Lavender Lass, I've done a little research since you started asking about once blooming OGRs in your zone 4 climate. There used to be a very good Rose Nursery in Grand Forks, B. C. which is probably 4 hours north of your area. I've got one of their catalogues from 1998 and have had a look at the OGRs they sold and the temperatures they state they can take without winter kill. I've also provided a link to another Canadian nursery, Corn Hill Nursery in New Brunswick, Canada. The roses they sell are hardy to at least -30C ( -28F ). My old catalogue from "Hardy Roses for the North" list Alba roses as being the hardiest, good to zone 3. So any Albas that strike your fancy will probably work for you. Gallicas are zone 4 with the exception of Alain Blanchard and Alika, whiich are both listed as zone 3. Two repeat blooming Pimpenellafollias that are good to at leat zone 3 are Karl Forster and Stanwell Perpetual. Centifollias are listed as zone 4. Damasks as zone 4, if your temperatures don't go much below -30C you might want to try Ispahan which has a long blooming season. The repeat blooming OGR's; Portland Damasks, Bourbons, HPs, Mosses, will all get cut back hard and/or need winter protection in zone 4. If you want some hardy Austins, then I recommend the following: St. Cecelia, probably the hardiest Austin, winter hardy here in zone 4; Saint Swithun, Charles Rennie MacIntosh; Mary Rose, Redoute, Winchester Cathedral, Crocus Rose, The Mayflower. All quite hardy, healthy, and with good rebloom. Plant them deep, bud union 4 or more inches below soil level. The ones mentioned, other than St. Cecelia and probably the Mayflower, will die to the ground or snow line, but come back very well and give you lots of bloom. I personally cut mine back to 18 inches in winter and cover with straw and they grow and bloom very well for me. I've also heard good things about a moss rose called William Lobb, a rose that several forum members in Minnesota grow and say does well there. There you go, at least some cold climate OGR data to get you started. Good luck with your project, hope it goes well. PS: I cover lavender with straw, just like my roses and manage to get it to grow here. Cheers, Rideau Rose Lad Here is a link that might be useful: Cornhillnursery

The confusion between the two gardening styles are more like practical vs esthetic, but borrowing on one another. The French and English had ties through the monarchies and borrowed from one anothers cultures and customs, including gardening and animal husbandry. Modern-day "organic gardening" and "intensive gardening" have their origins in old French gardening practices using companion planting of flowers and herbs with veggies and fruits, composting and keeping small barnyard animals, as well as many other simple and practical gardening-homesteading methods. The Potager Garden was a designated plot; a special garden wherein was grown veggies & herbs for 'potage' (meaning, any plant you can eat), with flowers that were good companion plants for insect control or to improve the growth and production of the vegetables and herbs, and for attracting bees to pollinate. Many of the flowers were to be eaten, as well, i.e. Calendulas (Pot Marigolds), Nasturtiums, chives, chamomile, peas, and others, even roses. Orchards were often planted nearby for convenience as well as beauty and pollination, as both attract bees. Potager Gardens could be quite formal (for the wealthy), or not (for the more humble classes). Paths could be paved and plots geometrically layed out and fenced with shrubberies or permanent structures (lovely, formal French manor-style gardens), or as in the provential kitchen "yardens" or small acreages, potage gardens more often had paths of dirt that merely wound casually through informal, asymmetrical plots of this and that. They were more often found right out the kitchen door of the humble French home for easy access and for safety and security. - I much prefer the Provincial Potage garden, myself. I like the free, casual, no-fuss garden that says, "home" to me. Potager gardens were designed to be more practical, but not to ever be at the expense of 'esthetic appeal'. Even the practical could be beautiful. Beautiful and fragrant gardens promoted good mental health. It was a chance for some fresh air and sunshine out of dreary, dark, often ill-lit and sometimes dank house. If your mind was happy & well, your body often was too. Cottage Gardens on the other hand, rambled around the home in a profusion of flowers, namely roses, foxgloves, delphiniums and the like that was available and would grow in that particular climate. Only the wealthy had greenhouses and grew rare and exotic plants - grand glass houses called conservatories, and formal garden estates with towering statuaries, fountains and evergreens. Cottage Gardens were designed to utilize a limited space around the home, often the front yard. They were neither formal nor geometrical in design. They seldom utilized perfect symmetry in lay-outs. Dirt or gravel paths that would lead you from one garden area to another, often totally obscured from the view by hedgerows of privet, evergreen, ivy clad rock walls or fences with tall flowers, like hollyhocks, foxgloves, or rambling, climbing roses. Arches and trellising extended the gardens farther into the air, so more could be planted on less ground and they could completely block out their neighbors for more privacy. Within a Cottage garden you could find a Potager garden, but they were very different in form and purpose. It's like comparing a squash flower to a Brugmansia flower! Ya, they are both pretty flowers, but...uh..... That's what I understand the basic components are that make up the two very different gardens. That's how I see it, anyhow! ~SweetAnnie4u

