of cool - we didn't plant it, we just inherited it.

I, for example, have two of the cool crotons that Ricky is offering. I've been rooting them and spreading them around my neighborhood for a year now and never seen them in a big box so I know they're kind of neat. But they don't cost me anything to trade, so I wouldn't consider trying to offer it for something fancy or expensive. They're crotons, for goodness sakes, you can look at them and know they certainly didn't cost me money. But I have no idea what kind of cost or effort are involved in propagating some things... so I offer. And I'm not offended if you're not interested because I assume you know the value of your plants better than I do.

Hope I haven't offended, and if you're still interested in that giant heliconia, I'll give you one, if I get around to digging it and if you're at Ricky's trade. I need to cut back the whole thing back, so it's time to clip and dig, and then clip and dig some more, and it really is pretty, but probably not expensive. And I'm newbie enough, I'll be happy with a trade of something that is also just pretty, not expensive.

Susannah

Susannah,
I'm not offended in the least.
Maybe you guys missed the ROFLMAO early on in my message.

I only responded to this thread at all because I was named directly by the original poster in the very first sentence of her post. As in "people like Bihai".

I know that the whole world isn't out to stiff me in a trade. In the big scheme of things, I am so not that important. That was not the point of my reply.

The point is, maybe I failed to make it, trading is something that is supposed to make BOTH parties happy. You should be happy with just the IDEA of the plant you will be receiving in the trade, It should be something you WANT, or NEED for your growing area. It doesn't necessarily have to be RARE, even if what you are offering IS rare.

If someone wants something I have available, and offers me things that I either
A--don't want
B--can't grow due to space or other limitation
C--already have
D--already grew for a while and discarded/eliminated for whatever reason

then there is no point in trying to pursue a trade with that person.

Many people offer me unusual CANNAS and don't understand why I don't jump on it. When I explain that here where I live, I am plagued by leaf roller caterpillars that shred cannas like paper shredders, and that I don't spray Thuricide because it also kills butterfly and moth caterpillars indiscriminately and that is against the Bihai creedo of gardening, they either don't believe me, or think that I think their cannas are somehow "not worthy" of whatever they want of mine and that I am just making up an excuse.

I am certain that your giant heliconia is probably an extremely nice variety of Caribaea or Bihai x Caribaea (now you know where my screen name comes from, a species of heliconia), probably something nice like Purpurea or Lobster Claw II or whatever, but I have no desire to grow it. I grew many of these in the past, and I am done with the giant heliconias until I am reincarnated as a gardener born on the island of Maui to a wealthy family with a huge garden compound.

It would probably be a true gem or prize to another gardener in South FL or someone with a large greenhouse that isn't already packed full, but for myself, at one time I grew and propagated for sale over 40 different species and cultivars of heliconias. I bloomed all of them and grew them into fantastic stands of plants inside my greenhouse. I had the common rostrata that was 16-18 FEET TALL in a grove so that I could walk under the blooms hanging down from over my head. Banana Split, Bucky, Firebird, Chocolate Dancer, Tagami, Guapo, Collinsiana, Pedro Ortiz and tons of others... Heliconia Peachy Pink was my favorite. Sometimes I miss it.

But I have no desire to grow those large growers again, because they literally took over my greenhouse. I was still operating my nursery business then, and I decided to sell and trade them all away. I only kept one heliconia in the greenhouse: Heliconia angusta Yellow Christmas, because its smallish and a very slow grower. The others I kept (Nappi, Rostrata, etc) grow and bloom in containers that are mobile.

Now, thanks to the kindness of Veronika and a great trade we worked out, I also have one of my other favorite smaller slower growers, Heliconia episcopalis, and the most beautiful heliconia in history: ultra rare variegated Heliconia lemai.

When someone like me who is strictly a "mail trader" offers more unusual plants in trade, all I want is an offer that is
A--something of equal or near equal "unusual" stature
B--something I do not have or have not had in the past and already decided not to grow again

For me its a matter of limited space, and making the most of that space. Its not necessarily a matter of being overly picky, thinking my plants are "better than yours" or whatnot.

