This happened at the Ft Laud News Sunsentinel several years ago. I believe they are sister publications. There is more interest in "Society" affairs and interior decorating that gardening is all but lost. I have long since stopped reading this paper.

Jerry

The very same thing has happened to the Fla. Today paper. I always looked forward to it on Saturdays. First section I turned to. Now it's exactly as you described. social, decorating, etc. Some weeks no gardening subjects at all. I e-mailed my feelings of dissapointment, but now reply. I think I will send another. They call it the Life section now. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Don't you just love the article from the Chicago Tribune on making willow fences?????? Say what???

Its become a joke! I can't believe more people in FL aren't personally involved in gardening. Many of them are retired; they have time; they should probably have the means; the area is a wonderful haven for gardeners. I'm in a daylily club that meets at Leu Gardens and we are begging for new members. Its a friendly club that really likes to garden, but recruiting is difficult. Even with the explosive growth of Orlando. Hard to understand!

There may be a way to help solve this problem. This is a pretty talented group and I know we can write as well as the articles I see in the paper. I would certainly much rather read something written by any one of you than something by someone in Chicago who knows nothing about our growing conditions. Write an article and submit it to the paper!

amen, everyone here, amen.

for the most populous section (i-4 corridor since the early 2000s) of the fourth most populous state, with the most diverse growing conditions in the US (arguably, depending on how you look at it -- we have more vascular plant species than any other state)... we got squat here when it comes to garden journalism.

i gave up on the sentinel two years ago, when they reorganized the sunday paper and essentially stopped publishing anything worthwhile in their garden section. willow fences, indeed.

it's why YOU and i are reading this forum right now. and i second solstice's suggestion.

Writing articles for the Sentinel? Ummm...I'd have to think about that one. But off the top of my head, it wouldn't solve MY problem if I did, because I already KNOW what *I* have to say!

Another thought...why would I want to write something to help them sell more newspapers, when they do such a poor job of giving us what we want? I have a better idea...LET'S START OUR OWN PUBLICATION!!! Okay, that's probably not really gonna happen. But truthfully, I'd rather write an article for Florida Gardening or something similar.

But mostly, I want to READ good articles with lots of photos. I can't get enough! And the dang newspaper sure isn't helping any more. I think I will write them a well worded, polite, but stern letter of complaint for starters.

Now if any of YOU decide to submit an article, be sure to let us know so we can look for it.

Beachlily, I think there are a LOT of gardeners in Florida (even if they don't become as obsessed with it as WE might). I just don't think most people join garden clubs. I know I'm not a joiner in that sense. I've been meaning to join the OGR club (forget the exact name) but haven't gotten around to it in two years because I hate to go to regular meetings. But when you see the crowds at local garden events, like the Apopka Foliage Festival & the one at Leu Gardens, you can see the interest is there, at least to some extent.

I'm curious to hear more thoughts on this whole issue. And I'm about this close to storming the Sentinel offices and B****slapping some sense into their collective teensy brains! (Anyone want to come watch me throw my not inconsiderable weight around????? It won't be a pretty sight, but it might be entertaining!!)

Marcia

It's not about interest; it's about cash. The Sentinel is just responding to what they perceive will sell papers. Perhaps their editor's mother was terribly frightened by a roving band of gardeners when she was pregnant with him, but that seems like a remote possibility and I don't think there is any evil intent there. They probably don't have many advertisers from the gardening community and don't get many letters from readers about gardening. When they posted a question about gardening last year, I was one of only 6 people that responded! Six! No wonder they keep cutting it back.

I'm a newspaper junkie so I would really like to get them more focused on us. I still like the idea of submitting some articles, but maybe we could all send them an email and just let them know what sorts of things we would like to see.

