Yeah! Ken's comments pretty much say it all with how they all do die. My observations as well with one large exception... Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Van Pelt's Blue'. I've never planted one here but had a cutting or two with not enough roots during mid-summer potting up croak shorly after. This special plant has cold-hardiness cabability of -30 I believe and was selected thru Arrowhead Alpines I think. You'll have to check on that though.

You outta plant some Calocedrus, Carl Fuch's Deodar selections, Western Hemlocks, Sciadopity's should be easy, Cedrus libani var. stenocoma... etc-.

Dax

so ... what??? .. you dont want more from me ... lol ...

stanley used sell them for 3 to 4 bucks each.. tiny ... a boxful for what .... 45 to 60 bucks... what do you have to lose... go for it ....

i fully understand the I CAN DO IT BETTER then him logic.. literally.. been there.. done that .... too many times to admit.. on too many differing plants ... NEVER STOPPED ME ......

so dont let it stop you ... ken

PS: you said: these plants appeal to me very much

========

ever notice that absolutely everything that is not zone appropriate.. is the most intriguing plant you ever saw ... lol ...

the wind has just started here.. what you got.. is coming to get me.. 30 to 40 mph winds with gusts to 50 ... good luck trees ... thank god there arent any leaves on them ...

Thnx Dax. This is classic winter-time garden dreaming going on here, so news, good, bad, or indifferent is all welcome. I'm going to go ahead and re-review Van Pelts and see if it has the aesthetic attributes I'm after. Could well be the one to try.

On the disease issue, to what extent do any of you believe the Phytopthora lateralus is purchased along with the plant? I guess one possible very undesirable consequence of messing with these things would be if I were to introduce this pathogen into my soil up there, potentially causing problems for the mainstay conifer there-Thuja occidentalis. Of course, that species may well have higher tolerance to this disease, but that would be a serious *uck-up if it were to occur! Not just for my little slice of heaven, but for the whole area, as T. occidentalis is VERY common in the woods there.

Also, and somewhat related, what are your impressions of Forest Farm stock for this genus generally. Years ago, I did purchase plants from them, albeit perennial herbaceous stuff, and was impressed back then by the quality and shipping care taken by this firm.

+oM

Hi Ken. You, me, and Dax must apparently be at our leisure this morning! Yes, we did indeed get dumped on overnight. My two big Thujas in front of the house are sagging. Once the crazy wind starts, that will be remedied.

I'm game for trying. It's really the thought of spreading a virulent root-rot fungus that most gives me pause. But perhaps, that's not a legitimate concern(?) with Thuja.

I'm mostly not one to 'pine' for those plants that won't grow here. We have so many great things to work with. But......I simply love the type of foliage found on things like Thuja, Chamae's, etc. and something in a bluish shade would be quite exciting to me.

+oM

Excuse me for barging in on the little threesome you guys have going on, but I'm wondering Tom if you grow or have tried Thuja plicata up there? While I'm not aware of a blue variety, there may be some, and it seems to fit into your foliage and size requirements. Borderline hardy there, I assume, but it sounds like you've got sufficient protected sites with high moisture. I have 'Holly Turner' and the foliage is absolutely lush. One of those you just have to touch every time you walk by.

As far as other blues, I second Dax's recommendation on 'Karl Fuchs' Deodar -- very cold hardy with no winter burn for us.

Can't help you much on the lawson cypress -- the only one I tried died the first summer. I have also been impressed with everything I've bought from Forest Farm, but their shipping is sky high now. I ordered a J. maple from them this year and the shipping was more than the tree.

Ken, I'm ROFLMBO: "ever notice that absolutely everything that is not zone appropriate.. is the most intriguing plant you ever saw". Truer words were never spoken!

Kim

That 'Van Pelt's Blue' is something Tom, it's not to be confused to 'Van Pelt's' which according to the history of 'Van Pelt's Blue' might not be the same plant, however I don't think it's ever been, resolved.

Forestfarm, great.

