Sourcing Organic Topsoil in Bulk

15 years ago

Good afternoon all... I am a new member to the forum, and have enjoyed reading some of the discussions here.

My wife and I are starting a new raised bed for growing veggies. Our hope is to keep it as close to organic as possible. In particular, I am wondering what the best material is to fill the bed. I understand that a mix of topsoil, compost and sand is typically used.

I have seen small bags of "organic potting mix" at Home Depot, but I would need dozens and dozens of them, and they aren't cheap. I have googled "topsoil Orlando," and get a few dirt/soil suppliers, but none specifically offer organic.

Any suggestions or sources?

Thanks.

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Comments (7)

solstice98
15 years ago
Welcome to the forum!

I have to admit that at first I thought this might be an April Fool's posting, thinking that soil is soil and it's what you use on your plants that makes gardening organic or not organic. But I googled organic soil and found a site that might be what you are looking for. It isn't a supplier of soil, but it tells you what qualifies as 'organic' and how to put together your own.

Hope that helps.
(and sorry for doubting you at first!)

Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: Organic potting mix information
jonnys
15 years ago
Nothings going to be cheap especially if its marketed organic. I would take a ride out to the dump, bring a shovel and load up with as much compost as an aching back will allow you. Yes there is glass, plastic, and other things that dont break down, but it can be screened, or leave it (the lazy/my way). Best of all, its free, you only have to provide your own labour. Other than that, there are a few sources around town that sell topsoil, though it isn't cheap. Sources like landscape supply will sell topsoil by the cubic yard. Good luck with your new garden!
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First, I first want to thank everyone for responding. Ah yes, using the "O" word always takes us down a philosophical path doesn't it? :) In no way am I trying to bait non-"O" believers, but for folks interested in a vendor that sells "O" seeds (check out what "O" means, etc): Apparently I need to clarify a point. It wasn't my intent to start a philosophical debate either. I merely wished to point out the common misconceptions about what the label means and doesn't mean when it comes to seed and the misleading marketing tactics used by many vendors. We get many posts here from under-informed home gardeners who think that if they want to practice organic gardening then they MUST buy seeds labeled "organic" and that simply isn't true. So while it is true that Botanical Interests is one rare exception to that misleading marketing practice, its documentation applies only to them and doesn't mitigate the problem of false advertising by any other vendor. I practice organic gardening and used to be an "o" certified grower. I had to give up my certification several years ago due to soil contamination from contaminated seed. Even the fact that that seed was from a certified organic supplier made no difference in the results. Perhaps nc-crn said it best: As mentioned...organic vs non-organic seed source (unless treated) means very little. The main (and almost only) benefit to organic seed is supporting those who grow organically and harvest organic seed as part of their cropping system. Dave
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Sequoia, I'm in Sacramento. Which city are you in or near? You asked "Where would one order bulk fertilizers, amendments, sprays, etc? I maintain a number of large gardens, and am making an effort to switch them to organics, but I need or purchase on a larger scale than a couple small boxes here and there." You could do all the following if you could find a landscaper who would be willing to deliver their grass clippings to your gardens: (And since the landscaper probably has to pay to dispose of the clippings now, he should be happy to let you have them for Free!) 1. Never rototill or weed again. 2. Transform your soil, even if it's terrible now, to the best soil in the world. 3. Never spend one more cent for fertilizers or soil conditioners. 4. Conserve water. 5. Encourage an explosion in the populatiosn of beneficial soil microorganisms and earthworms in your soil. 6. And significantly increase the yields from your gardens. I've been an organic, mulch gardener since 1972. I haven't disturbed my soil in any way, except to plant seeds and seedlings- and ocassionally dig up some worms to give to fellow gardeners. I've spent not one cent for fertilizers, soil conditioners, soil tests (Why waste the money when the "treatment" is always the same, no matter what the findings? Namely Add More Organic Material.) herbicedes, and have so few problems with insects that the only chemical I use is Bt for caterpillars, and not even that some years. There IS the issue of chemical fertilizers used on lawns often containing herbicides, too. But a few years ago I spoke at length to someone at the Univ. of Oregon, which does consulting work for the EPA. The person agreed that a whole series of events would have to occur before pesticide residues on lawn clippings would be a problem. (The pesticide would have to be very toxic,and most of those have been banned in Calif, a great deal of residue would have to be present, the uncountable trillions of microbes in the soil would have to have NO effect on it, which is highly unlikely, and the plants would