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Newly planted hoopsii blue spruce

14 years ago

Hello, just planted 7 hoopsii in NE PA. Been watering daily for last 7 days. Appears needles are dropping. Is this normal new planting stress or a problem? Do I need to water more or? less

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Comments (5)

gardener365
14 years ago
You factor in all the stresses of summer and establishing root-systems and how you water with the type of soil you have, you can come up with a reason why your tree is being, stressed.

I'd water those deeply no matter your soil type by sitting a hose near the trunk on trickle and let it go for 1/2 an hour for each tree once weekly, maybe twice if I'm bored.

You can give them diluted 1/2 rate miracid every other watering too. That could help.

Dax
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
whats your soil ...

ball and burlap or potted .. size???

how did you plant them .. are they properly planted ...

never fertilize unless you have a soil test done and your soil actually needs something.. unless you are planting in dax's yard ...

is water actually getting to the root ball..

do they really need the water you are giving them.. or are you already drowning them??? or are you not watering deep into the rootball ...

more facts please ...

ken
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i am either failing to teach.. or you are missing my point ... lets start with you forgetting everything you already learned in this.. i do NOT care what you read about size anywhere ... with me so far ... see link and focus on the annual growth rate stuff ... under the caption: Conifer sizes hoopsi is in the large category.. i believe.. i told you above it will grow 12 to 18 inches per year .... to make the math easy.. lets presume 12 inches.. one foot ... a tag will tell you.. it will be 10 years times one foot tall .. or ten feet ... from that we can speculate .... in 20 years.. 20 feet.. in 30 years.. 30 feet ... [subject to your slowing down theory] so when you specify hoopsi .. and i tell you 18 inches.. simply do your own math ... and dont rely on some unnamed source.. like some website ... the annual growth rate.. of a standard picea pungens, of which hoopsi is [meaning not dwarf or mini, nor intermediate .. at the link] ... will just about always be the same ... and no.. clay will NOT change that growth rate.. soil is an issue of getting it going in the first place .. and you can do a post about how to plant them.. when you get that far ... also at the link.. in the banner.. hit coniferbase.. and add HOOPSI to the CULTIVAR box.. and you will see such ... and note there ... the 10 year size.. is listed at 15 feet.. so doing backwards math.. division.. lol ... they are saying it is more than one foot per year ... or.. get this.. 18 inches per year.. [15 feet time 12 inches.. divided by 10] .. which is .. shazamm.. the 18 inches i told you to begin with .... [considering i was winging it.. i am glad to be proven correct.. for once.. lol] below is a pic of mine with annual growth marked ... listen to me.. buy a superior plant.. and love the hell out of it for 10 or 15 years.. AND THEN GET RID OF IT... rather than choosing some plain old piece of carp.. because it fit there ... if you like the blue GO FOR IT ... you seem to be fixating on size being the only thing really important.. IT ISNT ... in my world anyway .... or pick the green one.. that flashes yellow at spring bud ... or the yellow one .. so many options.. so little space ... good luck ken or pick any of these ... Here is a link that might be useful: link
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picea pungens are seed grown ... of every 100 seeds.. you might get 60 green ones ... 39 blue ones ... and one super blue ... in theory.. they are all different based on genetics ... its all in the seeds most super blues have been named ... and if you want that super blue one.. you buy that named variety .... and they are all exactly the same.. because they have been grafted ... vs seed grown ... so that is why they are different. ... now.. if we presume.. that a tree is twice as big underground as above ... then you can understand that 90% of the roots were cut off your 6 footer ... it should be rather understandable.. that it may not flush out new growth as heartily as it might otherwise ... and i smaller transplant ... will be proportionally less effected .. i would give them about 2 to 3 years to re-establish their root mass.. before i would start worrying about them.. your only goal.. is to get them to live... so.. its possible they may never look exactly the same ... if you care to post a pic of the other... then maybe they can compare .. below is a specimen of picea pungen Hoopsi .... planted from one foot tall .. allowed to grow naturally.. rather than shearing it into a xmas tree form ... i would suggest you forget about them being twins of each other as to form.. and just let them do their own things .... ken
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Wow - you dug up a seriously old post! So I did end up planting a very long screen -- basically the entire length of the property line -- and I'm actually really happy with how it turned out. We used Thuja Green Giant arborvitae in the center where the tallest part of the house we are trying to block out is -- we planted them a decent distance apart, not all jammed up like I see people do for a property line screen. They have grown fast, widened out, and are basically almost up to the roof of the house we are trying to hide. I think they should cap out right about 35 feet or so, which won't block the view. We planted a few during our initial planting then filled in with a few more a couple years later -- those later plantings are a bit stunted - not sure if it's because we squeezed them into less space or they were just inferior to begin with (originals came from a nursery and were planted by a landscaper, later ones from Home Depot and we DIYed them). But they are all growing well and healthy, and seem impervious to deer, wind, cold, snow, etc. To the sides of the arborvitate, we used Nellie Stevens hollies. They too have grown fast. They don't much care for the wind -- they ended up looking pretty bad by the end of the last two winters (which were brutally cold and windy) but they filled in with new leaves in the spring. The deer don't seem to eat them either. And again, I think they cap out at 20 feet or so. To the sides of that (which is getting away from blocking the house and now just screening their yard from ours) we used forsythias planted very close together that we let grow wild into a thick hedge -- mainly because I love forsythia. It's not evergreeen but the hedge is so thick and branches are so close together that it does a decent job of screening even in winter. And in spring when it is in bloom, it is an absolutely stunning wall of yellow. Again the deer don't bother them and they seem to grow well without much care. And finally at the very end of the property lines, we used sea green junipers -- again, we were looking for something evergreen but it didn't need to be tall - we were only trying to hide the neighbor's "junk pile" which was unfortunately located so that it was the first thing you saw when you pulled into our driveway. Those are the plants that look the sickliest -- there's always big brown patches in them and the snow breaks the branches. But they are farthest from the house and from far away they look ok, so I don't mind them. I think if I had to do it over again, I'd have used all forsythia instead of also using juniper -- the forsythia are just so amazingly gorgeous when they are in bloom. I would take a picture for you but we are in the middle of a storm right now -- if I remember, I will get one tomorrow. Here's a link to a pic of what it looked like when we first planted itin 2009: Newly planted And here's a shot from the summer of 2012 (sorry for lousy pic -- best I could find): Three years old I would say that this year it really started to look good since the green giants are basically touching now.
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Here are some of the potential problems: 1) planting time - I understand that the weather didn't turn out like you expected, but waiting just a little while would have been less stressful for the tree. 2) planting hole size - Based on the picture, it appears your hole should have been around three times as wide as it was. Unless the rootball was absolutely tiny in comparison to the tree (which hopefully it wasn't), your hole was just barely big enough to hold it. See section 4 in the above link. 3) roots - From your description, I wonder if you eliminated circling/pot-bound roots. If not, the tree is likely to suffer or fail later on. See section 3a in the link. 4) watering - You should definitely have watered the tree when it was planted. Even if you planted it in the middle of a rain storm, it needed to be watered in well. Now, you need to keep a careful check on soil moisture both around and inside the rootball. See section 12 for information on how to do this. 5) grass - As Ken suggests, I'd eliminate a 2' radius ring of grass from around the base of the tree and apply some good mulch.
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johnnyk3
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks for the responses. The soil is topsoil from my area in NE PA. I brought in a lot of topsoil as the lot I purchased was low to the street. The treea are 6' or a bit more in balled burlap. Did not remove burlap and planted so ball is slightly above level of bed. I made little pond areas around the base of the trees to capture the water. Don't know if I am watering too much or too litle as I thought newly planted trees required a daily watering?? Could be too much? Any help in watering instructions and or additional care tips would be appreciated.
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
14 years ago
late june is a hazard time ... the heat is coming .. we have to work fast to come to a good answer ...

