Lisa, it could be a black pine snake though usually they are a lot larger. They have thick bodies and some are black. I have attached a link for you. Linda

Here is a link that might be useful: black pine snake

Linda, I probably underestimated the length, but it was a very thick snake compared to a slender Racer. I didn't get a good look at his head. His tail seemed short to me, much smaller than the body, narrowing rapidly. Are Pine Snakes found in zone 10? We have a very few Pines left -this area used to be a Pine forest. He was not aggressive at all- moved away from us as soon as we came outside.

Ya know, Wimmen cain't measure...

But I can't tell you why here(G).

Lisa

Lisa,

I think its a black phase Eastern Hognose Snake. A Hognose Snake would be a very thick bodied adult at 18 inches in length whereas species like the Indigo Snake and Black Pine Snake which get very large and thick would not be especially thick at 18 inches.

The habitat also sounds ideal for a hognose snake and the abundance of toads would be right up their alley since they feed pretty much exclusively on toads.

While the dominant field guide phase of the eastern hognose snake is blotched and very colorful, they also come in both a solid jet black and a solid gray phase.

I'll try and find a picture of a black phase hognose snake for you and link it.

I agree with Wayne, of course...eastern hognose snake. They can also be silvery and splotchy, but black is not uncommon. They are heavybodied for their length, and are often called puff adders and hissing adders for their tendencey to put on a very convincing cobra-like display of spreading their necks and striking out as though they will bite. (They seldom do and are completely harmless.) Here's a photo for ya:

I've linked a picture of a Black Phase (Melanistic) Eastern Hognose Snake.

Does this look like your snake?

Here is a link that might be useful: Black Phase Eastern Hognose Snake

...where ya been, Wayne? We have had several snake discussions over the last few weeks, and I was hoping you'd pop in and give us the benefit of your very expert opinion. How's the herping this summer?

Marcia

Marcia,

Wow, you're fast! You beat me to a picture of a black phase eastern hognose snake :-). So there are two different examples to look at.

I'm glad I randomly popped in to check for snake questions tonight. This was a fun one!

Here's one of my semi-recent local herp trip reports. It's been a slower summer than usual but I had a good day on June 20th as well as on the May evening below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Local Missouri Snake Trip

Cool snake Lisa.
I have the racers. See 'em every day.
That fat one would startle me for sure.
Til I got used to it.

Hahaha...I'm fast, all right. I was replying to Joan when you beat me to it, but I had that pic ready to go! I like the photo you shared, too. Great picture. I checked your link...LOVE the pics of the milk snake and the copperhead. (Still wearing his yellow tail tip.)

Question on the milk snake...I notice the bands are nice neat circles at the beginning of the snake and at the end...but somewhere in the middle, they go all "slanty" for a bit. Is that typical?? It looks so odd. I don't think I've ever seen one of them in person before. (In snake?)
Another question...in my Audubon guide, they seem to lump the milk snake and the scarlet king right together. Is the scarlet king a subspecies of the milk snake? Instead of being with the kingsnakes, it's on that page, and I got confused.

I love my snakies, but I'm not a real expert like YOU!!

Marcia

Marcia,

The area where they go all slanty is not typical. It's what is often referred to as a slightly aberrant pattern. Scarlet Kingsnakes are indeed a subspecies of Milk Snake. All kingsnakes and milk snakes are part of the Lampropeltis family (so all milk snakes are technically also kingsnakes) but the Scarlet Kingsnake is more closely related to milk snakes than to the other kingsnakes. Both the Scarlet Kingsnake and the Red Milk Snake are subspecies of Lampropeltis triangulum, whereas the Common kingsnake subspecies are Lampropeltis getula.

Wayne, thanks a million for clarifying that. I was sort of thinking that must be the way of it, but it doesn't specifically say that in my guide. Hey! Whaddya know...I've now seen (second-handedly) an aberrant milksnake!! Who knew???

Thanks again, Wayne! It's always cool to talk to you, and I learn something new every time!

Marcia

Funny...must be snake season. In the 7 1/2yrs I have lived here, I have never once seen a snake in my yard. Until last week. My snake 'may' actually be an Indigo. It's smooth and a brownish/black color. It seems to have a 'routine' and passes through my yard daily between 2-3pm.

Or, I'm totally off and it's a black racer. It looks too brown though to be a racer. I'm just hoping none of my neighbors try to kill it.

Saintp, if it looks too brown to be a racer, I wouldn't think it would be an indigo. They are very shiny black, so black they are almost blue, hence the name. I'm wondering if it might be a coachwhip or something similar. How long is it? Slender or heavy-bodied, in proportion to its length?

Here is a photo of an indigo for comparison:

Does this look like your guy?
Marcia

that too brown black racer looking fellow out and about during the day is likely a coachwhip.

Alan

That's what I'm thinking, Alan. Sounds about right to me.

Marcia

Hmmm...I don't know. It still looks like an Indigo to me. It's like a black-brownish color- but more on the black side-- and shiny. It moves really fast too. I've gotten up close to it (well, for me anyway..a nice 3ft distance...) to get a better look too. No patterns or other markings...just smooth blackish-brown. It's about 3-4ft long.