have to absorb it in high enough quantities to do harm. You are almost without doubt in much greater danger from the ride to and from your gardens than you ever would be from some chemical in clippings.) But if you simply object to introducing any kind of chemicals into your garden, which I could completely understand, another way to go would be to grow your own mulch. I've twice seen a special on PBS about a tomato farmer who took over the family farm when his father retired. His dad had used "traditional methods"- plowing, chemical fertilizers, and herbicides. But his son just grew some kind of cover crop- which the show irritatinly didn't identify- which got about ten feet tall. He just crushed it flat with his tractor, and planted his tomatoes right through the residue, with a special device he built himself. He greatly reduced his fuel costs (does That look good now?) virtually eliminated erosion, eliminated weeding, reduced watering needs, and increased his yield per acre from 15 bushles to 40 !!! There are much better ways to garden, or farm, than "traditional methods." Maybe when diesel fuel reaches five bucks a gallon, more farmers will try them. If you'd like to talk more about my suggestion, please e-mail me. Tyrell in Sacto
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Rhizo, thanks for the heads up. I thought mushroom compost was the good stuff. Anyway, the price was prohibitive -- not the vendors' fault; he's just too far away and it added a LOT to the cost. They were pleasant and helpful folks and I just wish they were closer. My soil looks rich. It's more brown than red, but I know the kind you are talking about. I have clay but it's not CLAY. It's even dark on top... half an inch! It helps that the land probably hasn't been anything except pasture for decades since Alabama was settled by white men. If you think that means I have more henbit and wild garlic than grass, you're right! I have been away for a long time, but I grew up in the South so my first reaction was more like resigned acceptance than grief. :) I already had it turned to tear up the thick sod and after we get a good rain we'll plow it up. After the first year -- and maybe the second -- I hope to go plow-less and tiller-less. But getting holes dug for my berry bushes was slow enough; I could never have done the garden by hand. I did find out that the Decatur-Morgan Landfill gives away FREE compost at the dump. I seriously don't think my muscles are up to showing up with a shovel and getting a significant amount. How good it is, I don't know. I am guessing I need 5+ cubic yards, but at least half of that could be in a stable form to just break up the soil a bit, like maybe humus. If all else fails, I will price shop for bags of it and make a very trips. After I get the spring chores done, I'll hit the Hartselle dump for a $5 pickup truck load of mulch (they scoop; free if you scoop) and compost it for next year along with my weeds and food scraps and coffee grounds and so forth. It's just this year that's a problem. I found topsoil locally in Hartselle; $95 for a small truck (8 ton), $145 for the big truck. I did not ask if it was screened, because my primary use is to fill an area and put ground cover on top for erosion control.
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Comments (7)
Nursuries/garden centers and big box stores (home depot or Lowes) sell it by bulk. Also, look in the Georgia Farmers and Consumers Market Bulletin ads online. See link below. Or go to Lowes and get the 3 cu. ft. bags of pine bark mini-nuggets for $2.98 a bag (sku # 87940). Mix it in with your dirt. It works great! They also sell an excellent Organic Soil Conditioner by Garden Plus (sku # 97675) made of milled pine bark 2 cu. ft. bag for 2.84. It is better than the Nature's Helper because they don't put all of that sand in it. Sand is volume and weight and cheap, but of no value to the soil. But it breaks down more quickly than the mini-nuggets do. The mini-nuggets keep their volume longer and allow air to get to your plant roots. Do a soil test to see if you need to adjust the pH of the soil for the plants you grow. Garden centers/nursuries or the U of GA county extension (1-800-AskUGA1)service will test your samples for less than $10. A good source of free or cheap mulch is from tree removal services. Most of them have to pay to dump their wood chips at a landfill. So if they are local to you they will bring it to you for a few dollars to cover their gasoline expense. I have had some give it to me free, but if it is a hot day I'll have a pack of cold Cokes in the fridge for them. I have them dump the pile at the side of the yard and spread what I could not use in a mound about 2 feet high. It will grow wild mushrooms/toadstools and such fungus type stuff that breaks it down rather quickly. If you turn it so it gets air it speeds things up. Otherwise it takes a couple of years or so to make good black compost. But don't put these wood chips next to your house. Keep them at least a foot away to minimize the risk of termites. Don't dig or turn the dirt within a foot of your house, either. There is a toxic chemical barrier in the dirt to keep the termites away from the house. John Here is a link that might be useful: GA Farmers & Consumers Market Bulletin ads
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tclynx
15 years ago
It might not be quite organic but you might look into getting some mushroom compost from montery mushroom farm. Could get a whole pickup truck load for less than a big bag of good potting soil.

