Thuja Green Giant as a 6' hedge?

13 years ago

We're considering using Tsuja Green Giant, maintained at 6'-7' as a screen around a hot tub. It's an exposed location in full sun with sandy soil. It's an otherwise inhospitable location (with a great view) on a bluff overlooking the water, facing northeast. The site gets nailed every winter by wind and snow. Many otherwise hardy (for this area) plants just won't grow here i.e Delaware Valley White azalea, Catawbiense rhododendrons, etc.

Regarding ongoing maintenance. I want to spend my time IN the hot-tub---not pruning the hedge around it. Something about dwarfing a tree still troubles me.

Our landscape designer/plant person suggested GG as a soft, dense screen between a parking area and the spa. Because of the nor'easter snowstorms I get nailed by (in my exposed location), Green Giant was selected due to it's tendency towards a single leader.

I've been doing a fair ammount of reading and have only grown more uncertain; having flip-flopped several times between different cultivars and different species. So,I spoke with the horticulturalists at two famous nurseries in these parts and got two totally opposite opinions as to the suitability of GG---ugggh!

Any opinions on suitability of GG for this application?

Thanks!

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Comments (19)

plympton_ma
Original Author
13 years ago
Follow on question: are all the Thuja Plicata selections single stemmed---and therefore suited for New England winters or is this unique to Green Giant?

I came across the selection Steeplechase, an allegedly slower growing, finer and more densely foliaged sport of Green Giant. Would this sport be single stemmed as well?

Thanks again for any help.
noki
13 years ago
These two selections seem to usually be single stemmed, unless they have been trimmed otherwise when they are small. I've seen them sold trimmed or with a single central leader.

But, you seem to be saying that you will trim it to 6 feet when it grows bigger. This trimming or topping of the tree will ruin the single stemmed central leader effect... you will be causing the tree to grow how you do not want then.
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no tree stops growing.. because you top it .. it will releader and go skyward .. as scot notes.. it has way to much potential for your project .... and i strongly emphasize his comment about how you maintain anything at 15 feet ... that is 7 feet above a common ladder.. and unless you are nine feet tall.. and standing on teh top of the ladder .... i dont know how that all works out ... get rid of them ... at 15 feet tall... they will be near on 10 feet wide ... do you have that much space at the bottom??? i suspect you got sucked in by the marketing hype.. that they are fast growing ... ken
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I planted 50 leyland's 3 years ago. They were in the 5 gallon buckets, about a foot tall each. Now they are 12 to 14 feet tall. Not one has died, gotten cancer or been toppled. I live in Northwest Georgia. These trees have seen the most extreme weather our area has seen in years. Let me give some unsolicited advice, with all due respect. 1. Whether they are green giant or leyland or arbovitae of any kind: Make sure you know your soil, make sure you know your frost level, and make sure you PLANT AND WATER AND FERTILIZE them appropriately. If you don't have time to manage them, then don't plant them. 2. Plant them far away from structures you don't want them to grow into. i.e: fences, buildings, septic tanks, neighbors who hate their shade etc. 3. plant them double their pot width, ONLY to the top of the pot you bought them with and with 1/2 native soil and the other half conducive to your local weather and environment. Be prepared to tie them off with rope that have maybe some cut pieces of garden hose around the rope to keep them from choking and which will help keep them level in high wind times if you are in a high wind area. 4. Applying water and appropriate nutrients is huge, but easy. GG's and Leyland demand alot of water if on a slope with hard clay or dense soil. Down south if you are in red clay, then water them morning and night for the first month or two. If you are up north or in moist soil, once a week watering with any spronkler system is going to be ok, just dont overwater at night, stick to early mornings. I applied 10/10/10 in a circle about 1 foot out from the tree bole in early spring, and then again early summer, because my red clay is very acidic, hence the 10/10/10. Nice basic nutrients. 5. Don't flip out about the cancer issues that you might tend to google; you are planting a long term resource for shade and beauty and perhaps privacy, so pay attention to your trees....daily. If the branches are browning on the outside but green on the inside, that ok, it's just growth. If you see a ring around the trunk, then do some research, I won't go into detail here. Just watch your trees, and remember, if you are planting in a row or around fences/property, your soil may be very different from one side to the other. The pic below is a recent one of my Leyland's after 3 years. They started out at about a foot. This is in PACKED Georgia red clay with lots of rocks. You may experience some growtg difference, but if they look healthy, they are healthy. I must say: Your initial soil preparation is huge. Plant them well. The GG's and Leyland's have a tap root that if given proper care, will grow deep and delve for nutrients. Out of 50 planted not one has died or had a problem. I am not a tree doctor nor do I play one on TV. I am...a lover of oxygen.
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gardener365
13 years ago
You don't want a full-sized tree such as GG or Steeplechase. These are immense trees that will need pruning a lot and are the opposite of something else you need to be looking for. Having said that, you need something that has the hard-wired genes to stay narrow so you'd only be pruning the tops. Thuja occidentalis Holmstrup is a good choice.
Thuja occidentalis Degroot's Spire is also a good choice but is going to be pricy for that instant, zap.