Oh, many possibilities for fun in the garden just by using your imagination & giving time to children. These are some things I've done with my kids & my great-niece & nephew. -Play hide & seek using a variety of animal figures easily carried about by children at a price you can afford to have them chipped. Even kids' meal toys work as minis. Leave them out spring-fall until needing to put away during frosty winter weather. -Allow some of the mini plastic toys to bathe in the birdbaths. Children can't resist playing in the water. -Play I spy describing what you see in the garden. -Clear paths for them to know where to walk. Encourage them to patrol the garden looking for ... a butterfly, a bird, a pink flower, a ripe tomato or strawberry, etc. without you right behind them. Then they come back to you where you're in the garden to get you to come see. That way you get garden work done & they burn off a bit of energy in the double backing to you. Helps you be less frustrated with having a child in the garden with you when there's work to be done. (Can also have them prepare the table for snack or lunch, pick flowers, set table, pick garnishes, etc. If you've taught them which flowers are edible, they will enjoy snipping those, too. Be sure to communicate which & how much are okay for cutting that day, so you're not devastated by a crew cut kid job. -Give a hint of something that you know is already in there, so it's easier for them to find. -Kid size garden tools & gloves. -Kid size chair or oversized chair so you can sit together on the same one. -Have chairs easy to move to shade if a hot day or have chairs in both locations sun & shade. -Bubbles - as a surprise you pull out of your basket or bag as a regular part of gardening together. There are spill proof bubbles as well, which are ideal for younger kids. -Let them paint structures with water & clean paintbrushes on a dry day. Craft sponge brushes or the cheap dollar store brushes work just fine and if they get too dirty to clean up you can toss them. The water makes it look darker & it dries soon enough not leaving a trace of their "painting". If you have some mild cleaner & a scrub brush nearby they might even clean the furniture for you at the same time. Be prepared to get a bit wet. -On hot days make fruit juice popsicles the night before or early in morning to take out during a break. -Take a beverage & snack out with you in a small cooler. -Planned breaks from working to sit, snack, or play games. -Have a back pack filled with teddy bear picnic items: book, mini tea set, tablecloth & napkins, & of course the bear. -Have a basket & kid craft scissor just for them to harvest herbs, salad greens, peas, or other easy to harvest things that they can also carry in the basket to the hose to wash. Then include their things in the meal preparation for the family later. Ask them for "their oregano" for the spaghetti, which they'll proudly offer. Compliment them on the aroma & be sure to compliment them when serving the family meal. Let them use herbs as garnish or help them make tea for everyone & serve it. -Plan ahead a bit for the gardening time to include work & play as kids won't want to work as long as you or stay on task nearly as well. Sometimes, by asking them what they'd like to do you might be surprised that turning compost with the large pitchfork is their desire, not playing checkers in the shade. Be prepared to finish what they start & can't. -Seems like anything mini is a delight to school age kids. Give them a mystery to solve or a job to do & they're on their way. Younger preschool children need a lot more direct supervision & assistance, but can still learn to enjoy the garden space if you have something just for them. They especially want to copy their older siblings. Small cups with a 1 qt or less bucket can keep them busy scooping & pouring as long as you refill the water a few times. Don't expect them to actually water anything. -Oh, & let them have an area of the garden to do what they wish. They may or may not want to grow what you intended for that space. They may just want to have the dirt to dig in or bury a rock or something even though that's not what you want to happen. Give them a choice between a few seeds to plant as well as a transplant, so they don't lose patience waiting for sprouting. Help them know where to walk as well because they might step on what was sown. Mulch may help mark the outside of the planting area. Let them decorate popsicle sticks are markers or on paper tags you slip into sealed baggies to bury partway in soil. -Sometimes a container garden placed near the other garden plants is all they need to be satisfied with having their own space. -For perennial vegetables & fruits it's nice to include them in the shopping, planting, labeling, & upkeep over the years especially if you let it be theirs. Use their name along with the plant and compliment them on the crop even if you're doing most of the work to make it successful. Our married daughter now has a strawberry patch at their home from plants she selected at 10 years old along with a bunch of other kitchen garden perennials. During her teen years she had lost interest in gardening, but now that she has her own "bit of earth" is hooked on gardening again drawing on childhood experiences in the garden with me & her grandfather. -They remember the little bits of gardening information you talk about while in the garden & will repeat it back to you or you'll hear them telling someone else about what you did together. They soon become the experts... Also if you use a bit of child-like imagination to call things it makes it more interesting to them. Spreading used coffee grounds is feeding the worms breakfast or smoothies. Looking for ripe tomatoes is hunting for jewels. Looking for zucchini big enough to grill slices for dinner can be hunting for man zucchini or burger zucchini. If you know you have a whopper cucumber or zucchini in there ask them to find the giant hiding in the garden & say you'll keep watch to make sure it's safe to pick... Then go help them because they're scratchy. Things like that help them have fun while working with you. It's good for me to keep in mind not to work my teen son too hard though he is a great laborer especially with structures, compost, hauling organic matter, etc, and enjoys taking photos of plants & insects in the garden, but has no interest in playing in it now. He respects the garden spaces I've taken over for plants and comes to tell me he's damaged something while mowing or playing ball with friends. He is also good with any younger visitors like cousins helping them be careful around my flowering plants or telling them what's okay to pick or not based on what I've told him in the past. Can you tell I'm enthusiastic about kids in the garden? Enjoy the garden with them most of all & pass it on to the next generation. Corrine

Diggity- You're right. I've just been sitting here trying to figure out how many roses I can squeeze in without losing too many vegetable beds :) I'm so glad you've had success with your roses in the potager. I'm thinking of planting them on two sides and leaving two sides for veggies. With the four middle beds, this should give me enough room for some vegetables and a few more annual flowers mixed in with them. I do have vegetable beds in other areas, but I want the potager to be the food I use every day. My nephew has his own area against the west side of the house (probably the best area for tomatoes) and I have the mini-pumpkin and pole bean teepee in the middle of the "pumpkin patch" in the back yard. There's also a bigger vegetable garden planned for next year which will be beyond the potager. I need a big area for corn, potatoes, squash, big root vegetables, broccoli, all those vegetables that are hard to fit into the potager. I'll keep planning this out over the winter, and probably change my mind a few times, but I think the roses are so pretty, they'll be worth a few vegetables, just not too many :)