I really don't read the paper much, so I can't comment. What I can say is I'm a transplanted Northerner. I was a Master Gardener In Chicago. When I moved to FL 6 years ago, I was really out of my element. I looked for books and magazines to help me get information. There are not too many garden clubs and activities like we had up North. Nor are there the amount of parks, Batonic Gardens or Nurseries in a concentrated like Chicago. Mostly your're on your own here. What I found most useful is Florida Gardening Magazine and forums like this. There are many sites on the intenet that are useful, but I miss the interaction of people meeting face to face, showing off their gardens, swapping cuttings and plants. I have been learning about Florida gardening for 6 years and still feel like a newbie. There is nothing like actually seeing the plants where they grow.

Personally, I would like to see Florida Gardening Magazine come out monthly instead of 6 times a year. From what I understand, the editor does this part time. Maybe some of the knowlegeable people on this forum can contact them and submit more articles. That way, you don't have to be at the mercy of a newspaper editor. I love that magazine!

Jo

Jo, I think you have a "do-able" idea. I've worked for both a newspaper (the Florida Times-Union) and a publishing company and the answer is "yes!" to all of the above. Yes, cost of publishing anything on a regular basis is considered above all else. BUT, a letter writing campaign can spur action and those of you who are master gardeners should seriously consider writing for your newspaper or Fl Gardening. You probably won't earn but a pittance for your work, but dependable contributors from various areas (Gulf coast, central and east coast)could plant and keep a weekly column thriving. You might even convince Wae and Kathy Nelson to publish Florida Gardening monthly. (it's the only magazine of any kind I subscribe to). It's very easy to phone, fax or email a publication and ask for their writers guidlines. They even reply to snail-mail! cora

The Daytona Beach News Journal has cut and cut again on garden articles. There are no regular gardening columns now. When a lone gardening article does turn up, it's usually for something like the wattle fencing mentioned above.

A few years ago I checked out "Alys Clancy's Garden Guide"--not sure I have the title right--which was basically made up of her gardening columns for the Daytona Newspaper in the 60's in 70's--an interesting book, and a good example of how gardening journalism isn't what it used to be.

Sometimes I think there really may be less interest. I called the guy at the feed & seed a while back looking for some vegetable seeds. He said he'd stopped carrying them. He said, Used to be, just about all the old timers planted a vegetable garden, but now nobody's interested.

And were so many people using lawn services tweny years ago? I don't think so. Yard men, maybe. And lots of people mowed their own lawns and trimmed their own shrubs--or made their kids do it.

But then there are so many more people down here than there used to be, and if you go to a master gardener's plant sale you see there are A LOT of people still interested in gardening.

My guess is that it's becoming specialized, like so many other things. It used to be that for many people a vegetable garden, some fruit trees, some flowers, or at least keeping up the lawn, was a tradition--something you do whether you like it or not. Now tradition is breaking up and it's becoming hobby, and though it's a popular hobby, it's not popular in the same way that sports are popular, and so gardeners have to go to magazines like Florida gardening, or books on Florida gardening, here at the Florida Forum on Garden Web, or some of the good blogs and websites that are being created--almost none of which was around back in the good ol' days when Alys Clancy was writing her weekly gardening column for the Daytona paper.

And though I would like very much to see a weekly gardening colunn in the paper, I think overall there must be much more information out there now.

Bill

Lots of good comments here! Here's what I'm thinking so far:

1. We should ALL write our local newspapers and ask them to feature more articles and information on gardening in Florida. I read the paper front to back, myself, but even if I didn't, I would read a good Garden Section top to bottom.

2. Those of us so inclined should try our hands at writing an article ourselves, and submit it to various publications, like the newspaper, Florida Gardening, etc. (Perhaps if we got enough well written articles, we could compile them ourselves.........more pondering to do on THAT thought.)

3. Maybe we should all think more seriously about joining a local garden club. Oh, how I HATE monthly meetings, even when I LOVE the subject, but I'm willing to give it serious consideration, here. A group often has more clout than an individual, I suspect.