Dax
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
13 years ago
hey

link below to incorporate my original reply ...

i dont know about that landscapers comments ... ????

all trees tend toward a single leader ... whether or not a grower.. wholesaler or retailer cares is more the issue ...

you find a nursery.. and you tell them you will only accept single leader plants .... IF THEY WANT YOUR MONEY ... if they cant do it ... move on .... you really arent looking for stuff that is all that rare ...

if you want single leader plants.. you go find single leader plants .... and you pay for single leader plants.. they can be found.. but perhaps not at the bigboxstore ...

so.. that issue aside.. you are no longer limited to one variety .... and TRUST ME.. GG is not appropriate at all ... my 6 inchers planted in 2001 are going on 20 feet tall .. by 10 feet across ... how are you going to tame something like that ????

what is your budget.. and how important is instant gratification ... in other words.. do you want the screen there yesterday????

as to the wind issue... the family of plants we are talking about.. should be able to rather easily handle anything you in z6 might call winter... as they have little trouble in my cold 5 .. and without looking them up.. go much colder ... HOWEVER.... some wind protection the first year or two.. until they have a good root mass.. might be worth the effort ....

i too like de groots .... at 8 feet.. about 18 inches wide .... though they wont stop there. .i think my oldest is going on 12 feet .... but a plant.. IMHO.. that would be much easier to beat back .... they seem to grow a foot a year or so ... no snow load issues .... and to save some money ... you could make it a bit more interesting.. by varying the sizes ....

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link
wisconsitom
13 years ago
Plympton, how much width is available for this planting? Reason I ask is that, if there is sufficient lateral room, say, five or six feet, than the old cultivar "woodward" globe arborvitae could fit the bill nicely for many years. This plant is the opposite of single-leader, it being a globe, but in my wintery region, they are rarely if ever damaged by snowload. I have installed "hedges" with these with the recommendation that they NOT be pruned at all, excepting any minor dead branch, etc, that may show up. They will be roughly 6 feet tall after several years and will only very slowly increase in height (And width) after that.

While I hate how this cultivar gets used often, as a single 'bun' all by itself, etc, when used as I cite above, they can be simply excellent low or no-maintenance screens. My folks built a new house about ten years ago and I installed an arching row of 15 of these, I think on 6-foot centers, and the results have been perfect. When seated on their backyard patio, my folks or visitors are completely within the screening height of the arbs, but if one walks to the row, standing up of course, they can still see over the top of the plants.

In time, woodward globe can get up to 8 or 10 feet tall, but this takes decades.

See if you can find a planting like this in your area. I think you may well find it a good option.

