No more passionflower, dutchman pipe,,,or milkweed

13 years ago

I really enjoy both of these types of vines. Not only for the flowers & the foliage but as butterfly attractors.

Over the years I tried to increase my collection of passionflowers as many do pretty well at my dry, dune coastal location with regards to drought.

The constant problem of course are the caterpillars so its a catch 22. Never have I been able to leave the plants without spraying BT or a chemical on them to keep the number of caterpillars at bay.

I read the post from butterfly gardeners which state how the plants adopt to the constant loss of foliage and recover.

I find this to be far from the truth.

Growing about 8 Aristolochia species is the same thing with swallowtails. Some species of Aristolochia the caterpillars cannot feed or they will die. But that doesn't stop mother swallowtail from dumping eggs on these plants either. The caterpillars hatch and eat until they die yet the plant is a wreck.

I did not spray any passionflowers or aristolochia this year. They are now all dead, weakened from continually being defoliated. As soon as a new leaf tries to come on the weakening plant there are 15 caterpillars. Of course none life.

One passionflower nursery gave me some bat wing passionflowers so the caterpillars would eat those instead of the other plants. This is a crock and doesn't work. The caterpillars eat every thing and then more caterpillars come.

Even the hardy native P. suburosa (cork screws) have died from the incredible Gulf fritillary attacks non-stop, there is no break. Once a plant loses everything it takes more energy to throw out the 2nd & 3rd sets of growth until finally weakened it just dies off.

Butterflies are nice. The only one I haven't seen be a sloth glutton would be the zebra long wing.

Point is anyone who lives in my world and tells you that the hordes of butterflies eating your passionflowers are not the same as lubber grasshopper damage to lilies is living in la-la land.

This week my old massive Lady Margret plant which covered nearly 30' of 6' tall fence appears to have been so weakened that the clean shaven stems are now dead.

I cannot keep the Aristolochia elegeans with foliage on it ever, and it is more delicate then A. gigantea. A. ringens which is not a favorite of swallowtail is under heavy attack and suffering. A. grandiflora eaten away there is no vines or blooms up the live oak.

Without spraying constantly these plants will go down.

One of the only passionflowers not attacked by caterpillars are some of the red blooms, such as P. cocciena which is a cool season bloomer.

I will note that this is also a constant problem with milkweed. It used to be that the monarch was gone by mid May and both the tropical as well as native milkweeds could recover. Not so the past couple of years the monarchs are not leaving in May but are now year round. While not as many in the summer it is difficult without constantly spraying to keep the monarchs at bay. The milkweeds like the passionflowers, and dutchmans pipe will succumb quickly without control. Looking at a shredded milkweed stem and it has 8 caterpillars but only 3 tiny little leaves half eaten isn't a very successful way for a species to repopulate itself, however butterflies seem to go for the population mentality that no matter how many young are on a stem we will will lay more eggs so that none of the next generation survives due to lack of food or even a living plant.

Maybe I have more butterflies around then the average gardenere, I don't know? But you want to see big cool looking vines go down quick. One day covered in huge flowers and then a month later,, just brown dead vines come I will show you and I will tell you that any butterfly gardener that tells you there is no worry of the plants falling without spraying is crazy in my neck of the woods

The butterflies win and now can go somewhere else to find a meal, let all these plants I love die and I will replace with some thing butterfly proof.

My rant is over... I will not be a slave to having to spray BT every week the rest of my life in the garden. Not worth it even for beautiful plants.

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Comments (8)

imagardener2
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You seem to be a victim of success. The question is do you want pretty plants or happy caterpillars. I don't think you can have both.

I agree that the cats can kill a plant by eating all it's leaves. Passionflower seems to adapt pretty well by underground roots and having baby vines springing up all over the place. I also grow a couple different dutchman's pipes and the fimbriata is especially prone to being killed off by cats. Hard to replace it without going to a special nursery hours away and spending boocoo $'s. I do it when I feel like it.

Perhaps you should grow bigger plants that can't be killed off.

Senna's come in tree form and the sulfurs are beautiful to watch around them all day. Giant swallowtail like citrus as well as Hercules club and prickly ash. I grow all of these and they are never decimated.

I also have passionflowers and milkweed eaten to nothing regularly and just bought some more milkweed from a native nursery. It's my small price for butterflies around all day.
Whoops gotta go. Giant ST just buzzed by.