I'm just so tired of not being able to get my hands on enough written material for Florida gardens. Don't get me wrong...I LOVE this forum and the friends I've made here. But I also have a passion for books, magazines, and other printed materials, and want to increase my Florida Garden Library. I buy all the garden mags I can get my hands on, as I love to read the articles and see the inspirational photos, but I want MUCH MORE that's tailored to our unique gardening conditions.

I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my thoughts regarding this!

Marcia

I received the Sunday Sentinel and the only thing it contained was several bundles of ads. There was nothing else.

Self publication is great, but it does take money and eventually advertisers. We should support the magazine that is available and assist it to expand both in content and in number of issues printed.

I have already sent an email to the Sentinel before writing this and I am in the beginning stages of several timely articles.

As for joining gardening clubs, I would enjoy doing do, but since I work beginning in mid-afternoon until late night there are few opportunities to attend meetings. If there are meetings in the mornings I would join. Most meetings are not well publicized and thus the majority of the public are unaware of them.

We do need to take action instead of venting here. As a freelance journalist and writer I do know the power of the pen or nowadays the electronic pen. Linda

A clarification:

When I mentioned compiling articles ourselves, I wasn't thinking in terms of publishing an actual magazine or book. More along the lines of items that could be downloaded or given as handouts at plant swaps, etc. Something much smaller scale than a magazine. But, practically speaking, submitting an article for publication in an already established format such as a newspaper or Florida Gardening mag would be much easier to try. Might be kind of fun!

Marcia

Marcia, why is it I don't think you will join our daylily club? As you mentioned, I did do an extended handout. We gave it to people who purchased daylilies from us at the Leu Garden sale. Pretty pictures and club description on one side, daylily growing instructions on the other side. We hope that the growing instructions will cause people to keep the handout--our club meetings start again in September. That's when we will find out if that thing works. The handout was well received--the bromeliad people and another daylily club both wanted to copy it for their own use.

I can't speak for anyone else, and I am not diminishing the value of actual clubs, but for me this forum is my garden club. I can visit it when I have a few moments at work or in the evenings at home. Even at 2am if it's one of those nights.

I don't have to mark my calendar or plan on being free or spend money on gas or comb my hair or put on shoes. Once I get home from work, the last thing I want to do is leave the house again. I like being here with DH and the cats & dogs and I really value my home time.

I'm not much of a club person but I love the interaction with so many skilled and enthusiastic people. I ask my questions and share my triumphs when I have time and you all respond (thank you!) when you have time.

Works for me!

Kate

Shoot! don't ask me to join any more clubs! I am in 2 local rose societies and a garden club. This past Saturday I went to a Begonia society meeting...I haven't shelled out the $$ for membership yet.

I do want to throw in a plug for B.C. Manion. She is a Hillsborough County Master Gardener and writes for the Tampa Tribune. There are a lot of Saturdays (garden section day) when there isn't doddily-squat on gardening. But since B.C. has been with the T.T. we've had more and better articles on gardening. She has featured many MGs gardens and society events. I'm sure she is limited by what the Tribune wants. We don't, however, get tom m.'s articles.
You would THINK (duh?) that since gardening is the number one hobby there would be more in the newspaper.
Marcia-I want to see you B**** slap someone! hehe
Laura

Laura, I figured you'd go for the slapping routine! Hehehe! Let's storm 'em!!! You hold 'em down, and I'll KICK 'em!!

Beachlily, since I a) hate to go to scheduled meetings and b) have killed every daylily I've ever touched, I probably should pass on joining your group. However, I DO think it's wonderful that you have one and that you are an active participant. I really think garden clubs are cool, but I'm afraid I fall solidly into Kate's camp where my personal preferences are concerned.

Kate, this is MY Garden Club, too. And for all the same reasons you mention. Plus one: I am so contrary that when I know I have something scheduled for Tuesday at 10:00, I don't want to go ANYWHERE at that time. I want to go WEDNESDAY at 4:00!! I start out all gung-ho, and I'm really going to go every month, and it always ends up the same. I'm in the mood for a good meeting on a day it isn't scheduled for, and NOT in the mood on the day it IS. Perverse, I know. But at least I recognize that about myself and have quit joining things that I won't follow through on.