since they were just planted.. you need to take a trowel and dig a few inches out from the root ball.. at least half the depth of the root ball .. and find out.. way down there.. if it is sodden or droughted ...

if it is dry down there.. stick the hose in.. on a slwo trickle.. and dampen it .. the whole ball ...

if sodden.. do not water again.. until it nearly dries .... roots need air as much as water ....

KNOWING what is going on down there is imperative ... since there is no way the roots have grown out... it shouldnt hurt the plant .. but the knowledge will help ...

why did you plant high.. is your soil clay????

did you mulch ...

i too use what i call the moat system ...

what might also help.. is to dig an independent hole... 5 gal pot size.. fill it with water.. and see how long for it to drain away ... in my sand... 5 gals can be gone in as little as a few minutes ...

this determines DRAINAGE ... pungens like a drink.. and then dry .. if yours are actually standing in water because you dug a clay cauldron ...... that might be your answer ...

will keep checking back..

ken
Embothrium
14 years ago
Dig it up and take the burlap etc. off. This will also give you a chance to see if it is sitting in a mire, which it might be having been watered daily.

When the burlap comes off you will also have a chance to tell if the original soil ball is actually on the dry side, resisting becoming re-moistened due to soil texture differences.

In my area it is common for balled in burlap stock to have become dried out between the grower's field and the final planting site.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Myth of Collapsing Rootballs

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