+oM
plympton_ma
Original Author
13 years ago
Thanks for all the help. I sincerely value the worth of your collective experience.

I met with the designer yesterday, at his summer cottage (which is nicer than my year-round house), where he has several plants of GG. They were soft and bushy and a pleasing shade of green so they met all of my wife's criteria. Unfortunately, the plants were still under 8'-10'high and unpruned so I was unable to get a feel for how well they responded to becoming a controlled hedge. I mentioned that I was my own gardener and did not look forward to years of hacking at this poor thing. I was assured that pruning twice a year, three at most, was all that would be required for me maintain this hedge at a suitable height. He did go on to describe a three legged ladder for me to use---something that doesn't sound like a lot of fun or even something I should need for a 6' hedge.

As far as space is concerned, they would probably have room for a base of 4'-5' and if I upped the height to 6'8"( the same as my doorways), that seems to me to be a reasonable privacy screen around a hot tub?

I had wondered what the effect of making a flat topped hedge out of the single leader stems would be regarding snow load but assumed that it must be OK, that lateral branches comprise the top?

I only have experience with pruning two types of evergreens. One was a fir tee, which I tried unsuccessfully to keep at a manageable size. The other is a Hicks yew hedge, which I prune twice per year.

I would rather spend the time and money now rather than regretting my decision later.
wisconsitom
13 years ago
I like GGs. I have a few myself, planted in spots where they can develop into their big, rangey selves unfettered by space restrictions. But everything you are trying to do here suggests a non-giant plant selection, no? IOWs, why not go with another arb selection, whether it be my "Woodward Globe" idea or the Holmstrup Dax mentioned?

In the end, it is your choice, but I do believe every one of us has tried to steer you AWAY from GG........for this application.

+oM
plympton_ma
Original Author
13 years ago
I appreciate the steering :-) Unfortunately I'm still stuck trying to find a suitable evergreen hedge. I did a little reading about Holmstrup and saw that it was "often single trunked" but also that"foliage may show some winter burn in exposed sites. Susceptible to damage/stem breakage in winter from ice and snow accumulations"

Is there a smaller or slower growing upright cultivar that will withstand my exposed northeast site as well as winter snows?

I'd happily pay the extra cost (to a point, obviously) up front in return for time not spent pruning later. Whatever cultivar satisfied my needs would then need to be available.

I dread the prospects of putting up a vine covered fence.
plympton_ma
Original Author
13 years ago
Any opinions on Thuja occidentalis 'Hetz Wintergreen'for my application?
gardener365
13 years ago
There's no way on this plantent, where you live, that Holmstrup will winter burn. Some idiot wrote that. Snow loads, nah, that's wrong too. That's a fine cultivar for what you're doing. Perfect for your space requirements - can be brought into practitically any nursery on earth at a 6 foot height, the list just goes on and on.

Degroot's Spire - the same holds true for. Although, now you're looking at paying the bigger bucks.

What I imagine for your purpose is a Holmstrup planted every 24".. Ken's suggestion of 18" for Degroot's seems good there, for that cultivar.

Pruning:
cut em flat across the top and walk away. It's that simple. Anything else and you're creating more work for yourself in the end.

Hetz Wintergreen aka Wintergreen is now encroaching into that plant that after time will require that you maintain the entire plant, meaning, your ladder ain't gonna fit very well into that spot. Then... it just grows too fast. Wrong plant. Don't even consider Woodwardii either. Hell that's 10x the wrong plant. You want height not width.

If it were possible to find larger plants:
Malonyana and/or Malonyana Aurea would be welcome to that site.

These selections are all pillars, which is an important concept in your design. They grow vertically and not (very much at all), horizontally. I've seen a 30 foot tall hedge in zone 4a in Iowa of Holmstrup and it was outstanding. I was on a garden tour this summer.

Dax
wisconsitom
13 years ago
Hey Dax, Plymp states in his opening gambit that 6-7 feet was the desired height. I don't call that tall. While my Woodward Globe idea may not be to his liking, I'm not seeing how it is 10X wrong!

