will starter fertilizer discolor spruces?

14 years ago

I recently had my yard re-composted and seeded- the contractor put sown starter fertilizer also for the grass. last night as I was watering I noticed on several blue spruce that some of the branches had yellowed or become a much lighter green- each tree has been in the ground for roughly 2-3 years and are approximately 8ft tall. this discolor concerns me- not sure if i was the fertilizer- but it I did not notice it a few weeks back- could it be from the fertilizer-hopefully its not something worse like some needle disease, any suggestions appreciated.

thetman

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (7)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
interior browning????

fertilizer put down for seed starting in the lawn.. is usually very low power ... though a more precise understanding of what was applied would help ...

and what do you mean .. the lawn was composted???

were any weed killers applied prior to the lawn renovation ????

any chance at a picture.???? as there is one disease that can cause pungens problems.. though usually on older trees...

and finally .. any drought this summer???

ken
thetman
Original Author
14 years ago
not so much interior browning- more like light green to yellowish color- some branches are tips to the interior.

a top layer of compost-loom was overlayed on the existing law for the new seed s to germinate

no weed killers used

no drought- in fact the opposite here this summer- pretty solid rain all the way until almost half way through july. Then it got very hot and humid (not sure this contributed or not).

I had a newer planted blue spruce die last year which also gradually turned all yellowish until I dug it up- it too was a 7-8footer that was roughly 2 years old. I really hope its not happening all over again. just wondering if it was a coincidence that I am noticing after a few weeks of the lawn renovation.

thetman
Related Discussions
Pics From My First Garden + What I Learned
Q
Comments (6)
Congrats on your first garden. As they years pass, the better you'll get...the more failures you'll discover...and the more successes you'll master. You're paying attention to not only what's growing well and what isn't...you're paying attention to how plants compete with each other in your environment. "I planted peppers in the ground and they all went crunchy. So I took them to the greenhouse and they gave me new ones." ...and it sounds like you've found one hell of a friendly supplier there. Good on them. Good luck with the rest of this season and next season, too.
...See More
Green Blue Spruce needles a nitrogen source?
Q
Comments (9)
After reading through all these messages I don't see that the OP ever got an answer to the question. I can't help you with information about nitrogen in pine needles, but I thought I would try to reengage the readers toward the original question. Still I have other thoughts on what you asked and what has been said. If you are getting temps anywhere above the outside air temperature, your pile has at least some "greens." At 145 degrees F your pile had plenty of greens. All the USDA requires to kill the pathogens is 120 if I'm not mistaken. Regarding green and brown leaves: the color of the leaves has nothing to do with whether they are "green" or "brown." Materials that are considered "green" are those with a relatively high amount of protein. Protein is made from amino acids which carry nitrogen in them. Thus high protein (but dry and brown) wheat and coffee grounds are much more "green" than most green tree leaves. Most grass plants carry their protein in the grass blades until the grass goes to seed. Then the protein is stored in the seed. On the other hand, "brown" plants simply are those that have minimal protein in them. Their physiology is dominated by carbohydrates (sugar and cellulose). Any material which is a seed, nut, bean, or is otherwise considered to be high in protein is a green. Most animal dung is considered to be green because it has plenty of protein left in it. Much of that protein is from the bacteria inhabiting it. Soil microbes do not eat (or decompose) nitrogen and carbon. They decompose protein and carbohydrates. This is very important to understand if you are trying to manage your pile. As soon as you drift away from the biology of the compost and try to make it a chemical process, it is very easy to become disoriented regarding how all this works. biological approach ==> protein and carbohydrates chemical approach ==> nitrogen and carbon Kimmsr said early in this thread that nitrogen was one of the more volatile nutrients in compost. This is because when you have too much protein, the protein decomposition process can result in ammonium materials. When they get wet the become ammonia which you can smell either as recognizable ammonia or as the sour or worse smells of rotting meat. In that sense, nitrogen is volatile, but you can control that off gassing by covering the pile with plenty of low protein materials like leaves (but not grass). These materials seem to absorb the odors and hold them in the pile. Note also that the chemical fertilizer suggested by spiced_ham above does not contain protein and thus is not a direct food for the compost microbes. It is usually a salt and probably responsible for more microbe deaths than for benefit. Spiced_ham went on to say, "You will end up with more finished compost in the long run because the pile will not have to respire off as much carbon to get to the final 10-15:1 C:N ratio of stable humus the way it would if you were adding high nitrogen vegetable matter." I think I would disagree with that but I don't really understand it. Compost piles do not normally respire carbon. Microbes digest it along with protein, vitamins, and minerals. If the pile is not managed you might get a "methane" smell which indicates gassing off of carbohydrates, but that would be abnormal rather than normal as he indicates. The lack of any gassy smells indicates you are not losing carbohydrates. If you are trying to tune up your pile and you have too much carbohydrate, the solution is to add protein, not salty chemicals. Personally I'm not that concerned with the ratios of materials in my pile. It starts with 20 or 30 bags of other peoples' tree leaves tossed on the open ground. Then we start burying banana peels, pumpkins, and kitchen scraps. It might be ready next year or not. It certainly never heats up with the minimal amounts of protein it gets, but it always decomposes.
...See More
Spruces--soil Ph and fertilizers
Q
Comments (7)
you said: this is the time of year when I start to make a list of what amendments and fertilizer items I need to acquire. ========>>>> the above peeps said ... you really need nothing ... UNLESS you see some impact ... most likely yellowing .... and i will stand corrected if i am wrong .... i will add also ... that ... [and congrats on actually being the first one to have had a soil analysis done in advance or posting] .... that 'most' trees/conifers/shrubs... NEVER need any fertilizer or amendments ... my collection of over 500 conifers ... in pure sand.. within the pH limits you note.. ALL grow to annual growth rate specs .. with NO FERTILIZER EVER ... they are trees.. they are not children.. they do NOT need to be feed ... so it would be my summation regarding the money you want to spend on such.. be spent in other areas in your garden ... i will also add.. that you must take into consideration the downhill flow of the water.. and how or what you put onto or into the soil .. that MIGHT become runoff ... that would be pollution ... whatever you do .. CAUSE NO HARM .... good luck ken ps: do NOT trust the snakeoil salesman.. who will take every penny you have.. 'fixing' a problem.. that isnt a problem ... he will gladly sell you all the stuff ... whether you need it or not ... that is how boat payments are made ...
...See More
Recommendations for VA TF Lawn (Soil Test & Picts. attached)
Q
Comments (18)
You're still low in phosphorus. Your copper numbers this year are way high. Did you use anything copper to take your samples? The copper numbers were normal last year. Avoid lime. The CEC numbers this year are both low, whereas last year two were low and one was good. So maybe the 11 number last year was a fluke? A low CEC means your soil does not hold nutrients well. They tend to leach away. One way to cope with the problem is to do lighter applications more often. Another way is to use organic feedings so that more nutrients are held by the soil organisms instead of the soil itself. Milorganite is an organic fertilizer that has a relatively high P number. I would suggest 20 lb/k now and again in early October. Then in late fall, after the grass has stopped growing and before the ground freezes, use a fast release nitrogen fertilizer (like urea). Are you sure you used a fine fescue seed from Southern States? That seems strange. I've only seen tttf there. Fine fescue would not do well in our heat. A neighbor has fine fescue and it goes dormant in April and doesn't green up until October. What seed are you using this year?
...See More
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
i doubt the lawn has anything to do with it.. coincidence..