But it does irritate me when people stiff other people. I suppose that's why a lot of folks no longer mail trade but go to swaps like Ricky's. You can see what you get, meet the folks, make friends. I myself try to send large plants or large divisions, not tiny scraps, unless that is all that I have and then I make certain I say its a "small plant, small division or small cutting". But many folks do not adhere to the same rule.

I guess it's the Johnny Appleseed gene in my blood - I don't grow the stuff I trade with just to trade; I don't mind giving the plants away for nothing in return other than a smile. Bihai, I understand your point of view, don't get me wrong. You are a true collector whereas I'm just a gardener like most of the folks here. My feeling has always been to grow what I can grow and pass it around so that the species has a greater chance of survival and so that I can drive around the state and recognize some tree or plant that may have come from my garden. It's a different mindset that not everyone has adapted.

For the collector, whether it be stamps, beer mugs, or flora, each item in the inventory has a specific value; not so much in dollars and cents, but in terms of exchange - like value for like value. One of the areas we do cross paths is in not getting more of something we already have. I, for example, have no need of Monstera deliciosa - Swiss Cheese plant - as I have enough of them. However, if that's the only plant you've got to swap with for one of my rare Crotons, I'll just give you the Croton and tell you to give your plant to someone else.

I think the original poster's lament was a lack of plants to take to a swap for fear that everyone has them already.

Let me assure you and anyone else who feels this way that at a swap the real swapping is setup in advance and done before you know it. The rest of the plants that people bring, and this is going to be the majority, are given away (sometimes forcefully!) all day long. With the exception of a handful of plants that wither away in the heat or are "forgotten" and left on our driveway, everyone leaves with the same volume of plants they came with - just different ones. Odd, but it always seems to happen that way.

If you have Arbicola or Ficus hedge in pots, leave 'em home. But you'd be surprised at how many people would jump at the chance to get a nice 3 gallon Plumbago or Thyrallis in swap for a pot full of rare Cannas they'd just yanked out of their garden the day before. The value of a plant at a swap is the value the one who desires it places on it at that moment. Sure there are plant collectors at swaps, all of us are to some degree, but we are gardeners first, artists if you will, and if you have something we'd like in our floral painting we'll swap just about anything to get it!

I would caution you this, though, if you do have common plants that you are considering bringing to a swap, root them out and get them in at least 3 gallon cans so they are ready to be planted, i.e. as if they just came off the floor at HD or Lowes. No one minds getting a cutting of a rare Croton "Exotica" and rooting out themselves, but cuttings of your Jatropha hedge are going to be in that "withered" pile at the end of the day.

Bihai , I can`t tell you how many times I wished you were closer.
I haven`t traded thru the mail for those exact reasons. I am not saying that I will never do it....

But as for the swaps , some of this stuff is so easy to propagate , or because of limited space in the yard someone wants to get rid of it, or
perhaps try something else. So they share............

A penny save is a penny earned , right ?

If I can save someone from going to the box store and buying a 1 gallon plant , I do it.
That is why Ricky's swaps are so wonderful. That young person starting a garden for the first time is
more than welcome.

The number of generous people here are to numerous to list.

My jewel orchid and bat plant are like a beautiful weeds to me. Easy to grow . So I hand them out by the bucket loads
I love the look on peoples faces when you give them something they really wanted.

Bihai,

Woops. I'm afraid I'm thinking of someone else. I offered the giant heliconia once to someone who was looking for one... but that clearly wasn't you. Whoever it was, we emailed back and forth and he or she realized it wasn't what he or she was looking for, which was fine with me.

I'm like Jupiter, I hate to throw out something that someone is going to go buy at HD. And this forum seems to breed that view, which I think is great. Several people here have given me things, and those things are already making me happy in various little spots in the yard.

And Fawnridge _ I've been rooting my little common stuff for weeks, about to pot it up this weekend so it will be established enough in the pots to offer up. I've been totally looking forward to this! Thanks for hosting something so cool!

Susannah

Bihai said: "the most beautiful heliconia in history: ultra rare variegated Heliconia lemai."

Heck, I have this one, neglected, bursting out of its pot, sitting on a brick under the Muntingia tree. I wish I knew you were looking for one. I think Veronica got hers from me, for a great Chaya recipe!

