nandina The wall sounds good, and I can assure you it would be much LESS expensive than the panels (we finally got some prices yesterday - ouch!). DH and I had talked about something similar (only hadn't thought of the steps) - we're afraid we'll end up with something that looks like a fortress! Are you able to envision this so that it would look welcoming while still providing the protective function? At the moment, regardless of look, I am leaning toward this idea... gottagarden Thas was basically DH's idea - I'm just having trouble envisioning it. But then, I'm having trouble envisioning nandina's too - maybe the problem is with my vision! Ink I had it the other way around - I thought I had been presented with a necessary function (protection from the water), so I was trying to come up with a form to make it pleasing. As for beavers, I am really unhappy with beavers. While the yard was flooded, my new larch 10 foot tall larch tree had only 1 foot showing above water. While I was watching, a beaver came along and gnawed the top off and swam away with it! Darn beaver. laag yup, that's what I meant by my title for this thread. Interesting project. And relevant. Yes, things have changed since '97 (yes, it was '97) and they may affect us. The city built a higher dike, providing protection to 60 feet. Although they moved some buildings further back from the river, to make the channel through downtown wider, it still of course is a narrow channel in downtown. They also build a diversion system around the city to collect water from overland flooding and from the coulee that runs through town. The diversion dumps back into the river only about one mile upstream of us. I never wanted to live along the river, but DH and I fell in love with this property. Before we purchased, I had conversations with everyone I could think of - city engineer, army corps of engineers, EERC (energy and environmental research center), etc. The people that own the farmstead immediately downstream of the diversion had commissioned a study by the EERC to find out how it would affect our river flow. Their study claims that in a flood the magnitude of '97, the diversion would raise the river at our location by a whopping four inches. In the end, we were lulled by the presumption that 1997 was truly the Flood of the Century. I no longer believe that. I also am not certain I believe the EERC's study of the effects of the diversion. IOW, I understand exactly what you are saying both about others' actions affecting our water levels, and about anything we do affecting those downstream. I can say though, that if we build something close to the house, it will only affect the river in a flood of '97 magnitude (or very close to). At that point most, if not all, of the houses around us will be flooded. melanie So you can envision the wall too? Hmm, I need to work on my imagination. Yes, the grass is dead - the grass that was covered in the *summer* flood last year. The grass that was covered this spring is just fine - greening up nicely. Thank you for the link. I glanced quickly at it and noticed willows and though, duh! There are willows at the back of the field next to us that flood every spring, and they are doing fine. I love that willows come in many varieties with interesting bark and winter interest, so am thinking I definitely need some willows. Also, if my larch has survived, I will put in more larch. The wildrye would be an excellent choice. I am thinking we can work on this. It gives me something to do since whatever is decided regarding a floodwall will not be hands on for me. karinlThe original problem is the allowing of building on flood plains at all Well, that is a rather inflammatory statement - and as you say, political. We should also not build in earthquake zones, or along tornado alley, or the entire gulf and southern Atlantic coast due to hurricanes. Nor should we allow towns in Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and southern California because of fire hazard. Towns were originally built along rivers to meet the needs of the settlers for transportation and procurement of supplies. This land has an amazingly rich soil and is wonderfully productive. Remember that when you have pasta - the durum wheat was likely grown here, or french fries from McDonald's - the potatoes are from here, or use Crystal sugar - the sugar beets may be from here, or use canola oil or eat sunflower seeds. This land was settled for farming, but the settlers needed the rivers for transportation. Sorry if I am sounding annoyed, but I found this to be a rather "superior" sounding comment. And yes, we North Dakotans tend to have an inferiority complex and always assume people are making snide comments about us . As for an umbrella management plan, see my reply to laag. The city has a plan and has implemented vast improvements since 1997. However, we do not live in the city limits. The dikes and diversions can only be extended so far. You provided a link to Winnipeg's floodway, and they do indeed have good protection (which was also implemented after a devastating flood). However, the same problem exists for people who live outside Winnipeg city limits. If you drive to Winnipeg, you see farmsteads outside the city with big ring dikes. Yes, the individuals are left on their own, but I don't see how a city could be expected to protect those outside its limits (who don't pay taxes of course). And Winipeg is downstream, the river flows north. isabella Thank you for the comments. 1) yes, it was an attempt at a joke to title this thread the way I did, and yes the protection is most important, but I think one can try to have that be attractive as well as functional. 2) interesting. I was under the impression that these had not yet been used in the US. Can I ask the name of the company that made yours? 3) I will keep this in mind. We will be hiring help, but wanted to get some idea of our plans first, so that we know WHO to hire! Thank you so much for the advice and concern.

