I wish I could offer something specific to those, but I haven't ordered them before. I never figured out if they ever actually had the species I wanted, but I ended up with plants like Rosa eglanteria and R. wichurana, and what I believe is R. pomifera instead of R. ecae, R. maximowicziana, and R. virginiana, respectively. Meanwhile, the R. x dupontii I received from them was correct, but I haven't bothered to order roses from them since. Three out of four is pretty bad, and their lack of identification skills seem to be the root issue (I do still order other things from them, but with perspective - I'm perfectly content with many of their plants but it's always a game of roulette).

I've seen R. virginiana mislabeled as R. davidii from another left coast nursery, but I don't know if that's indicative of a widespread regional ID problem or not.

What time of year did you order? I would be really upset to pay shipping on a Sweet Brier that's naturalized all over the county. As hard as it is recognizing species when they're dormant if you're not very familiar with them, Rosa ecae and and Rosa eglanteria shouldn't be confuse-able on general principle. I think I got the real Rosa ecae, judging by the prickles and habit. It surely isn't Pomifera. I keep missing the bloom by being out of town.

I suspected Rosa davidii was too good to be true. Rosa macrophylla isn't even sold on this continent, so I'm not going to hold my breath for that as a substitute. I don't think I'd be happy with R. virginiana in this climate. Thanks for the heads up.

The time of ordering would have been spring (this was back in Minnesota); the roses arrived with leaves and seemed to have been growing in Forestfarm tubes for a while because they weren't merely transplanted plugs. I knew right away that I hadn't received the right plants, but didn't bother to argue because of the prior Rosa maximowicziana/Rosa luciae mix-up and failed attempt to convince them of their error.

I would think that R. ecae could be difficult to tell from other related roses like R. primula or R. xanthina, but getting them confused with R. eglanteria is perplexing (the R. pomifera came when I ordered R. virginiana). If you did really get R. ecae, then there is both hope of getting correct roses anytime you order from them, but you should be cautioned that the problem may be random. You might order the same plant twice and get a different result each time.

Since the nursery that confused R. davidii with R. virginiana wasn't Forestfarm, I don't want to say one way or another what your results might be if you order it. It'll be pretty straightforward to tell what you've been sent after the fact. Since you mentioned it, R. virginiana should do well for you there and is a healthy, beautiful plant, but it does sucker madly.

I don't think there's necessarily reason to think any of these species couldn't be true; seeds of roses can be ordered safely from overseas, where species like R. macrophylla and R. davidii are established in horticulture.

The yellow of R. ecae is supposed to be intense... but I'm sure that once these hard-scrabble species are in cultivation, there's no telling how different they look. Time will tell. In the meantime, I'll put more references up and try to find the image from Botanical Magazine.

No, you're absolutely right - in bloom I would think you could tell pretty easily if it was that species (well, 'Golden Chersonese' and 'Helen Knight' might come pretty close in color, too - not that 'Helen Knight' is available in this country); I just meant that they'd be hard to tell apart as young seedlings from Forestfarm's point of view. I think I had read that Rosa ecae is smaller and less vigorous than the other roses related to it, but that information could be too outdated and/or foreign in origin to be worth anything.

And buy the others. They have to be something. :)

Forestfarm doesn't list R. ecae on the availability list any more, so maybe my rose really is R. xanthina (and maybe Ecae really is Xanthina anyway). I wasn't aware they raise seedlings?!? That would be a bonus.

Like other retailers they depend on their suppliers to send them the true item. The industry-wide mislabeling rate has been said to be about 33%. Much of forestfarm's seed-raised stock is still small and young when sold, rose seedlings tend to resemble one another until farther along and individual species characteristics become more developed. Apart from that, they are assembling, housing and shipping an inventory consisting of thousands of kinds of plants every year. Last time I was there I was asked to comment on the identification of some plants that were being wondered about. As can be seen from the catalogs they have their own rather well-stocked horticultural library in their offices. If informed of labeling concerns they should be able to do their own checking despite being located out in the middle of nowhere (there is also the internet), except where a specific monograph or paper that they don't have access to is needed to get the last word.

Sorry, bboy, but you obviously haven't encountered their errors from the same angle that I have; trying to argue some of their identification problems as a customer is a trying experience, and not always successful in spite of having a clear case. Perhaps you can wander their aisles and help them with their roses next time?

And again, in case I wasn't clear enough before, I honestly believe they're an excellent nursery and I will probably continue to order from them for a long time. However, I do so knowing that I may not always get what I ordered, and more importantly, that I may very well have to work overtime to convince them if I dare to call their attention to the problem. That's all I'm suggest others do, nothing more. I should have pursued the matter of R. maximowicziana more thoroughly, as their sources had clearly misled them to believe their stock was correct. I also should have complained about the other roses I received instead of what I had ordered, and I take responsibility for that.

In defense of Forest Farm, I've had very satisfying results ordering species roses from this nursery with the one exception of R. davidii. I am particularly appreciative that this nursery offers some of the hard to obtain species.