Denise
goldenpond
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I plant the dill and fennel and parsley just for the cats but this year I actually harvested some dill to dry!
I hide the larval plants in the middle of beds(there nothing I want to look at anyway) and I plant another vine along with Dutchman's pipe( usuallymandevilla). I also immediately take cuttings when I purchase them and hide them til thy get larger then if the original is gone I have replacements.
If they disappear I am happy because that is why I planted them. If you feed birds they EAT IT ALL UP and you go buy more.
Same idea.
You can still plant lovely Butterfly flowers ,you may not get as many but the adults will still stop in for a sip!
good luck!
tanya
{{gwi:900806}}
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I'm glad you found some of it useful, Jonnys. It really doesn't have to be hard. I bought one of the mesh/net cages they had at Lukas one year, but I actually prefer the plastic boxes. Easier to clean, easier to see into. The only benefit I could see to the mesh is that it would be easier on the eclosed butterflies if they hatch out while you are away. Less chance of injury. But I'm at home during the day and check on them frequently when I know they are due to eclose. Sadly, they WILL die if they run out of food. You have to be prepared to grow a lot, and don't bring in more than you can feed. In my opinion, it is better to let the cats take their chances outside, maybe becoming food for lizards, wasps or other predators, than to let them die in a cage. So I try to be sure I have enough food for the ones I'm trying to raise. I usually only raise 8 or 10 cats at once. I wait until they have hatched outside, then pick the stems that have babies on them, limiting the number to what I think I can feed. At my house, those left outside get eaten fairly quickly, so they don't usually decimate my yard plants. However, if you find you have a whole bunch you want to save, you will need to make a run to Lukas (or somewhere you can trust the safety of the plants) for more milkweed. Or the appropriate food source. Caterpillars are ravenous eaters, for sure, so it's better to have plenty planted or on hand in pots. When I found the swallowtails on my fennel, they were more than half grown, and I only found about 4 big cats, so I had plenty of fennel for them. But the monarchs are so prolific, it takes a nice stand of milkweed to keep them fed. The good thing is, the milkweed comes back fast. Another thing...when the cats are tiny, they need the tender leaves, but as they get bigger, they will eat stems and all, so that is helpful if you are running low on leafage. We all know the story of caterpillars turning into butterflies, but there is something truly magical about watching it happen before your eyes. For me, it was watching the fat caterpillar hang himself from the lid (it's called "J-ing up") and suddenly split right open and there is the brilliant green chrysalis. They don't weave a pupa around themselves like moths do...their skin just splits and there's this green jewel hanging there. Amazing! And you will know that eclosing is getting near when the green color disappears and you can see the striped monarch inside. Of course, this is different for each species. The process is the same, but everything else looks different. Good luck with your venture. I think you might find it as addictive as any other form of gardening. And kids are totally fascinated by the process, too. My 4-year old granddaughter thinks it's the neatest thing, ever. She's right. Marcia
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Tom
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I have lots of passionvines around and plenty of Duchman's pipevine also. I get caterpillers but they are kept under control by the wasps. I don't understand why this happens here and not in your garden. The same thing happens with milkweed. I have it all over the place and I have never run out--especially now, since all the Monarchs died out in this area over the winter. I am just seeing them regularly now. When the Goldwing cats get big enough they seem to make it. It's when they are small that the wasps, and perhaps the anoles, get them. I'm thinking that perhaps ants and other insects also eat the eggs.

I have the same problem with food for the Eastern Black Swallowtails. I now have some dill that's over six feet tall. I get some cats and some make it to maturity, but most get eaten by the wasps and if they get big enough the Cardinals often get them.
User
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
take the good with the bad, and the good is a much stronger source of energy for the future. who cares about a few plants ate to the ground. don't use them as your focal point in the yard, mix them in. kids twenty years from now will thank you....
bihai
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You must have all the butterflies at your house. I don't have that problem here, wish I did. I did lose a big passiflora to caterpillars in 2003, but it seems like after 2004, the year we had the 4 big storms, we just have not had the butterflies in great numbers here. I miss them.
amberroses
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Yikes, don't spray the poor little guys. You just have to decide whether you will tolerate some ugly half eaten plants to have butterflies or whether you just want to pull them out and plant pretty non-larval food plants. Don't torture yourself or the caterpillars by spraying. Maybe you could just plant some nectar flowers like someone else here suggested?
mboston_gw
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
My huge Pipevine got eaten down three times last year but was recovering nicely until the freeze. Now I am transferring Polydamas from one section to another to try to keep a handle on things. I have even taken some over to a friends house who didn't have as many. I guess I will picking off eggs as well. Gulf Frits are very numerous this year and I have seen them eating my Careula which they never went for in the past. The incense is being devoured except for what is in the shade - they like it in the sun. Hoping ZLWs come visit it soon before its all gone.

I love my flutter friends. I would never spray the plants to kill them. Just plant more. I have noticed that over time, nature tends to even things out. I am not finding as many baby GFs nor Polydamas eggs. That will the vine time to recover - hopefully!
fagopher
13 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
For the passionvine, I got a butterfly house and I grab any cat I find on the plants and put them into the house. I then grab leaves and branches and use them to feed the cats.

In captivity they seem to eat less and pupate quicker than on the outside (so they eat less) the effect is that the butterflies are smaller, but it seem a fair trade.

So far it is working for me.. I got all my passionvines eaten about a month ago and were not able to recover until I started doing that.

The milkweed, it pops up everywhere and I pretty much leave it be. Even if it doesn't get eaten, it becomes leggy and looses all the leaves so, I don't mind if they get eaten. Just make sure to get the seeds and spread them where you want to have more

Regards

No more passionflower, dutchman pipe,,,or milkweed

Comments (8)

imagardener2

goldenpond

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