Laura, does Manion have anything published outside of the Trib? Like a collection of her articles or anything? Or online articles?

Marcia

Gee Marcia, I thought I was the only one who felt as you do. Our MG meetings are on Tues. and after working all day it's too much to ask for me to get presentable and drive 35min even if I really want to go. I prob won't show even if they changed the day. I joined the Bromeliad Society and in 2 yrs have never been to a meeting.
I guess that's why I love this forum and love reading any magazine I can afford along with groceries. (just throw that Southern Living right in there with the bread)I can do it when I want!!!
We're not contrary, we just know what we want, so there!

I have to share this, seeing as how there ore others with the same feeling about meetings. 5 years ago I sought out other quilters in my area, set up an email communications thing with them all and then held the first meeting at my house. It was great fun and everyone brought a finished quilt and a current project. We had a blast. They are still meeting and I still get invites but in 5 years I haven't attended a single gathering! I join them for fabric shopping trips once in a while, but the organized meeting thing just doesn't work for me! What a slacker I am.

Well I reckon that makes ME a slacker, too, Kate. I'm exactly the same way, and I really don't know WHY. But suddenly when I've got a meeting that's scheduled it becomes a "HAVE to" thing instead of a "WANT to" thing. And then I end up not enjoying it at all, instead of having fun like I intended to. I will say, though, that I have never actually SET UP a group and then not gone before, so you've done me one better, there! *snicker*

It's not like Plant Swaps, though...I think because those aren't set up on a fixed basis. I love special events. Just not regularly scheduled ones.

Aren't we all funny with our quirks and eccentricities? What works for one doesn't do it for another. I know people who wouldn't give you two cents for talking gardening on the computer, but love to go to garden club meetings and luncheons and events. Diff'rent strokes, an' all of that!

Coffeemom, you can be a slacker with me and Kate! I suspect there are at least a FEW of us here!

Marcia

I stand corrected about my garden reporter BC Manion. The articles i found recently were on quilting and glass making and the family that was on that TV show where they built a new house in a week. Our garden writer has been hijacked!

Aw, too bad, Laura! Your Garden Writer is probably hanging out at a local bar with mine, killing time between unemployment checks! Waaaaaaah.......

Marcia

There are twenty two posts in this thread above mine which is a clear illustration of why gardening related materials in newspapers has been declining. More and more people are turning to the Internet for this sort of thing.

Bigger selection of material, often more timely, with much greater potential for useful feedback. Newspapers are no longer a useful medium for many subjects, gardening being one of them.

.....Alan.

That may be true to a certain extent, Alan, and I sure wouldn't trade my internet for a newspaper, but I would STILL like to see a wider variety of topics in the papers, including a much better garden section. Even when I didn't get the paper daily, I always bought the Sunday edition JUST for the Garden Section. I want it back! It's nice to start a weekend morning off with coffee and an interesting garden article. Not BETTER than the internet, but a nice addition TO it. I want both. (Of course, that's just me, but I suspect there are others who might agree.) I don't know why we live in such an either/or world...*sigh*

Marcia

The same has occured with the Palm Beach Post, which in the recent past would publish front section (breathtaking) articles on plants and plantsmen, etc.

After talking with a garden writer with Cox Publishing, the dropping of garden sections and articles is all based ont he bottom line. Traditional print newspapers are losing money (prolly cuz of other technologies), and gardening sections make NO MONEY---there are no advertisers to support the 4-8 page section. So, as in the case of the Palm Beach Post, they have reconfigured it to be a boring HGTV--when they talk about real estate and the (boring) "typical" people who choose one development over another, etc. This formula has real estate agents nad home builders and contractors/services pumping in HUGE advertising dollars to make the section feasible. Garden bits fall into it, but they don't allow the paper to continue to make money to survive.

