This is a list of trees NYS dept conservation is offering. of 100 or 250. Minimum hgt. 5" Austrian Pine (Pinus nigra): Two-year seedling. European source. Avg. hgt. 5"-16". $30/100 unit, $40/250 unit Pitch Pine (Pinus rigida): Two-year seedling. Long Island source. Avg. hgt. 5"-10". $30/100 unit, $40/250 unit Red Pine (Pinus resinosa): Three-year seedling. New York source. Avg. hgt. 8"-12". $30/100 unit, $40/250 unit Scotch Pine (Pinus sylvestris): Two-year seedling. New York orchard. Boonville or Danish strain. Avg. hgt. 5"-8". $30/100 unit, $40/250 unit White Pine (Pinus strobus): Three-year seedling. New York source. Avg. hgt. 5"-12". $30/100 unit, $40/250 unit Norway Spruce (Picea abies): Three-year seedling. New York source. Avg. hgt. 8"-14". $30/100 unit, $45/250 unit White Spruce (Picea glauca): Three-year seedling. New York source. Avg. hgt. 8"-14". $30/100 unit, $45/250 unit Douglas Fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii): Three-year seedling. Lincoln source. Avg. hgt. 5"-10". $30/100 unit, $50/250 unit Balsam Fir (Abies balsamea): Three-year seedling. New York orchard. Avg. hgt. 6"-10". $35/100 unit, $65/250. European Larch (Larix decidua): Two-year seedling. New York orchard. Avg. hgt. 10"-14". $30/100 unit, $45/250 unit Japanese Larch (Larix kaempferi): Two-year seedling. New York orchard. Avg. hgt. 10"-14". $30/100 unit, $45/250. Would any of these other trees meet xmas tree standards?

Tressa; I've seen all our local mountain trees growing down in the hot valley around Riverside; Coulter Pine, Jeffrey Pine, Ponderosa Pine, Incense Cedar, Sugar Pine, Coastal Redwood, Red Cedar, Pinion Pine, Juniper, and Lodgepole Pine. I have a Giant Sequoia in my front yard that's thriving. The big Christmas-tree cedars you see around town are Deodar Cedar, native to the Himalayas. These all require irrigation in our climate, probably why they're not grown more extensively. The only mountain trees I haven't seen do well in the hot valleys are Black Oak and the Dogwoods. You can get any of these trees at Fox Farm Nursery on Fox Farm Rd. by Vons in Big Bear. By the way, I grow 100 varieties of apples on 200 hrs. of chill also; things are not always as you suppose. Applenut

Tom: No, I never got any call and no pictures. I would try some of their trees, but since they are from a planted row and not a forest stand, they probably can't be called a "land race"--trees planted in a row simply don't have the kind of competition that results in sorting out well for the stronger more locally adapted ones. But it could still be the case that they are well adapted for their, and your climate. As for the Abies grandis--I have no experience. I think with many of the trees you might want to try, it might be best to think of them as specimen trees in a kind of arboretum kind of planting. For forest plantings I think you should only go with "tried-and-true" kinds of things--there is just too much effort and land involved in trying something for a forest planting that may come to nothing--or nothing really beautiful. I think your choices are red pine, white pine, Norway spruce, and the European, Japanese, and Hybrid larches. Possibly white spruce, but I don't think that will give you anything as good as the others. Personally I don't think Colorado blue spruce would give you much in the way of a really beautiful forest stand, but you could try a half acre or so just for fun. Of course you have the arborvitae growing there already, which you love. Of the choices you have, I think the NS and the white pine are the ones that deserve the most effort/land. But red pine for you up there may be a good third choice. And I would definately do some larches, but I have to admit that I have never seen them growing in a forest stand, except for very small patches or in mixtures. They may be best as occasional trees or groups mixed in with white pine and NS, or as scattered landscape trees as backdrops, etc. In the fall they are absolutely stunning when seen from a distance in a landscape--maybve at the edge of a stand of NS or white pine, etc. and in the spring when they first "green up" they are also very special. But they will grow very, very well in a pure forest stand--what I am saying is that I really don't know what the "beauty" or "visual effect" of such a stand would be. But give them a try for a forest stand, but also look at them as "landscape enhancers," or as a tree in mixture with the white pine and NS. And as for the larches, I am not sure the hybrid is really necessary--both the European and Japanese will grow very, very fast for you there. There is a seed source issue with the European larch, according to John Genys who did a provenance trial with them here in MD. I can't give any specific guidance except to say if you can find a source from some place close to you there in WI you might come up with a good land race. There may be an issue with the Japanese larch, but I know next to nothing about that. Yes, the long rooted bareroot trees are the way to go. When I plant I take the extra time to make sure I get the roots down as far as they can go into the hole, spread somewhat, and close it carefully. I can give you some specific pointers on how to do this reliably and effeciently if you wish--nothing really special, but if you have never planted bareroot seedlings before, I might be able to help you get on a really fast learning curve. Good bareroot trees planted properly never need watering in most reasonably moist climates if planted early enough--at least three weeks before bud break. Even here in VA if I get them in early enough I should not have to water if we get "normal" rains. --Spruce

There are N. American pine species naturalizing in the vicinity of South American pine plantations. If these runaway pines are really and truly crowding out some native plant community, then I agree with those throwing their hands up in the air about this tragedy. But if they're simply colonizing land that long ago was cleared for agriculture, probably holds few to no native plants, etc......what's the harm? I don't expect all to agree with me on this-I also don't think it a great tragedy that a few Scots pines or Norway spruce have naturalized somewhere-but in my hierarchy of things to worry about, it's the obvious bad actors-things like common buckthorn, which really can destroy a woods, that i believe we should be concentrating on. Sometimes you'll read some Wild Ones pamphlet or something where somebody's all up in arms because some tawny orange daylilies are growing in the ditch somewhere. I want to grab them by the collar and shake vigorously. Daylilies in the ditch will not be the end of nature as we know it! At the end of the day, it is novel ecosystems that are being created. They're surely not all good, but they're just as surely not all bad. And this is not a new thing. American Indians, for one example, have been moving plants around for millenia. Why that gets a pass, but not some more recent effort to get something growing where it was not previously I don't know.