Here it was as a youngster 3 years ago:

Also have the more vigorous Pittisporum "El Tigre" which is lovely, but with flat stems, narower variegation and faster growth rate.

I will happily share them both. The Lemaii cost $100 for a small one when I bought it in 2005, the Pitt was $40.

I have several of each that badly need to be divided.

Lisa

Oh my god. I just love that beautiful varigation. I see that you have broms. Would you be interested in white varigated bromeliad? Or painted finger - neoregelia spectabilis or another one that I have tried to identify but failed - from the '60s I think, and pretty planted in masses.

Or Fireball? Guess I should do this posting on exchanges, but I can't hep myself.

Cya,
A plant addict. Haven't received an invitation yet. Does that mean I need to get on with my life?

Marilyn - Check your e-mail, the invite was attached to my reply.

I don't think your heliconia is Heliconia lemai. I think it may be Heliconia psitticorum "El Tigre".

I mean, to clarify, I know you have both, I think you are showing a photo of Heliconia El Tigre there,

There is also another variegated heliconia I have seen occasionally which has a different bloom. It has a pretty much standard psitticorum-type bloom but is not all orange, it has red of the keel. Some people think it is a variegated form of Heliconia nickerensis.

As far as I have been able to ascertain, (Lisa if I am wrong please LMK) there are no photos of the H. lemaii bloom?

The Thai sellers sell El Tigre as H. psitticorum "SUnshine" sometimes. I think that there are lots of different names for thee floating around.

I have seen your photo before in another thread, before you posted the same photo as El Tigre, no? Not lemaii

Bihai, The first picture "should" be Lemaii. The second is El Tigre. The narrow El Tigre leaves reach upward, while the broad Lemaii arch down and look very similar to Ae Ae Banana (in my opinion).

I'll try to get current photos of both this weekend.

I got both from Natural Selections Exotics.

I don't remember if my Lemaii bloomed. The El Tigre does regularly.

How is your Lemaii doing?

Lisa

The lemai is a p.i.a. too. It likes to pop out more green leaves then anything. I only have a small bit growing as a variegated, but a nice big clump with green leaves. I'll probably be able to have a bloom pic sooner or later from the green, as it grows twice as fast.

There is also H. indica 'Bangkok' and a few other variegateds. H. spectabilis too. I have H. inidca 'Bangkok', lost the H. spectabilis. I find the variegateds a lot slower growing.

Yes, the first photo definitely looks like a "non-psitticorum" heliconia. The broader leaves are telltale. I think that the "El Tigre" is really probably just a variegated form of H. spathocircinata x psitticorum "Golden Torch" that was renamed with the tag "El Tigre". But who knows? If it originated in Thailand, like many of these variegated tropicals do, they might have bred it, or it might have been a sport that they propagated and got stable variegation on.

Your plants are lovely, no doubt about it.

My lemaii is brand new, still re-rooting in. I think it will do well however. Veronika should definitely post her photos. Her plant is absolutely STUNNING. The variegation is so strong, completely different from yours. I didn;t see any green leaves in her photos.

OK, I have to jump in here.
Yes, I won the lemaii heliconia from a chaya competition
at Ricky's swap from Lisa (Thank you, Lisa.)
It is my most treasured plant.
I have offered it to Bihai, she loved it, so we traded.
I think this post is not fair to Bihai, she is been
so great on this forum, offering so much information
about plants and always have lovely pictures that
are just feast for the eyes. Anybody can decide what
they want to do with their plants, trading, give away,
sell or compost.
I have been given so many beautiful plants, and I gave
away so many as well. However, I do like trading. It is
a way to get rarer variety in my garden, and I don't see
anything wrong with that! Anybody has the same chances.
(To the newbies: What I have done when I started, do a
research and buy some rarer plants that are easy to propagate, rare ginger or philodendron, and trade that, with
this you easily get in the game.)
And to all people who have shared or traded plants with me,
thank you! My garden is so much better for that, and I remember every little plant where it came from.
Here is the picture of the lovely heliconia bihai lemaii albo striata: (the new leaves come out green with just a hint of color, which comes trough as the leaves mature).
{{gwi:934564}}

{{gwi:934566}}

Hi, It is D`Ann again :)

I have the wonderfull El tigre in Lisa 2 nd pic.
I won it as second place chaya contest. Thanks Lisa !