Although Florida Gardening is a nice resource, I have a concern that there still a lot of mis-information in that publication even after editing. In that last issue, plants in photos were not properly identified, and the article on Norfolk Island Pines was filled with gross inaccuracies/theories that were much more observations that made a conversational piece but nothing worthy of a sold garden/horticultural publication.

Horticulture in Florida is in trouble on a variety of levels. In other areas of the Southeast, the bond with it and value collectively held for horticulture is must stronger and more dignified.

For the past two years, I've written a column in the Tampa Tribune (South Tampa News) under the heading, "Nature's Canvas". Everything from Orchids to Bamboo to you name it. The Tampa Tribune in it's wisdom has shut down all of the community papers and combined them in a cost-saving measure. Over a month ago, I was told to have patience and all the local columnists would return. That's the last I've heard from my "New Young Hip" editor. None of the other local "rags" are interested in gardening columns (I've sent them MANY articles). I'm thinking of starting an online gardening column - maybe that's how we'll beat 'em. I miss writing and more importantly, I miss sharing knowledge and stories with people about things that "grow".

I'm sure it is true that newspapers are primarily interested in their bottom line, and that's profit. But that's always been the case, and yet there used to be a nice garden section, up until very recently. I think there should be some way to make that happen again. I don't understand why advertisers for plants and garden products can't be found to help pay the way, but that's a whole 'nuther topic, I reckon.

As for Florida Gardening...if there are inaccuracies (and frankly, I haven't read a book, magazine, newspaper or much of anything else lately that doesn't have at least SOME), surely that's all the more reason to try submitting well-written and accurate articles to them. They can only be as good as their contributors, right?

Lastly, Longwoodgradms, I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by horticulture in other areas of the southeast being more "dignified." I'm not sure I believe that, but even if it is true, is it necessarily a good thing? My personal idea of gardening isn't one where only the higher educated and more "dignified" sorts of people are eligible to participate. That doesn't sound right to me, but then, maybe I just don't understand what you mean.

Marcia

I'm with you, Tampaart...seems like we may have to find our own way to get info out there, beyond just what we share in this wonderful forum. It's obvious the newspapers have tossed our garden sections on the compost pile!

Marcia

What *EYE* want to know is where Laura found a begonia society in Zone 9. judy in sanford

Well, after reading all of these thoughts, I'm more sure than ever that a garden club could be a fulfilling experience. I've never been a "joiner" but after retirement, I did become a Master Gardener. Quit after 5 years dues to political issues within the program. By that time I had already joined one daylily club (in Sanford) and then joined the second one two years ago. In September I will be the President of that second club. We encourage each other; we try to teach each other; surely we enjoy the company of each other. I drive from beachside (in Daytona) to Leu Gardens to attend these meetings and apparently they add an indefinable something to my life. I usually get there early so that I can spend some time in the Gardens. Nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon! Without print resources, gardening for me is a lonely persuit. Apparently these forums don't fill that need. It is fun to get together with other interested people to talk about beautiful blooms and how to make more of them! Now you have me looking forward to September!

Beachlily, I think it is SUPER that you have found something you enjoy so much, and that it enriches your gardening experience. I say whatever works for you is exactly the right thing to do! I love the thought of everything you mention...in theory. Wish I were better about the follow-through part. But I'm really happy to know you have such fun with it all. I think that's wonderful!! Hope you will always continue to stop by here and pass on tidbits to us. I always enjoy hearing about your daylilies, for sure!

