Thank you MayBee (and everyone else) Actually, I could use some landscaping advice Here is a picture a bit further back, which gives a better sense of the small little space I have. The garden "strip" (for lack of a better term) wraps around the side of my end-unit townhome. Most of this is in the shade (faces north), but the front edge is a small raised bed which gets sun all afternoon. Originally, it had three ugly old azealeas (sorry azealea lovers, I find them to be very boring bushes!!). So I was just going to replace them with three roses (Iceberg is what I was originally thinking). Well, that was 4 years ago...Let's just say I have "grown" as a garderner I wound up extending the raised bed a bit, it was about 10 feet long by 4 feet wide, now it is 15 feet long. But I cannot extend it any further. I have a lovely maple at the end of that bed, and I am already planting a bit too close to that tree as it is. Across the sidewalk from the raised bed is a small "island", which is community property...it has the fire hydrant and the light post. Because of Jude's popularity, I got the blessing of my neighbors to pull the ugly juniper ground cover and put in roses. I have 3 Lavagluts in there (one on lifesupport, after some bad transplant shock), and now have added 3 Souvenir de la Malmaison. I have ringed all 6 of the roses with dwarf lavendar, which should fill in nicely as the summer progresses. The full list of roses is as follows (16 in all): Jude the Obscure: In the corner closest to the steps. He is my first rose purchase, and first love - now 4 years old. It just keeps getting better Molineux (3 of them) They sit next to Jude. I planted them last year, they didn't do much last year, but this year I have gotten a good spring flush and they are starting to grow a bit. They have a nice tea fragrance Jardins de Bagatelle (2 of them, view obscured by red Lavaglut roses growing in the island): These are new this year. Not much yet, but pretty blooms on the baby plants with a nice fragrance. I wanted 3, to replace 3 Ducher (China) roses, which were perfectly fine rose bushes (bullet proof), but didn't really put out nice flowers for cutting. I have a small garden, I decided I wanted more cutting roses. I could only get 2 JdB this year (Roses Unlimited), so I am holding a spot for one more of these guys for next, assuming they perform well Crimson Bouquet (1, behind Molineux). It's 3 years old now. No fragrance, but lovely bloom, long lasting, great for cutting, and it repeats really well over the summer. Maggie (1, next to Crimson Bouquet on the pillar trellis). This is brand new (Antique Rose Emporium), just a baby, and not really visible. It replaced a hybrid tea (Beloved) that was constantly getting blackspot. I have high hopes for this one...already putting out new growth. Pickerings 4 Seasons Rose - in a pot, not in the picture (further up the steps). Doing ok, but not as nice a rose as Rose du Roi. Blooms are pretty, not a heavy bloomer, but it is still young. A very lanky plant though!! Rose du Roi (1, in a pot, next to Jude). I acquired as a happy accident last year, an apology gift from Rogue Valley Roses for sending me the wrong rose. I didn't have space, so he went in a pot. This rose is really growing on me. It produced a great, very fragrant flush last fall. That damask scent was just WONDERFUL!!!! This spring's flush has been very nice, and he is starting to fill in a bit. I may try and squeeze him in at the end of the garden later this summer, just past the space for Jardin des Bagatelles, roughly where the little white sign sits (I would have to fill in some dirt) I don't want to run a big "pot ghetto" Souvenir de la Malmaison (3 of these on the "island" next to the light pole, on the right) - What more can I say. They are brand new, and I am already very impressed. Patrick & Lori who live in my area, love this rose. I find the fragrance subtle, soft, not a strong as Jude or Rose du Roi, but nice. The flower form cannot be beat. They seem very happy in their new bed! Lavaglut (2 1/2, on the left side of the lightpole): They are only 1 year old, but are already 3 1/2 feet tall. They bloom non-stop all summer, and stand up INCREDIBLY well to the heat (and we have HOT, humid summers!!!). Blooms are long lasting (great cut flowers, but no fragrance), and a pretty deep red. Disease free foliage. I wrote off one of these (now a 1/2 rose, sitting, partially obscured by the fire hydrant) that I had transplanted (to make room for SDLM). But I looked last night, and it is showing signs of life (2 live canes, and a bunch of dead ones). I will look again at him tonight, and trim the dead canes. Should I keep him or pull him? If I pull him, I could conceivably buy & plant 2 more SDLM (on either side of the fire hydrant) and have 5 of those ringing the 2 remaining Lavagluts (and all framed by the new lavendar plants I put in). Or.... I could try and put in 2 of the SDLM sport, Capitaine Dyel de Graville (if I can find it!), to get a somewhat darker shade of pink. Oh the choices one has to make with a small garden!! I appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts (since I am still very much a novice!!) Basil

Taoseeker- I am thinking about trying a Yolande d'Aragon hybrid perpetual. Other people in the area have had good success with this rose, even with the cold winters. I'd love to try a Jacques Cartier, but I want to check at Northland Rosarium to see if it's recommended for our zone. Mariannese- Wow! You have 36 Gallicas? Do you have any pics of your garden? I'd love to see them. I would like to try a Charles de Mills, which is supposed to be pretty cold hardy and maybe a Tuscany and Apothecary rose. Isabelle- I showed my husband the picture of your grape arbor and table and chairs. I have wanted to do something similar in our back yard, maybe with my antique bricks underneath. He likes the bricks, but didn't really know what I wanted. After seeing your picture, he thinks it would be a great idea! Yea! and thanks :)

Oops, forgot to add, my mom's in zone 5. We're also thinking of maybe an obelisk or two, for climbing roses. She still wants lots of flowers, mixed in with the herbs and vegetables. She has a dwarf apple tree in this garden, and a few dwarf pears at the other end. On the west side of the house, the late bearing soft fruits(strawberries, grapes, autumn raspberries) are being moved out of the garden and replaced with June bearing strawberries and June/July raspberries. The blueberries should be no problem. The grapes are probably going to a back fence, along the sewer easement, where she won't have to walk past them on a daily basis. When we take out the grapes, we may put in some more climbing roses (she just planted the grapes early last year, to cover up the sides of her deck).

Thanks for the info - I do go to far north forum alot - that is where I got hooked on the "wretched" roses - from the gallery. I was just going to put 1 rose in a perennial bed and then I kept needed more and more with very little space. So... 4 roses later [we will see if they survived] here I am trying to figure out how I can fit in more than just the roses. Annuals may well be my best bet until I can determine what space the roses take up. I do want to include a University of Saskatchewan Lily - for the U of S 100 year anniversary so maybe that will be my only long term addition this year. I will keep reading from all of these wonderful forums and enjoy the pictures that get posted Fern