It stays a little shorter, LOVE the leaves.

Not ready toshare yet....but some day LOL !

I don't think the OP meant to criticize anyone, she was just commenting that she knows she, and most of us really, aren't at the trading/collecting level that a few people are. That's true and will always be no matter what you collect. It can be a little depressing sometimes when looking at a lovely plant for which you know you have nothing that's equivalent in trading value. But all of us who aren't in that upper tier need to remember a middle level trader is by no means mediocre, and everyone started somewhere.

It's good advice to find something unusual enough to get you started but the best advice is to be generous with what you have.

Suzanne

Ok girls, I have to admit after reading these posts, I feel sad. :-( I know no one means any harm. I do want to put in a point that may be missed ... Many newbies don't know the difference between many of these plants. And it is all a matter of taste too. I am researching as much as I can to find out about different plants etc. Just a few months ago I did not know what annual and perennial meant. I just know that I loved to see other gardens and really wanted to have my own. I see many of these names posted here and really have no idea of what they really are and to be honest would much rather have a plain hydrangea over a tropical plant any day. Not that there is anything wrong with the tropicals but that is just my taste. The strange thing is, I have never even liked Hydrangeas ... now I am dying to get them in my yard. Now I am embarrassed about the items I listed on my trade page to "offer". As far as propagation goes... so far all I do it kill my cuttings. I would really hate to go buy a "rare" plant that I really don't know if I am truely getting my moneys worth just to trade it. Now I see that I really don't have anything to offer others and this really bothers me. I have a giving personality and I am so use to giving so freely to others and not expecting anything in exchange. I totally understand people not wanting to trade if it truely isn't worth it for them.. after all we all have a certain budget for our own gardens whether it is the cost or the space available to put them. I was just so excited to find this forum b/c I can talk to others that are in my same area, get advice, and the sharing plants part was icing on the cake. I visited Linda who lives a few miles from me last weekend. She was so nice and gave me cuttings of many coleus, and angels trumpet, cannas and some other purple plant. I was amazed at how beautiful her plants are. If I read all these posts before going I may have canceled... and I def. would have skipped out on the plant swap.

Any how, I just wanted to point out that in many cases, us newbies don't mean to offer a .99 cent annual like coleus for your rare prized plant. I am learning, if I offer something like that, just tell me and please know that I am not trying to cheat you. And I will gladly take seedlings or a "stick" because I know in time it will grow.

My two cents...Sometimes I read a post 'oh that's so nice' or whatever. If I have some of whatever it is to offer up and it requires me mailing it, I'll check to see if the person has anything listed to trade. If they don't, I usually move on. If they do, there might be something common or whatever on their list but it's something that I would like in return. As Bihai said (paraphrasing) it has to be something that will make you happy when you get it, not necessarily tit for tat. Anyone who does have a list posted will sometimes get the "I'll take 2 of every plant you have and I'll send you some marigold seeds" offers but really those are rare and far between. I just usually say sorry can't trade right not.

Of course, if you just go to swaps, you will find other than some pre-arranged trades, tons of stuff gets traded on the spot. And when I say trading on the spot, I mean...would you like one? Take it! Just the same way someone will come up to you and say "here, this is for you!" If you go swearing you are NOT coming home with any more plants and are only going for the company...rotflol, it's not going to happen.

Thanks for the advice, everybody, and marvelous pictures of stunning plants. Well appreciated, and I am just soooooo excited about the invite to Ricky's swap. Yay!

"I'll take 2 of every plant you have and I'll send you some marigold seeds" offers but really those are rare and far between.

It might be rare to happen, but it is the type of thing to leave a bad taste - at least for me.

Recently I posted on Craigs List for a free Alpinia - you dig. Had a woman respond quickly, dug it up and proceeded to go around my yard with me hinting about everything "that needed to be thinned".

Not only did I find it irritating, I started to think about the possibility of someone coming back when I wasn't home and helping themselves to stuff. How many people on this forum, don't seem to think anything is wrong with helping themselves to plants? So I won't do the Craigs List thing anymore.

I have traded stuff to different nurseries, but overall I find it easier to buy the stuff I want and compost the stuff I don't. ....and if you saw all the gingers growing out of my compost pile, you'd know I wasn't exaggerating.