As a resident of Orange county you could also contact the landfills and transfer stations to see which one has compost available which you can get for free, bring your own shovel and containers. It might not be "registered organic" since it really is just the yard waste that gets collected and composted, it might not be perfect stuff (I often find glass and odd bits in it since it really is what people put out for yard waste collection) but I've grown stuff in it. It already has a mix of sand/dirt in it.

Personally, I would do something more like lasagna gardening rather than trying to create a soil mix for the raised beds. I find that down here the more compost and organic matter you have, the more moisture you retain. Also, the more organic matter, the less the plants seem to suffer from nematodes. Now, all organic matter will break down and you will need to continue topping up the beds but it will be cheaper than buying "organic" dirt. I have lots of raised garden beds (to me raised bed means built on top of the ground as in a mound but I do not have any "sides" on my raised beds as they make weeding difficult.)

Now if you really must buy "topsoil" and want good stuff. Go to nursery centers (not any of the big box stores) and see if they sell it in bulk. I know there is a place close to me that has big piles of bulk mulch and compost and probably soil of some sort. It will cost you so you are better off getting a good look at what they are selling before you agree to a price.
jay-wpb
15 years ago
I plant everything (veggies I mean) in compost from the waste authority. I do not add anything to it except fertilizer and mulch. It works for me!!!
hatdance
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks everyone for the advice. No, it wasn't meant to be an April Fool's gag! I just figured that starting with soil that wasn't overly contaminated would be smart. Will definitely check out the county and Monterey Mushroom. By searching them, I also discovered Volusia Shed, which might be a good option as well. Thanks to all!
palmcityfl
15 years ago
I agree with the posters here, go to your county's landfill where yard wastes are ground into mulch. The mulch breaks down into compost quickly because it consists of palm fronds, leaves and tree limbs. If you're lucky you'll find a mulch pile that has been sitting for a few months and the composting has already begun. Here in Martin County, mulch and compost is free. County workers will even load your truck or trailer for you.
rr_cfl
13 years ago
I've used York Excavating to deliver high quality top soil to several of my projects in Central Florida. I'm not sure if it's organic but our plants sure seem to like it :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Topsoil

Sourcing Organic Topsoil in Bulk

Comments (7)

solstice98

jonnys

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tclynx

jay-wpb

hatdance
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palmcityfl

rr_cfl

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Sourcing Organic Topsoil in Bulk

Comments (7)

solstice98

jonnys

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tclynx

jay-wpb

hatdanceOriginal Author

palmcityfl

rr_cfl

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hatdance
Original Author