hit the link.. read up.. take the latin name back to google.. and then flip over to the IMAGES side to look for more pix.. see if it seems the same ...

it is often said.. that smaller conifers.. trees... transplant easier.. recover or get re-established faster.. and in a given 5 years.. can outgrow transplanted large specimens ...

on a 6 to 8 foot transplant... most likely 90 % of the root mass was removed... and this plant is having a hard time getting re-established ... but short of digging it up.. there is no way to tell what is going on down under ...

that and then whatever the guy who dug it out of the nursery did to it... it surely wasnt potted all its life ....

a pic would sure help

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link
Embothrium
14 years ago
Watering at night encourages fungus diseases, water in the morning instead. You do not want most garden plants to sit for many hours with wet foliage if you can avoid it. Colorado spruce is from a Rocky Mountain climate where there are long dry periods in summer.
thetman
Original Author
14 years ago
thanks for the responses, I know that larger trees transplant harder- bu this summer these trees looked great- lots of healthy budding, here is the closet thing right now that resembles some of the branches:
http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/2007/4-4/yellowspruce.html

also found this quote:
Yellow or yellow-orange color in the fall on evergreens should not be confused with winter injury. These fall colors signal the beginning of natural needle loss. Older needles near the interior of the tree are being shed. These needles are loosely attached and fall very easily when touched. In contrast, needles affected by winter injury are still firmly attached to their twigs.

An overall grayish, yellowish green or white appearance of evergreens in the summer may indicate the presence of spider mites. Their feeding damage to individual needles appears initially as white or yellow specks that may fuse to form blotches or cover the entire needle. Heavy mite feeding causes the needles to drop prematurely. In addition, spider mites produce fine, silken webbing between the needles; this webbing collects dust, pollen, dead needles and other debris. Generally, the interior portion of a branch and the lower branches are most prone to spider mite feeding and webbing.

full article:http://www.extension.iastate.edu/newsrel/2001/may01/may0109.html

maybe spider mites? interesting articles.
thetman
wisconsitom
14 years ago
tman, get a clean white sheet of paper, hold under a spruce branch and shake/tap the branch. See if you get mites on the paper.

+oM
thetman
Original Author
14 years ago
yes I can do that with the paper-hopefully I won't see anything-and if I don't , well then it seems to be another problem I guess. I was reading about Chlorosis of Trees -some of it makes sense, the look of my previous spruce resembled the symptoms, but diagnosing why it happens is not easy ( less water, too much water, bad soil, no iron in soil etc) hell, could be anything! (except the water part, I am pretty good about that). I do know that these early symptoms seem to resemble what happened to my other blue spruce- or should I say yellow spruce. seems I don't have much luck with growing any blue spruce in my yard- the bakeri and fat alberts seem fine though- go figure.thanks again
thetman

will starter fertilizer discolor spruces?

Comments (7)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

thetman
Original Author

Related Discussions

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

Embothrium

thetman
Original Author

wisconsitom

thetman
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

will starter fertilizer discolor spruces?

Comments (7)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

thetmanOriginal Author

Related Discussions

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

Embothrium

thetmanOriginal Author

wisconsitom

thetmanOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

thetman
Original Author

thetman
Original Author

thetman
Original Author