It's not as bad as I thought it would be judging from your preamble. I think in this case, given that it is a bad time of year to be messing with the root system of a transplant, and given that it's not really so horrendous, I'd plant as is.

+oM

That thing is nasty. Save your receipt.

I never got the impression you were dominating this forum. You have a valid question. This forum is for those, me included, that need help.

Don't plant it as is. Let's work with it.

Take the fiber top off and soak the root ball in a bucket to get things pliable and loosened up.

Hose the remaining dirt out, not to much pressure, and begin to sort things out.

Once the plant is relived of all dirt remove all rotten and/or discolored roots. Trim the largest, thickest roots by cutting 50% of the root off. Be sure to leave all the bright white roots, they are still in good condition

With the roots spread out enough plant centered on top of a mound of dirt crowing the root flare 2 inches above grade. Back fill and water thoroughly. Using your index finger let dry out down to 2nd knuckle the water thoroughly again.

Dave

I am very much a novice when it comes to conifers and trees, but I would not tear apart the rootball this time of year. If it were me, I would soak the rootmass briefly and tease out 1/16" of the roots and plant it. Thats it. If you feel the need for root surgery, next early spring is the right time to do so. At that time, you'll find the roots have relaxed substantially and have probably begun to straighten out on their own!

I have a near 100% mortality rate when I have broken apart the rootmass on an actively growing conifer.

i would put it back in the pot ...

put it on the walkway on the north side of the house.. and woater it every few days ...

and do what dave says.. when night temps are in the 60's FOR GOOD .. in september ...

and then in my z5.. plant it immediately.. two full cool seasons to grow roots.. before the heat of next summer.. the suspended animation of ground freeze does NOT make winter drought a possibility ...

since i am not PNW .. most likely you will be told to ignore my advice ...

ken

ps: this pine in MI would be near bullet proof.. but for planting in july/august ...there should be nothing foo foo about it

I still don't think it's that bad. I thought we'd see a lot of circling roots and big ones too. I would certainly not advise any major removal of energy-storing roots for that poor thing going into the ground this time of year. I guess what we have here is a difference of opinion!

+oM

"I guess what we have here is a difference of opinion"!

That's good. Sometimes our advice doesn't take in all areas of the country. Just where we live.

Sometimes I buy a spot on plant in the middle of summer. I would not hesitate to prune plant this time of year if normal weather conditions prevailed. There are exceptions such as the drought/heat conditions are now in the Midwest. I still would go ahead and restructure the root system now and up-pot to a 3 gal. container. Give it some protection and care then plant this Fall.

Dave

'Cleary' is most durable. I reworked mine last summer and planted in the fall. If I remember root bound more the yours.

Pinus parviflora 'Cleary'.{{gwi:773352}}

tom ...

what we fear.. is what was done to the roots when it MIGHT have been in a two 1/4 inch pot.. which is buried 4 more inches in side ...

to get root stock big enough for grafting.. many times one must grow the understock in pots for a couple years.. before they can even graft ...

and the key is.. going in there and looking ... i have had at least a handful.. up and die 5 years later.. due to such ... i will post the pics if they are still in my acct ... below

anyway.. fiddle ... seems like the only posts we can actually not bicker at each other on.. are the ones where we all try to help the newbie .. so keep posting.. or else the forum might die .. i blame the heat ...

ken

it wasnt easy to find them.. and let me suggest.. those circling roots are EXACTLY the size of a one gal pot .. and it should be obvious.. that it did put out some strong laterals.. but for choking itself to death.. it should have lived ..

{{gwi:336328}}

{{gwi:336329}}

{{gwi:675189}}

{{gwi:675190}}

{{gwi:773353}}

{{gwi:675191}}

{{gwi:675192}}

THANK YOU, EVERYONE! What I'm concluding from your variety of thoughts is that there is no one right way.

Ken, that is one ugly root system! I'm embarrassed to tell you that our nighttime temperatures almost NEVER go above 60, and this summer even our daytime temps stop at 70... seems bad of me to tell you while you are sweltering so!

Here's what I did... I followed Dave's advice specifically for one reason. The fiber top he referred to was actually NOT a fiber top, but a mass of roots completely circling the top of the pot.

Did I say how much I appreciate you all?
Dave, how is that T-rex?
I'm sending some virtual rain to all you midwesterners! You all need a road trip out this way to replenish your collection...

Ellen

i dont like your potting media ... especially in the second to last pic ...

pine like a drink and near total drainage .. looks like too much peat to me...

i would EITHER.. get a bag of cactus mix ... or a bag of mini bark chunks.. and mix it 50/50 with what is already in the pot ...

IMHO.. you have potted it like a water loving perennial.. and that is not good for a pine..

i have a few choice words on your temps.. which i will leave to your imagination ... lol

ken

Thanks, Ken! I wondered about that. I have bark chunks. I will fix that right now before the little guy wakes up from surgery.

I won't tease you further about the weather...

It does help that you're in the cool NW. Steg's right-one must make allowances for such. I've repotted up enough nursery stock to know true horror may lie within! But near as I could tell from the first pic, and now from the subsequent pics, such was not especially the case here. It'll probably be fine.

+oM

Thanks, +oM! I'll post a pic in October if I remember! It's up to the little guy now...
Ellen

Fiddlegal, I appreciate your posting as I have wondered about the whole root surgery thing myself and have not found any specific posts (or have been unable to find them using the search option) where I could learn about the subject. Your posting generated a lot of great info!

I would love it if others would point to further informational posts that they have earmarked on how to deal with the separating and root pruning in the proper fashion? Of course, I would wait until a more proper planting time but I have 4 trees, in pots, planted in the ground waiting for fall and I expect to need that information in the future. Thanks for everyone's input in advance (and I hope you don't mind Ellen that I'm asking in your thread!)