Oh minibim, ginger in the compost ! I wish you lived closer.... ( I have said this allot) LOL !

I also share your fears.

Just recently there was a Miracle fruit thread about how valuable they were . I started thinking about a
plant thief sneaking around at night.
I am in another chat room were someone had a collection of plumeria in her yard. Some one came in , and with a machete
cut down the 75 plants ! She freaked !

I love bromeliads and have 40 -45 of them. I am sure many of you have more !
I deliberately place the more common ones in the front of the yard, and the rest are in the back out of sight.

For a few years I was into the hybrid hibiscuses..... and I a pretty darn good a grafting If I do say so myself. ( pat-pat)
Well I can`t say no to people....... many times giving them away with the promise of them calling me for help or giving them back to
me if they start to decline.

All the ones I gave away... people let DIE ! All the hard work down the tubes. Well, I stopped THAT crap !

And M -1977 , good point about the newbie not understanding the differences between plants!

Like my el tigre..... sometimes all it takes is to say " Sorry , this is a bit unusual...... I don`t give much of it away !!!!!

And please, newbie's, don`t get upset !

You will learn :)

Exactly another reason why I don't like giving plants away. No one seems to care that you've given them something nice that they won't find in a box store and they just let it croak. I've killed more than my fair share of plants, but not for reasons like "oh, I forgot to water it".

Last year I gave the next door neighbor all the tomato plants I had when I thinned them out, and she couldn't be bothered to plant them.

Now hybrid Hibiscus - if you only lived closer, lol!!! My overly helpful brother in law after Wilma removed most of mine. Yes, it was hard to wipe the expression of "gratitude' from my face!

Plant theft is a big issue, and not just here in Florida. I have a good friend who lives in Ohio. We exchange plants at least 2-3 times a year. She loves going to orchid shows and always buys things for me that she thinks I will like and sends them to me. I do the same, when I go to plant sales or am just thinning stuff I have or ordering stuff from a catalog or whatever I will frequently think of her and say "She would like this" and get her one too and send it to her.

A few years ago she was ill and her hubby was put in charge of the orchids and somehow something happened and he managed to kill several plants. She was heartsick, but not angry with him...so I surprised her and sent her a large box of orchids to replace her loss.

Just last week she emailed me to say that she had all her "babies" outside for the season as she always does, and someone snuck into her BACK YARD which you cannot see the plants from the front and stole a whole bunch of her orchids! Many were unusual South American varieties that she had gotten from Ecuagenera, some I had given her, some she had got herself at the Cleveland shows...I was so angry to hear that.

This is a reason that I do not invite people to "go through my greenhouse" anymore. I used to get asked a lot by some orchid folks and bromeliad folks to let them bring people over for a special look-see, but I no longer do that.

Minibim, I too compost plants. All the clippings and stuff that comes out of the greenhouse goes in one special area in the woods, and at anytime I can go out there and "harvest" stuff that has rooted or grown from cuttings naturally due to the heat and moisture of the piles. I can reclaim it to plant in my yard, trade, or whatever.

I used to propagate my Green Jade vines specifically to trade, because a lot of folks want them. But they are hard to get to root by the standard methods. Even airlayering can take months and months. I devised a system "ground rooting" which is halfway between air layering and half way between regular soil rooting, and was able to root several huge sections 10-12 feet long of vine. I made an advance trade with someone to meet at one of the USF sales and trade one such plant for a clerodendron I wanted. She gave me a gorgeous large 3 gal rooted plant and was very very happy with the Jade I gave her.

Unfortunately on the way home, she had a passenger in her car who, ACCIDENTALLY, injured the Jade Vine beyond salvage. She never emailed me and told me. Recently we traded again, she sent me a very nice plant for my Red Jade Vine that I had available (Mucuna bennettii) and she told me what had happened with her green one.

She doesn't know it (and she's not on here too often I don't think so I don't think she will see this) but I am trying to root another green for her. I want to surprise her.

