I like FORESTLAKE RAGAMUFFIN and Jamie Gossards PUFFER FISH much better so I don't see what all the fuss is about. Ok it has a nice spiney edge, but I'm not keen on the color, it might be good for breeding, and the people buying are probably hoping it will bloom and they can use pollen to recoup the cost by selling seed. The sad fact is it may not bloom this coming year, and by the time it does in 2009 what will the market be?

I also wonder if all the seed that has been sold really has BASS GIBSON in it since there is no telling what you will get out of a cross there is no guarantee that you will get something with a big spiney edge anyway.

I also wonder about some of the crosses I see listed at the lily auction -- not necessarily Bass Gibson, mind you, but I have seen lots of crosses listed that I have tried, myself, and have failed to produce any pods despite numerous attempts.

As far as the price of Bass Gibson is concerned, though, I seem to remember that it was only sold if you bought the whole collection, and so folks originally had to plunk down a thousand bucks to get it. Sure, they got the rest of that year's collection as well, but I sure don't see much action on any from that year OTHER than Bass, so in order to recoup their expenses for purchasing it originally, I would think the price of that whole collection needs to be taken into account.

"to recoup their expenses for purchasing it originally, I would think the price of that whole collection needs to be taken into account."

That's a good point, tragar; in fact, I'd forgotten about it. But the question is about buy-side behavior...why people will pay $X for it.

IMO, part of the excitement is akin to a snowball effect....as you said, you had to shell out major money initially for it, so "everyone" wanted BASS GIBSON. Then, because "everyone" wanted it, "everyone else" who subsequently saw it on the auction wanted it, then "even everyone else," and so on.

Notice I said "part" of the excitement. Because bambi is right that there are other toothy ones. And more coming every year. Maybe part of the excitement is that teeth are such a distinct and unusual type of edge - a real contrast to the ruffles and bubbles being produced so often?

Maybe the excitement is due to a combination of factors: BASS GIBSON was/is scarce, it has teeth, it is not a FORESTLAKE RAGAMUFFIN color....?

I just thought of another factor. BASS GIBSON is not a southern-bred daylily, so northern growers have the chance to actually see teeth on a plant and, theoretically, to impart that characteristic to offspring.

PUFFER FISH is Northern bred, and FORESTLAKE RAGAMUFFIN is from Virginia, which is not too far south. When I was talking about recovering costs, I was talking about the plant that is on sale now on the LA, not the ones originally sold by John Rice.

You're right of course. I don't know why I didn't connect PUFFER FISH with Jamie right off the bat. I think it's because I'd just seen WINTER CROWN on the auction, and I was thinking southern. :)

I'm friends with the high bidder at the moment. He'll go higher too ! I'm sure he plans on using the pollen for making seed - perhaps increasing it and selling a fan...who knows. Its pretty much hit or miss with single fans blooming up here in CT. I got a SF of Gary Colby last spring - it split almost immediately, threw up 3 scapes and I used the pollen on everything but the kitchen sink. By the fall it was 3 fans plus an increase. On the other hand I had a few DF that didn't bloom at all.
I often wonder too about the authenticty of some seed crosses. I've seen some really suspect listings - where the best flower is always the pod parent throughout all there listings. For example I saw Blue Hippo x something stupid like strawberry candy, etc. I try to avoid obscure sellers and stick with the reputable ones, although I do try new sellers out as well. A certain level of trust and risk is involved at the auction . When my seedlings bloom this year and they look nothing like the crosses - whos to say there not genuine? You really can't claim someone sold you a fake cross, or can you? Sorry for straying from the topic. Overall I think a daylily is only worth, what someone will pay for it :)

I guess that's just the chance you take...if one is really super duper worried about the genuineness of the crosses, they would buy the lilies and cross them themselves. Of course, if you're like me and can't afford the expensive ones, but I don't have to have them to be happy, there are a lot of cheaper pretty pretties to be had and be happy with! Good luck to your friend, hope he wins that lily!