Marcia

the chi-town tribune is trying to dump the sentinel, well o.k. sell it off so i doubt they care if the gardening section suffers. having grown up in chicago i worship the tribune, infact a yearly christmas gift is a sunday subscription to the chicago trib, that's how much i love that massive paper LOL it's usually 4X thicker than the sentinel. but the sentinel has never been much of a paper to me atleast, it's not much into world events or politics or even gardening unlike the trib. the tribune's gardening section is bigger than our first section LOL. i'd love to see alot more local gardening focus. when i first moved down here 10 yrs ago there was a tropical gardening magazine based out of somewhere south of orlando, that went under w/in 2 yrs. i loved that magazine, it had a good amount of techincal info (kinda scientific) peppered w/ info on local FL stuff! ~ liz

I agree the Sentinel's not all that much, but it's OURS, and I'd love to see it the best it can be. But after reading all the comments in this thread, I've begun to realize it probably ain't gonna happen. That's just sad. We deserve better!

Marcia

Judy--there is a Tampa chapter of the AMerican Begonia Society. They had their first judged begonia show in late February if I recall right.

Marcia--the word "dignified" is the level of respect and development of horticultural endeavors. Comparatively speaking, there is much less experience with plants and/or maintenance issues with landscaping companies and their employees (illegal workers is yet another issue)...and,the quality of programming and other aspects of local botanical gardens is one that combines visitor needs with education and display and overall non-profit health. I have not encountered so much scoffing at "gardening" than in FL while mixing with people at various events--it's as if horticulture is equated with only rich people and then, only a subclass would dare to do it for them. I've also read of many city-governemnt based initiatives that seem to sound "groundbreaking" or "modern advances" that are off the mark (Port St. Lucie in particular!) It's like they are given a brochure and they buy a program or idea and have no grasp of hte context for its use.

Perhaps another interesting observation is how belligerent many people are to the whole water restriction thing in south FLorida (is it same elsewhere?). Darn near EVERYONE has an excuse (placing blame on the water district, not me, I don't wanna, catch me if you can, blah blah). I have experienced droughts in other regions with same enforced restirctions and all, and in FLorida I've seen a lot of arrogance and indifference, even with governments. This holds true to a lot of professionals that give misleading info publicly about info that tends to blatantly undermine known facts about what plants need more water, when to water and how much.

In a nutshell, there is less overall population that holds high regard or dignity with a passion of horticulture and the closely related good land stewardship and good (proven) maintenance practices. Go to other regions (more like regional pockets), and nearly everyone looks to a single botanical garden source as the leader or as a world-class example of a organization, etc. Or, all understand the need for say, shade trees, or drought-tolerant plants and thus it is easier to locate these plants in nurseries. Lots of things comparatively speaking make FL such a drought for the horticultural passion that dominates other areas of the US and Canada. "landscaping (horticulture)" is a business in FLorida, not a passion or lifestyle across the board.

Gee, I hadn't noticed nearly as much of this as you seem to have, even though I've lived a lot of other places, too. I guess all I can say is I'm sorry that Florida is such a disappointment to you. I, myself, find more and more people with a passion for gardening everywhere I look. There are things that are lacking, but I don't see us as unenlightened overall as the picture you paint.

Maybe I'm just unrealistic or overly optimistic, but even without the Sentinel Gardening Section, I find a world of folks out there learning from and sharing with each other. And while horitculture may not be a passion or lifestyle "across the board," it seems to be so for a lot of my friends and acquaintances.

Marcia

Make that "horticulure," of course. Wish this board offered an edit feature.

Marcia, perhaps the issue with FL gardening is that most the gardeners have moved from some other region where, of course, they were expert. After all, if you have lived somewhere for 45 years and you garden .... anyway. A couple of years ago neighbor chastised me for lack of year around color in my front yard. Nevermine that my yellow house and chosen landscape plants seemed colorful enuf for me. I took her advise (with the attitude of "you want color ... I'll give you color) and added 6 of the gaudiest crotons you could imagine. What does she do? In October she puts yellow plastic daffodils among her red mulch for her year around color. She just removed them last week.