Just saying. For a truly low- to no-maintenance plant that will produce a nice low screen, it's hard to beat, at least in my construct of reality.

+oM
gardener365
13 years ago
This guy wants height right now Tom. Sorry to bicker.

Dax
wisconsitom
13 years ago
As far as height is concerned, and clearly, in a bickering mood, Woodward will easily outpace the ultra slow-growing Holmstrup.

;^)

+oM
gardener365
13 years ago
Tom - This man doesn't want to prune a globe shape that's 6-7 foot tall -- "and" often. That's creating work to plant Woodward/Woodwardii. He needs a strictus-variety. Re-read his pruning requirements - and I'm quite sure he won't find a 5'x5' globe Arborvitae, however, he will easily find 5 and 6 and 8 foot tall Holmstrup's. It's common sense, I won't argue any more about it. His space requirements can't manage anything wider than 4-5 feet, maximum. Whether it's 10X or 2X it doesn't matter, it's clearly, the wrong plant. I'm sorry........
A quote earlier from you that I didn't write about last time because, well because, I read it myself.....
"In time, woodward globe can get up to 8 or 10 feet tall, but this takes decades."

This guy don't wanna wait 10 or 15 years. You and I both have worked around plants a long time - me in the nursery trade, you in the landscaping trade. Can you tell me the last time you found a Woodwardii globe at a nursery that was larger Than 3' x 3' ? Myself, I've never recalled seeing one larger than 3 x 3.

Dax
wisconsitom
13 years ago
True enough Dax, if he does indeed need the "instant effect". I'm not sure I read that in the OP or later posts. Also, I did recommend that NO pruning is needed ever with the globes. That, to me, is one of the key benefits of using these as a close-spaced screen. The one I installed at Ma and Pa's is a thing of beauty. It has simply worked out perfect.

But I don't think Mr. Plympton is gonna go with the globes.

+oM
gardener365
13 years ago
You're a gentleman and a scholar Tom.
I appreciate you not ripping my face
off like so often it happens on here.

Dax
wisconsitom
13 years ago
Ah, but my hand was poised in a pre-face ripping off position! Just kidding bud. There's nothing too stressful about lobbing opinions back and forth over these here interwebz.

+oM
benhansen
13 years ago
Have you considered Emerald Green's?
If price isn't an issue, you should be able to get 6 foot tall, 24" wide Emeralds for about $30/ tree. Plant them 2 feet apart, and you'll have an instant 6 foot hedge. Because snow is an issue, use cloth to tie the top of branches together. You won't see the cloth, and it will protect the branches from drooping in heavy snows. Plant with cotton burr/ soil. Feed with "Mushroom Stuff" when planting, and a few times a year, along with Holly Tone fertilizer in the spring and fall. You'll have a beautiful, evergreen hedge.

I have 75 GG's that are 15' tall, the top halves are a bit sparce. So if you planted 6' GG's, the top 3 feet of those would be very sparce.

GG's are amazing trees, but I don't think they are what you're looking for. Unless you want a 40 foot hedge, and no 6 foot privacy for a few years.
two_tone
13 years ago
I planted 19 four footers, on my fence line they reached the top of the fence when planted in clay soil. I lost 4 trees & replaced them with smaller ones. In the time frame of 3-4yrs, some trees have doubled in height, the small replacements are over the top of the fence. I added 4 more from home depot that were 6 footers last year, most trees are taller than them, a few in the back look 12-14 feet right now. Spacing is 5 feet with a total of 23 trees.
I plan on adding 5-6 more next spring, but these will be the six footers fron home depot in spring.
They are awesome trees, I think I should reach 30 feet in height, if taller thats ok with me too.

Thuja Green Giant as a 6' hedge?

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Thuja Green Giant as a 6' hedge?

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