I am sorry that some of you "newbies" feel the way you do. But you know, everyone has to start somewhere, and perhaps your best course of action is to educate yourself more about plants in general. The implication that people who "collect" and "trade" as opposed to people who only "garden" and "share" are not inherently generous is ludicrous. Its great you feel you can make assumptions about people's true personalities from an iVillage Garden forum, but you couldn't be more incorrect in your assumptions about me.

I've been watching this thread develop and getting more and more disheartened by what I see. Let me remind all of you that the plants were here long before you and they will survive long after you are gone. The best bet for their survival is to spread them around. As rare as a certain plant may be, if you keep it locked up in your greenhouse and it dies... well you can draw your own conclusions.

I agree that giving a rare plant to someone who has no "plant savvy" may be a risk, but the risk of losing a species because it wasn't distributed may be even higher.

Rare is a subjective word and actually is probably the wrong word for the discussion - hard to acquire, is probably the better term.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could freely trade or buy from places like Thailand, Malaysia, Australia etc. Geez, the Thais and some of their hybrid programs could cause many an American to go broke. Sure you can get stuff from there(and I have) but it requires documents, a large minimum order, and a big hope that customs won't delay the box. If you can find the specific plant here in the U.S. it's usually expensive due to the expense of getting it here.

True endangered plants are another matter entirely and endangered is a subjective word itself. Hawaii seems to pride itself on having more endangered plants than anybody and refusing all means to propagate the plant. Many of the plants Hawaii considers endangered would propagate readily, if they didn't have lame excuses about why manmade propagation wasn't as good as naturally occurring.

I don't think anyone here is referring to actual endangered plants. Value and rarity is something each of us decides on our own. If you're happy receiving a coleus or a recipe in trade that's all that matters, but it doesn't make someone else a greedy, selfish person if they want something more.

Michelle,

Please don't get disheartened. You and I are at a very different level from some of the folks here. Just learning to air layer was a huge accomplishment from me (I'll see if I can find a good online guide for you because it's fun once you get the hang of it and often works for plants that everyone says are easy to propogate, but don't just start growing roots in soil or water, which to newbie me is the easy way.)

There are truly some very generous people here on the forum, and there are a few prickly types, you'll begin to recognize them. And then there are some who might just be having a bad day, gosh knows I've had some bad days. A Tropical Storm is bound to cause one.

When it comes to the folks like Bihai, they're in a different league from you and me and it's sad that people have tried to take advantage of their expertise and generosity. That would leave a bad taste in my mouth too. But don't worry. As long as you don't do that, no one will be mean. Honestly, I don't see any reason Bihai needs defense. What she says makes perfect sense to me, and certainly didn't come off as prickly, or unkind. Just a different experience with trading from someone who has a lot more experience gardening and trading than I do.

And if you and I weren't in such completely different climates, and miles and miles from each other, I'd love to trade with you. Do NOT be embarassed by your trade post. I doubt too many people are posting trades to show off what they can propogate, or are looking at other's trade posts and snickering at the amateurishness of them. If they're snickering at me, well, I hope they enjoyed that moment feeling superior. I've learned to do many things in my life, speak other languages, find common ground with people from wildly different backgrounds, find my way around war zones without getting killed, raise tomatoes, not kill gardenias. Each was challenging and in each endeavor, I found people who felt superior. The trick is to not let those people get to you because some of them aren't superior and I've understood things in a foreign language that they missed, found people who would tell me their story when they wouldn't tell the superior types, even gotten behind rebel lines before them and beaten them on news stories. I haven't grown better tomatoes yet, but someday maybe I will. Hopefully someday I'll coax the gardenia into blooming again.
And I've already traded with several other newbies here, and I've sent seeds to people just because they wanted them and I had a lot of that particular thing. Others have done the same for me.

Please, really, don't get disheartened. It's nice here.

Susannah

Here is a link that might be useful: air layering guide

Thank you, I know I am low on the "food chain" here. I appreciate answers to all my questions.