The most pathogen-free nursery stock is sent from Heritage Seedlings. I have no idea what they add to the media mix, but it's bright orange and smells fresh as citrus. All the media as well smells this way. I can't describe any other way than it's a clean smell, I guess like buying a new car... super nursery stock, but you must purchase in bulk quantities and/or a certain dollar amount. For instance, I once spent 80 dollars on 8 or 10 Taxodium distichum 3' graft whips of 'Mickelson'/'Shawnee Brave'... that was a good deal.

Dax

OK I'm back. Guess I should have checked over the snow blower BEFORE it snowed. 16 inches is all we got.

Appreciate your chiming in on this thread, which, btw, is nearly identical to one I started on Dec. 10 of '08.

Kim, I've got a smattering of Green Giants, with their half-parentage in plicata. So far, no problems with those. I'm keeping them well away from the native Thujas.......not sure why, but I have a concern with polluting the genetics of a very hardy species with what could be less hardy genes. As I alluded to upthread, my little woods lies within an area that is full of Thuja o's.

Dax, I am intrigued by what you report about Heritage. Is this a situation where they actually warrant their stock to be pathogen-free? Or would it be more accurate to say simply that they pay more attention to this issue than most? At any rate, I need to familiarize myself with them, Thanks.

Must be honest, I've never really considered such items as Deodar, Calocedrus, Cedrus, etc. Just ignorance on my part. That gives me some things to learn about!

+oM

Dax and Tom -- I was just reading an article yesterday in the British Conifer Society Journal, Autumn 2009, discussing last summer's visit to Klyn Nurseries in Ohio. Klyn uses a potting mix that contains 10% municipal sewage sludge, which they described as looking just like composted bark and smelling "quite pleasant". The owner of Klyn also indicated "it is highly beneficial, supplying nutrients and also helping to suppress soil-borne pests and diseases such as Verticillium, Phytopthora and nematodes."

Kim

Hi Kim. Nothing at all against using "biosolids", the preferred term these days, as part of a mix. Most typically, the biosolids are used as an ingredient in making compost, the other ingredient typically being ground up yardwaste. I was on a team looking into doing just this in my community a few years back.

But my point is this: It's not the biosolids that give such a potting mix extra disease suppression, but rather, the compost itself, whether biosolids were used to produce it or not. Specifically, composts in which cellulosic materials (woodchips, etc) are a significant component. In the curing stage, these composts are colonized by actinomycetes and a few other microbes that do indeed show a disease suppression capability.

I've been a composter forever and I'm all for the use of these "waste" materials.

Did a bunch of looking at Van Pelts Blue, etc. Any of you guys know a good source for that variety? I suppose ideally that I'd like ten or fewer. Heritage turns out to be deciduous only. Looks like a good firm though.

+oM

Re: Heritage

They sell conifers too. I've asked about the normal roundabout seedlings, Norway Spruce, White Pine, and they sell those all the time. You'll just have to get on their catalog mailer list. Last spring I bought 25 3-year Pinus koraiensis seedlings (3" each). Nobody in the world sells though, typically...

Dax

Thnx Dax, will investigate further. Did you get slammed by the snow last coupla days? We ended up with 16 inches.

+oM

'Pelt's Blue' was being listed by Kordes nursery in Germany by the 1980s. 'Van Pelt's Blue' is considered a synonym. Plants circulated in North America under the name may be the similar 'Columnaris'.

I'll roll with that bboy.

Only 6" here +om. 30 miles north of me 9" another 40 past that 16". I was snowed in though. The visibility for two nights was none so the trucks weren't out. Add sleet to the mix and the snow was and is sorta solid. My road past my driveway is all messed up yet.

Later,

Dax

Later I noticed the caption for it in the van Gelderen/van Hoey Smith conifer picture book set - which calls it 'Pelt's Blue' - says it

"Originated at Van Pelt's Nurseries, Belgium, about 1980"

I grew 'Van Pelt's Blue' for several years but lost it a few years ago during an unusual wet summer.

Frank