Wow! What a treatI can't figure out how to update my member page with an e-mail, so that it can tell me when people add to a thread. Just realized a few minutes ago that Coralbelle and Dax had posted. Beautiful pictures are starting to form in my head. If I'm not real careful, I'll be throwing caution to the wind and going on a mail-order binge despite my best-laid plan to try to go local and do a trip to St. Louis area for more possibilities. Coralbelle- For me your several vignettes with 'De Groots' are a bonanza of ideas. SShhhhDon't tell Ken, but I'm awfully fond of fragrant hostas. Might have to tuck one or two in the shadier corner of this border. If Ken finds out, he might start tempting me with 'Stained Glass' or 'Diana Remembered', which I don't have yet. That would just add to the temptation you guys are giving me! "The third is again a trio of Spires with three Chamaecyparis pisifera (I forget the name - variegated yellow but very subtle) and a sweep of Hakonechloa macra 'Aureola.' This is a much larger vignette at the front of the house and I love it." Is this your grouping that's in the driveway border? Dax- "Make it look unusual! That's the plan right." You got it! And that's my weak point in terms of trying to resist the temptationsIt isn't clear to me yet how hard it will be to move from the notes and mental view into actual conifers found and planted in a reasonably artful way. 'Pusch' / 'Acrocona Pusch' -- Definitely a mail-order catch, right? But I do have a thing for red cones! 'De Groot's' Thuja -- This is one I'm hoping to find in St. Louis. Sounds like MBG likes it, too, but I still need to check their "Locate this plant" link. Where did you guys find yours? Okay, okay, on the Daphne. Maybe it's time to try one. Now, where am I putting it? Yesterday, I spent a little time at the ACS website, and I checked out all the Abies balsamea cultivars, thinking that these are pretty fragrant? Is that right? I think I noticed 'Weeping Larry', but I don't remember why. What's his growth rate likely to be? "Chief Joseph' sounds stunning. I think, however, you are trying to lure me into planting the whole border of my drive down to and into the hell strip. Why not, I say? Well, Hubby has to be slowly coaxed into these things, too! But maybe the Chief needs to be on my Must Have Some Day list. In my mind's eye I understand that the sharper breeds would add a hint of somethingcleannessrefinement? but for now I can resist the sharper needled forms. There's just too much I don't have. Now your hemlock suggestionwell, I just may have to have one of those. You called her a beautytwice. 'Gentsch's White' -- "soft. White-tipped and arching foliage in a globe form. A beauty." Sounds like she also needs to be on my "soft" list. Thanks again, guys. I'm wondering which I'll be able to track down. May have to give my two favorite local nurseries a call. They could "special order" for me and that might at least secure one or two of my choices or the 3 thujas that I'm still thinking might be a good start. You see, I have this gift card from Christmas And, yes, I'll keep you updated on where I go with this. Wellspring

On my larger trees I circle the tree trunk with the drip line and put 2 or 3 , two gallon per hour emitters on them. I then let it run in the summer for 3-4 hours at a time. So I think it is getting water well beyond the 12" line. I also then water by an area sprinkler in between those deep waterings for another 1-2 hours at a time to get the overall bed soaked as well to support the other shrubs and flowers. So I'm putting down fairly serious water in the summer to keep things going. Mark

Sorry about that - thought you might want to play the guessing game. They are, in order: Picea omorika 'Pendula Bruns' (from ACS) Picea orientalis 'Tom Thumb' (ACS) Larix k. 'Diane' Pinus t. 'Thunderhead' Juniperus h. 'Prince of Wales' on standard (bought locally) Cedrus d. 'Karl Fuchs' Pinus f. 'Glauca Reflexa' Metasequoia g. 'Miss Grace' Pinus s. 'Pendula' Cham. l. 'Snow Queen' Cedrus a. 'Glauca Pendula' Cham. o. 'Kerdalo' Tsuga c. 'Gentsch White' Tsuga c. 'Curly' Abies procera 'Glauca' Cedrus d. 'Klondike' Thujopsis dolobrata 'Nana' 6 Taxodium distichum This was the first year for mail order for me, and I was amazed at how good they looked when they arrived. I received 2 other deodora cedars (Devinely Blue & Gold Cascade) that lost all their needles shortly after arrival and I'm trying to nurse them back. All in all, the mail order from several suppliers has been a very good experience and a lot of fun receiving the packages. Thanks to all the Enablers!! Kim