This is just a long way of saying that some people who move from other areas have a hard time with gardening in FL. It isn't the same as up "home". I hope not, or else Ohio is a lot more tropical than I think it is! They can't adjust to different planting times (think tomatoes) and they have difficulty adjusting to sand as a planting medium instead of loam. I've never had loam, so this is no disadvantage to me. Its easier planting than red GA clay. I had one man when I answered the phone for the MG's who flatly refused to fertilize his tomatoes because he never had to do it up wherever. He lives about 4 blocks from me and has told me to my face that I waste a lot of good effort by growing the plants I do. I respectfully disagree as I'm off to fertilize my lemon tree in case it rains!

Interesting points, Beachlily, but I actually don't have a problem with Florida gardeners, as a rule. At least not wholesale. Some of them are great gardeners with good, sensible landscape design elements, and some are not. Pretty much the same as every place I've ever lived. Others may not feel that way, but I like the gardening community here, myself.

Marcia

Hey, what's wrong with Native Floridian Gardeners? Puffing out chest?

Nuthin', as far as I can see, Tampaart! I like us pretty well, myself! (Yes, I'm a native Floridian, too). But I don't have a problem with the transplanted ones, either, most of the time.

Marcia

Speaking as a transplant - twice! - I understand the shock of trying to develop a garden in Florida based on what I learned elsewhere. I've lived in 7 states and gardened in all of them from North Dakota to Florida, up to Baltimore by way of Atlanta and then back to Florida. It really is different here. I think many transplants get discouraged, not because they don't respect gardening or because they are too unsophisticated to 'get it', but because it's hard. Most places you have a gardening season. You plan for it, you set it up, you maintain it during the nicest part of the year to be outside, then you rest for a couple months before starting all over again. In Florida the garden is relentless. If you rest, the weeds or bugs take over. I'm addicted as are the other members of this forum, but many people came here with thoughts of having a lovely yard only to be beaten down by the heat/drought/rain/'fill in the blank'. I've said it before: what we do in Florida is Xtreme Gardening.

Marcia, your point about the forum and other lovers of gardening (the "gardening community") is completely true. The fact you inferred my comments that never mentioned such is a bit disheartening. I was and continue to talk about the state-wide/regional horticultural culture--direct my conerns specifically about a plant society (or strictly ONLY the hundred on this forum) and it doesn't make sense.

Others make good points, too. Are Floridians (new and old alike) in constant zone denial? Do people try to make generalities too quickly across the entire state as compared to USDA zones and their local soils? Perhaps this is what makes LOCAL resources that much more important, yet comparatively lacking. Perhaps the most famous garden in Florida is Fairchild. However, much is not so easily translatable to a Floridian in Ocala or Jacksonville. Plus, IFAS info is inconsistently presented by county, and often it's research is not disseminated cleanly as being from Gainesville or once of it's research arms, say in Ft. Lauderdale. There can be huge implications of comments of research recommendations on results from the 2 sites when climate or soil pH is involved.

Just more thoughts.

Okay, Longwood, I concede. Apparently, I just don't understand what you are trying to say.

My first comments were directed to your implication that horticulture is much more dignified in other southeastern states than it is in Florida. I stand by my response that I don't buy that.

I understand that you aren't talking about this forum, but the rest of what you said in subsequent posts just seems to me to be very critical of Florida gardeners as a whole, and I'm not at all sure that's fair. We DO know what horticulture is down here, and I've seen no evidence that we are worse in our regard for it than most parts of the south. And those of us who have lived here all our lives certainly have respect for the art and science involved with gardening and good stewardship of the land.

Sadly, many people move here with no basic understanding of the ecology of the state, and they struggle to adapt to our unique environment. Adding to the problem are developers and government officials, but they are pretty much the same everywhere. We know what motivates THEM, and I don't think they are worse here than in many (most?) other states.

But we seem to be going in circles with this conversation, so I'm done with it, I think. I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the state of horticulture in Florida, as compared to other locales in general, but I'm moving on to other topics now.

Marcia