Karen

Can't afford Bass gibson. I have For.RagaMuffin and Heavenly Beginnings. I oredered Golden tentacles and am considering Paula Nettles. Anyone know anything about Paula Nettles. These four all have teeth and are nice looking daylilies. I also have one that was hybridized locally that is out of For. RagaMuffin. It has teeth and is a very pretty flower with good plant habits. Mike.

"I've seen some really suspect listings - where the best flower is always the pod parent throughout all there listings. For example I saw Blue Hippo x something stupid like strawberry candy, etc."

Can you explain this to me? Why does it make you leery?

"I try to avoid obscure sellers and stick with the reputable ones."

Understandable. But reputable sellers were once obscure ones, and some obscure ones might be worth taking a small risk with. Let's see....one of these days, I could sell seeds with BLUE HIPPO, etc as a parent. Yet I've been only a buyer so far. I guess that makes me obscure. :)))

Seriously, when a new seller has offerings I like, I think it might be even better to bid. I figure the seller would like to create the best reputation possible by offering great plants.

This has strayed far OT. Apologies.

I have all of the "toothy" ones being discussed here and quite frankly BASS GIBSON is easily the best of the lot. Granted, its color is no favorite of mine, but most of the ones discussed here have tendrils, hooks, knobs etc, not sharks teeth. I would rate the color as more appealing (to me) than PUFFER FISH, PAULA NETTLES or FL RAGAMUFFIN. By last fall, it had increased to 5 fans (we sold one for $546 on the auction) and it is easily pod and pollen fertile here. If I had it all to do over again, the only thing I would do differently is buy more than one of John's collections in 2006.

Dale

Lynxe: I can explain that one. When a person lists some seeds such a Blue Hippo x Strawberry Candy and I'm interested in bidding on them, I'll click on the sellers other auctions link before hand to check out other possible crosse - and possibly combine shipping. That Blue Hippo x Strawberry Candy could be a legit cross for that day - but upon closer examination all there listings are Blue Hippo as pod, best flower as pod, etc , like almost there streching the truth and maniplulating the cross by reversing it to appeal to more. Some people don't care as long as their parents. Some , like myself , do care...and said auctions in my opinion are " SUSPECT " so I don't bid. Its also a little unfair of you to quote me out of context. If you read my post entirely - it says I do try new sellers out . I've been upset with some of the stuff I've gotten from some people , but was afraid to leave bad feedback and possibly get a revenge neg.feedback in return. I mostly buy expensive crosses also , which most noobs don't list. So I usually buy from the 4 or so sellers which I've had nothing but great transactions. This post is way off topic, but I couldn't resist :(

I think I see what you're saying -- that there could not possibly be that many pods on a new/fairly new plant. Right?

OTOH, if the seller was from the south, it's quite possible there was enough increase to allow for multiple pods. Some southern sellers are already selling SFs of '08s before northern buyers have even received their plants!

But I'd be suspicious, too, in most cases. With my newest ones, I played backyard hybridizer a bit, but certainly not enough to enable me to do what you describe some sellers as seeming to do. Usually, I let my new plants flower once, to make sure they're what they're supposed to be. Sometimes, I couldn't help myself, and I let them continue to flower. In a few cases, if the plant seemed vigorous and happy, I'd set one pod on it. In a very, very few cases, multiple pods, but that'd be three at the very most. I'm not even sure I went that high - maybe just two pods. All other crosses used new ones as pollen parent.

Sorry I apparently misquoted you; that wasn't my intent....I do understand your point of course.

One explanation might be that people just aren't sure which name comes first in a cross and have just reversed pod and pollen parent.

Strawberry Candy x Blue Hippo seems odd enough of a cross to make, but not as odd as Blue Hippo x Strawberry Candy.

I'm looking forward to the Doves in Flight X Blue Hippo and the Blue Hippo X God Save The Queen, myself........