Thank you so much for the link. I put it in my favorites. I also have been checking out books and dvds from my local library and reading up as much as I can. The UF website has tons of good info about everything gardening too. It is so strange that when all I had was house plants, I could propagate them easy and I never even used anything but potting soil and tap water. I have bought the same type of plants.. like various Ivy, spider plants etc. I KNOW they are easy to propagate but I can't seem to get them to do anything. They just rot. I have tried changing the potting medium, misting instead of watering etc. I wonder if the water is the problem. Before I was using regular tap water (city) and now I am in another county, but city water from the tap but we have a water softener on it. The water from the sink is suppose to be straight "tap" but I wonder if it still has traces of the "soft" water. I was thinking of using the rain water from my rain barrell. I just don't know about the bacteria that could be in there. On the other hand I have a varigated hydrangea and a dwarf gardenia that is actually rooting! The roots are just little bumps right now so i have a long way to go yet.

I'm also a newbie here in south FL. I went without plants to my first swap-a-que at Ricky's and was absolutely thrilled to be able to mix with other gardeners. Sure, it's about the plants, but the fellowship and garden tour given by Ricky were the high point of Spring for me.

I received many lovely plants, some of which may be considered common, but new to me, as I've never gardened in FL before. I'm trying to root starts of those that have grown enough to do so, so that I may welcome you newbies who come to the upcoming swap, with offerings of plants that do well here. So, please come! I'm also looking round the yard (I'm renting here), and with the landlord's blessing, I'm trying to root other plants, commoners, once again. My gardening is mostly in pots on the patio, as the garden beds are are planted with flora of the landlord's choosing. For those with new homes and virtually empty yards, even the common plants can add a bit of green til you get a few of the plants your heart desires. For you, the common plants may be just what is needed.

I never intend to offend in a trade, through my own ignorance of the value of the plants being offered up. But I've a lot to learn about what is considered common here. A good place to start is simply browsing the box stores to see what is 'commonly' sold there. And if what I bring isn't taken home, it will come home with me to be shared round my neighborhood. One thing about living in FL, hurricanes are a way of life, and everybody has to replace/replant at some point in time.

So, all you newbies, come to the swap!!

girlsaylor

Hear hear !

Thank you!

Cheryl posted a picture of her garden path on a different thread yesterday. She had the following quote inscribed on the path. "I see trees of green, red roses too. I see them bloom for me and you. And I think to myself, what a wonderful world" ... Louis Armstrong

Bihai,
I sent you an email, but I wanted to say here that I was certainly not putting you down. I understand how much you've spent on your plants, and I'd be picky too. I've been stiffed on trades too, it's not just those who have really rare stuff who get stiffed.

I don't trade much anymore either, partially because of being stiffed, but partly because I just can't afford the postage. I will send a newbie seeds when I have some extras of something that puts out a lot, but that most people won't have.

I think the reason a lot of people quit trading, like Bill and Ambersky, is because there got to be a circle there in this area that had traded so much that we all had the same stuff, and really had nothing to trade. I always walked away from those trades with more than I came with, because people were so generous, and if it wasn't for Bill, I wouldn't have my costus barbatus or my heliconia rostrata. He traded with me for practically nothing...some pretty common bromeliads. He just GAVE me the Heliconia, then laughed because he saw them selling for $50 on eBay the next day. I think of him and Carolyn, and how Charley tore up their beautiful garden, every time I look at those two plants, that are blooming right now.

Another reason I'm not trying to get any rare plants right now is because some of the ones I did get in trade died, a couple from my own neglect, so I don't want to kill anymore of them.

I will say that I don't throw anything on the compost pile unless I cannot find someone who wants it. No matter how rare it is, I'm not going to throw it away just because nobody has anything I want to trade for. I'll give it away first, and have, many times. I gave away my variegated brug to someone who had wanted one for years, but could never find one she could afford. I know that feeling, and I really didn't need it. I just wanted it. So now it's very happy, and 10 feet tall, and I can get a cutting any time I want.

I've even put an ad on Craigslist saying that I was throwing out extra plants I was thinning or cuttings of a nice shrub that was easy to root, or put it on freecycle so people could get them. If nobody came, then they went to the trash, but first, I was going to try to find homes for them.

I just can't throw things away that I know other people would love to have. I'm sure some people actually pick them up and sell them, but heck, if I'm not going to, why shouldn't they?