I'll try to be fast enough to take a picture next time because I would really like to know. In either case, I'm sure 'whatever' it is, it's a 'good snake' not a bad snake.
I'm no snake expert for sure.

I'm just excited at all the wildlife that exists in my downtown city back yard. If I didn't work from home, I would miss all of this stuff. Glad my office window faces the back yard!

If it turns out to be an indigo, treat it with great respect and love...they are few and far between these days! I've never seen one with any trace of brown in it, but who knows.

Here is a link with photos to all Florida snakes, venomous and non-venomous. Great pictures and good info, including range, habitat, etc. The only thing I would say is that the photos don't show all the color variations in a couple of species, like the hognose, for instance. OR the coachwhip, which can be much darker.

Check it out!

Marcia

Here is a link that might be useful: Florida's Backyard Snakes

Okay...maybe it's just me, BUT, the photos of the Indigo snake look 'brownish-black' to me --just like my mystery snake. So, my snake is either an Indigo or a Racer...and since Indigos are so rare...I'm probably off totally wrong and it's probably a racer.

Go figure, the neighbor cat has been hanging out in my yard, so Mr.Snake has been a no-show. Either that, or, he knows I want to take his picutre and therefore has to be elusive.

Hmmmm...well, we all see color differently, for sure. To me, indigo snakes look...indigo...very dark blue-black. They are much larger and heavier bodied than black racers. Also, black racers have white under their chins that is quite visible, and aren't shiny. They are satiny...sort of matte finished...and can often be more charcoal instead of totally black. Here are photos for comparison:

This is a black racer, with white chin visible, very long and slim, more satiny than shiny, and not a true jet black.

Another view of a black racer.

Here are some indigo pictures. In the top one, you can see the blue sheen on the snake. In the other, you can see that this is a much larger, thicker, heavier-bodied snake than than black racer. Indigos are a really beautiful snake, and are the largest, non-vemonous snakes in North America. They can get as large as 8 feet or more! Big boys, and lovely to watch.

Hope this helps. Again, a photo would be super. I know we could tell for sure, if you were lucky enough to get one.

Marcia, do black racers get this flattended look when they slither away from you like the last image above? I saw a young black snake on the side walk, but when she was moving away from me, she looked really 'thin'.... does it make sense what I say here?

Evelyn

Snakes can look somewhat flattened when they are crawling, yes. It sometimes depends on the surface they are traveling over. Snakes crawl by use of the elongated scales on their abdomen. Those move along, sort of like the treads on a tank, gripping the ground and moving the snake forward. To me, they look flatter on some surfaces than others, perhaps due to the amount or lack of traction. I don't know if I'm explaining it right, but their bodies aren't perfect cylinders when they move.

A really thin black snake here in Florida is probably a black racer. It helps to see the entire snake and not just a "rear view" but I would imagine a racer is what you saw.

Marcia

Can anyone tell me what kind of snake this is? It was inside our screened in pool. I had a heck of a time getting it out. This snake did not have very good social skills at all and put up quite a fuss. It had a good fight with our pool skimmer as I tried to direct it out the door! I live in South Florida.

Black Racer. They've got nasty tempers and will strike repeatedly if cornered, but they are more or less harmless. They're a bigger threat to lizards than they are to you.

Thank you! I have a feeling it's been inside the pool area for a while because I noticed a decline in our Gecko population! That could explain why it didn't want to leave. Or, it has a secret way in and out that we don't know about. It was about 3-4 feet long. What are the chances of it coming back?

Decent. Snakes are somewhat territorial in that they don't roam too much if the food is plentiful. I have two resident Black Racers as well as a Coachwhip. They tend to give me a start when I clumsily stomp into their vicinity and they bolt (their preferred method of interacting with us). The longest of the two Racers does have a tendency to come into my lanai to look around for anoles, but usually leaves when it finds nothing. Snakes can squeeze themselves through some fairly small gaps. So if there is a gap under your porch door, that is likely how it got in.

I was hiking around on some CREWS land last year. If you don't know, CREWS is an acronym, the exact meaning of which escapes me right now, but which organization is active in land and water conservation in the S. Florida area. They've got a lot of land.

So we were out taking a nature hike, focusing on fungi one morning. During the hike we'd seen several black racers. After the session was over, I was walking back to my car, not really thinking about anything, let alone snakes, when I darn-near stepped on a big, fat diamondback rattler which was slowly making its way across the parking lot. I mean literally, I almost stepped on it. So of course the next thing it does is go under my car. Now I've got a great big rattlesnake under my back tire, I don't want to hurt the snake and I also would just as soon not get bit in the ankle. I grabbed a palm frond and kind of poked around and tried to swish the big guy out of there, all of which had little effect. By then, many of the folks who had been on the hike had gathered around. I was able, with their help, to slowly, cautiously back my car away from the snake, who upon losing its hiding spot, went sliding off into the woods. Best possible ending for what was a fairly hairy situation!

I'm a snake lover from way back, and there was no way I was going to harm that thing. But too, I did need to get into that car!

_+oM