Robyn

The last thing I'd want to leave anyone believing here is that I don't think potted stock frequently has root problems. It does! I just didn't see this example as especially serious.

For years, the Wisconsin Arborist Association, of which I've been a member for 24 years, had a regular display at all the major functions, consisting of a bunch of big tables full of post-mortem root systems. Every variation on gawd-awfulness was there to be seen. Some had to do with containerized production, some did not. But if anything, we've just continued to learn more about this since.

@ Windhaven: Other than the recommendation to trim off 50% of the largest roots, with which I disagree, dcsteg's directions are right on, IMO. I'd add only that this central cone of soil at the base of the planting hole needs to be fairly firm and compact or otherwise, we're right back at the point of a plant being placed at the correct depth only to later sink into soft soil as water settles things.

Whenever I see a specific number, usually expressed as a percentage, ie. trim no more than 30% of branches, or in this case, remove 50% of the largest, thickest roots, it rings false. Or at best, arbitrary. But in all other respects, this is the ideal methodology to use, when warranted by a poorly formed root system.

BTW, I've pretty much destroyed nice plants by adhering too closely to such method, although in the case I'm thinking of, it was more due to a too-late-in-the-year planting. I bought some extremely handsome Abies nordmanniana at an end of year sale, in Nov. These were potted and had horrible circling roots, not at all like OP's plant. So of course, I did my best to spread them out and had to do a fair amount of cutting. Those trees never had a chance after I got through with them. There just wasn't sufficient time for the roots to readjust to their surroundings before the ground froze tight. I should have buried the pots and worked them over the following spring.

+oM

BTW, I've pretty much destroyed nice plants by adhering too closely to such method

===>>> no tom.. you did all you could do to TRY to save them ...

they were already destroyed.. by the time you got them .. its the optimist/pessimist conundrum ...

dont you think??

when looking to buy one gal stock of any type of plant .. i was never adverse to tipping them out .. into my hand.. at the store.. and summarily refusing to buy the worst, especially in regard to roots .. EVEN IF I HAD TO WALK AWAY from a plant that had long been on my TO DIE FOR LIST ... [note the word die in there.. lol] ... the roots are really.. more important than the plant above.. so you should be shopping the root mass.. given the opportunity ...

my concern with the one above ... second pic .. had i tipped it out.. would be the lack of white root tips ... but i usually shopped in spring.. when the roots were freshly growing .... i cant say i ever shopped conifers this time of year .... so perhaps the lack of white tips is OK... anyone????

ken

I do the 50% cut back on the largest roots in order to stimulate new growth on the more manageable left intact root system.

Usually these big roots are gnarled twisted and unmanageable in most cases. If manageable I leave more intact.

Yes you need to compact dirt mound. Sometimes I assume most gardeners should know the basic principals of transplanting and I forgo making a long story longer.

Bottom line: It works for me. Just to be safe give others who have responded to your thread careful consideration regarding their advice on what to do. I am not the only fish in the tank.

Dave

Thank you for providing incredibly valuable information to all participants in this post! There should be a sticky on this forum that would bookmark this under a FAQ section.

The info provided so concisely here in one reading surpasses what Ive been able to discover on my own in a couple years! Thank you again Dave, Ken, Tom, and especially Ellen for asking an excellent question!

JR

Whether the plant survives or not, we've all learned a lot There are so many variables to this business... time of year, age of plant, number of years in pot bondage, climate... I suggest when others do their root treatment, take and post pix. We can continue to learn!

Ken, I will check the roots at the nursery from this point on. Somehow I felt like I should be hiding behind a statue while looking inside the pot! Thanks for freeing me from that silliness. I must remember, it's not underwear!

What you do about those peat pots when the roots have started growing through them?

Ellen

Whether the plant survives or not, we've all learned a lot There are so many variables to this business... time of year, age of plant, number of years in pot bondage, climate... I suggest when others do their root treatment, take and post pix. We can continue to learn!

Ken, I will check the roots at the nursery from this point on. Somehow I felt like I should be hiding behind a statue while looking inside the pot! Thanks for freeing me from that silliness. I must remember, it's not underwear!

What you do about those peat pots when the roots have started growing through them?

Ellen

I hope that no one is offended if I ask another question that follows this same topic.

I have four smaller conifers still in their pots, planted in the ground in a half day sun situation, for fall planting. They seem to be doing fine and actually better than some I went ahead and planted last month. Is this acceptable? and if not, why? I found it too hard to keep them sufficiently watered while still getting sun everyday and I'm waiting for a big tree to be cut down to create the new area for fall planting.

Thanks in advance!

Windhaven, I buried some conifers in their pots in my raised garden beds over winter, because I did not get their bed prepared in time. That was very much the right thing to do then, the ground protected their root systems in our harsh cold.

Whether you bury your pots or leave above ground there is the same risk of developing circling roots because it is the growing season, but in the ground the earth will help moderate the heat on those black pots, and you likely get more appropriate water movement through the soil as well.

I think as long as you don't forget they are still in their pots that is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.

I had to "fix" badly girdled root-balls on 2 pines from Forestfarm some yrs back. After soaking & removing all the soil, much of the roots had to be cut away. After planting, they then sulked for yrs, but now have recovered.

I'm glad I did it, tho.

Thanks for the response Greenhaven. I will do my planting in the fall and in the mean time, my precious new trees are safer in (their pots) in the ground.

Does anyone know of any threads that specifically deal with a show and tell on the whole root surgery/untangling/etc?

Robyn

With plants like this I tease some of the most outter roots and then plant it. I then come back to it a season later and all the compressed roots deteriorate and the live roots loosen up a bit. Then I can more easily untangle the plant. I just figured this out after transplanting a few plants from my hold over bed.