The time of ordering would have been spring (this was back in Minnesota); the roses arrived with leaves and seemed to have been growing in Forestfarm tubes for a while because they weren't merely transplanted plugs. I knew right away that I hadn't received the right plants, but didn't bother to argue because of the prior Rosa maximowicziana/Rosa luciae mix-up and failed attempt to convince them of their error. I would think that R. ecae could be difficult to tell from other related roses like R. primula or R. xanthina, but getting them confused with R. eglanteria is perplexing (the R. pomifera came when I ordered R. virginiana). If you did really get R. ecae, then there is both hope of getting correct roses anytime you order from them, but you should be cautioned that the problem may be random. You might order the same plant twice and get a different result each time. Since the nursery that confused R. davidii with R. virginiana wasn't Forestfarm, I don't want to say one way or another what your results might be if you order it. It'll be pretty straightforward to tell what you've been sent after the fact. Since you mentioned it, R. virginiana should do well for you there and is a healthy, beautiful plant, but it does sucker madly. I don't think there's necessarily reason to think any of these species couldn't be true; seeds of roses can be ordered safely from overseas, where species like R. macrophylla and R. davidii are established in horticulture.

Jackie_o, thanks for posting your thoughts. I've missed your posting and pics of your garden. I remember pictures of your garden overlooking that lake of yours. I know that past problems with exactly this kind of thing are why you and some other people I really like stopped posting. I hate that you all have left. I hate that your feelings were hurt. I hate that we can't read each other's minds and always understand what to say so as not to offend. The point of this thread is to talk about how we treat each other. It is inevitable that we disagree. That's part of the fun of this whole place. But when we have an opposing viewpoint I think we need to be kind in how we phrase it. We also need to try to understand the other guy and why he responded how he did. My take is that Kim is a guy, has had a terrifying experience with coyotes, and is opinionated. That is how he's made. whatever he believes, he's passionate about. And I agree with Jackie above - I think Lyn and Kim's response was somewhat over the top in how they responded to what Ingrid actually said and posted. But I have read a lot of what Kim's written, not only here but on hmf and other places. I know he's passionate, opinionated and somewhat brusque. That's what he is. So what? I ignore it and try to figure out what he's really saying. Nothing I have ever read of lyn's has ever been anything but kind and courteous. For her to respond the way she did must indicate some kind of horrible experience. I didn't really understand why she posted exactly what she did, but based on what else I've seen of her, I thought there must be something I didn't know. I've never met Kim but I put him in the same category as other men I have met, kinda like Sammy shared about her husband. I liked ingrid's posting, but didn't say anything because I don't exactly like interacting with wildlife. But I don't think she and her gallant husband did anything out of the ordinary or wrong. A lot of us would try to rescue a baby squirrel, probably. So what? Is it wise? I don't know. One baby squirrel doesn't amount to much. A snack for my bear. I decided that it's Kim and Lyn's experiences of the dangers of what can happen that caused the over the top nature of their responses. Kind of like someone yelling "stop" if they think you're too close to the edge of a precipice. I've done exactly the same thing. A friend told me she wanted to keep chickens in her yard. all I could think of is the times when I was raising chickens that I came home to dead chickens because of wandering coyotes and dogs. I was really over the top in my response and had to apologize later for being so negative. It is true that some people are intentionally rude. I don't think that this is the case here. I do not think that either Kim or Lyn intentionally were trying to insult or flame Ingrid. I think that both of them have had some pretty extreme experiences with wild life and are passionate about their opinions. For Ingrid's part, I wish she hadn't taken offense, because I don't think any was intended. But as Ingrid has said, and Seil said above, Ingrid's response was more emotional than she wanted it to be, and she's upset right now, anyway. I do know that when I offend someone, even if I did not intend to, I apologize. It costs nothing other my pride, and I have screwed up enough in my life to realize that I am not perfect, that I do hurt others, even when I don't intend to. Life's too short to waste it on trivialities like my pride. I hope that helps, Jackie_O. As I said earlier, I hate that you and others don't post, and I am glad you posted now. Relationships anywhere are some of the toughest things to deal with in life. I've lost friendships over reasons that I can't even begin to understand why. I hate that too. Gean -------- hi, Zyp, lol - the description of the bear came from my neighbor. She said the bear climbed her fence to get to her bird feeders in her back yard. She was terrified and said it was "as big as a car." So I guess that's hearsay, huh? there is a salmon run down behind our home and tons of those blackberries, which is why the bear frequents this area. That and bird feeders and probably garbage. And rodents galore. Good eatin' around here. I keep telling my cat he's a snack for some wandering wildlife and to be happy inside, but he's a stubborn cuss and insists on sneaking out when given half a chance.

Day 33 Wall tile went up yesterday....and my beautiful blue paint...does not work with it. The blue wall looks like an orphan, unwanted and unrelated to anything. As my mother would have said "damn blast and thunderation". The blue in the accent tile is quite dark, and I don't think I want to have a dark navy bathroom. Sigh. Back to the sludge palette. So off to my local Home Hardware to the resident paint guru. Of course when I got there I only had a sample of the wall tile, so home I trudged again to get the wall and accent tiles, and back into town. Mme guru short listed 3 tones for me as that is the range of choice I can cope with. " How much to you need" " Undoubtedly one quart plus a tablespoon so I had better get a gallon". Handyman Dave (HD) was hard at work when I got back, so I didn't have a chance to paint before the floor started to go in. Good thing last night I had painted sealer on the travertine squares in the accent tile with an iddy biddy 10 hair brush, as the floor is down now so I can't do anything this evening. My the floor is a rich colour. Things are starting to pull together, and even without my blue I think I am really going to like it. The piles of tiles is diminished, although the piles of garbage and detritus are not. I can now manoeuver through the upstairs hallway, and only have to clamber over the piles of tile bits and cardboard boxes piled by the door. Tomorrow is grout time. The end is near, the end is near. and I can always stick in a few accessories to highlight the blue.

>The buying power of the average Japanese, Chinese, Indian, German and American are more even now than in 1950That's because the average Asian used to have next to nothing and the lot of most western citizens has fallen markedly in recent years - although I am not sure it is as bad in Germany etc. as it is here. Just now when I Binged GardenWeb no plant forums at all came up in the links offered by the site within the body of the search hit. The main thing that is causing contraction and killing off of nurseries is lack of sales. The small amount of land being left around buildings on new construction sites will have a lot to do with this. Otherwise, many commercial and residential properties in my area are being maintained by mow, blow and go operators that top and shear, never fertilize or do anything else that assists plant health and beauty - except maybe operating and maintaining irrigation systems. Replacement of failed trees or shrubs in such settings often does not occur, once the initial installation phase has passed. This means that in numerous cases there is money to be put into outdoor spaces but no interest in gardening them, in the usual sense. Awhile back a majority of residential properties in Seattle were rentals, likely there has been no change in this - if anything probably more people there are renting due to an inability to buy a house. Here and there you see a hobby garden or an apparently professionally designed one, otherwise very little true gardening is going on from one place to the next - brown lawns are the typical state during summers here. For years I have wondered where all the plants sold by local garden centers were going, the general landscape apparently having a boundless ability to swallow them up, without a trace.