I am saddened by the hurt feelings and words posted here. I know about having plants you do not wish to trade and I know about not having plants to trade. My father always taught me to share and appreciate. Gardening is about preserving the species that are nearing extinction and preserving and passing along all plants. All of the tension and expressions here are creating such feelings of sorrow and discomfort that I am seriously thinking of avoiding all trades and swaps for fear of offending someone. Gardeners have always been generous in my experience and the best memories I have are of gardeners treating me to small cuttings or starts of unusual and hard to find plants. I lost the majority of my collection in Tallahassee when an unusual hard freeze caused us to lose power and my greenhouse froze. I have had to leave many of my plants behind due to circumstances after my parents' deaths and my living in rentals. I have not been able to do what I want recently (last six years) due to my husband's health, finances and moves. I have experienced the role of having some of the hardest and most expensive plants to the role of having almost nothing and drooling over the plants of gardeners who have what I had. I am slowly acquiring some of the plants I used to have but doing it the hard way through seeds. It will take a long time to see them grow and bloom, but it also adds to the appreciation of the plant. I have so many people here on the garden web to thank for assisting me in starting over from scratch. I look at my Florida room and my yard and each plant brings that person close to my heart. I am most grateful to Ricky for sharing some of his more exclusive crotons and Lisa for sharing and introducing me to unusual vegetables and fruits. My fruit garden is almost exclusivly due to Lisa's generosity. I have a common special cactus that is extremely dear to my heart because of Kristi who shared it with me because it reminded her of me and my job at Disney. I could name others who have given me stuff but there is not enough room here to list everyone. I just wish we could let this drop and remember when a newbie offers something they usually do not know the value of what another gardener is offering and they just want to add omething pretty to their garden. They also are experiencing their first taste of sharing with fellow gardeners and we should help encourage that desire while gently teaching them about plants. I do understand the envy especially when I have been in the spot to be envied but I do what I can do and appreciate whatever anyone shares with me. I love plants but more importatly I love people especially gardeners. Linda

I have been reading this thread and find it very interesting. What I most like is the polite exchange of strongly held opinions from passionate gardeners.

We all love our plants and share that common ground although we may disagree about other things. Like religion and politics we just have to agree to disagree about some things.

The quote I like is "I disagree with everything you say and will defend to the death your right to say it." Well...as long as you say it nicely...as people here have done (in my opinion).

Just for my 2 cents-I saw early on that people's trade lists had "special trade" attached to some things and I understood that. Another phrase I have always found useful was "I don't mind you asking if you don't mind me saying no". That phrase has come in very handy when people asked....whether I would send a plant for free......how much I paid for something...how much I weigh...etc

I have been debating whether its worth it to jump back into this thread, or just let it die a natural death (if only it would). Since I was the person who was basically "called out" so to speak in the original post, even if only as an example (you could have just been generic, without using anyone's name, junkyardgirl and I am certain you would have gotten the same responses you have gotten) and since I did voice my opinion and my position, I just want to say, I harbor no ill feelings toward any of you, but I do kind of think that some of you sound like you have taken this much too seriously.

Junkyardgirl emailed me privately and I have not had the chance to sit down and formulate a response to her yet, other people have emailed me privately and said that they agree with me about plants and trading, the person who I thought wouldn't see the mention that I was trying to root another Jade Vine for her emailed me to say thanks and that she was surprised and excited...

I am not certain why some of you are so, to quote your own words, "saddened" by the replies in the thread. My feelings aren't "hurt". I have a much thicker skin than that. You are entitled to your "philosophy" if you will about plants, trading and gardening, and I am entitled to mine.

Like naplesgardener said, its like politics and religion. Its like being that person who makes the off color joke about Democrats without realizing they are the only Republican in the room. Or the Fundamentalist Christian who knocks on the door of an atheist to try to deliver religious literature and gets the door slammed in their face. Sometimes you just have a different opinion. You gotta live and let live, respect that everyone has the right to their own way of thinking and doing, and just go on from there.

No matter how many posts there are about all the kind and generous souls who have done this or that for you in the past and given you this or that, you have to remember that probably others, like me, have also done the same in the past and you just don't know about it, because I and they don't choose to tell you.

So can we just lay it to rest? Eventually it can only cause bad feelings or an argument between someone. I already sort of feel like my reputation has been "tarnished" in some way, but, as I said at the beginning of this post, it really doesn't matter and I'm not "mad" about it. I say quit while we're ahead.