I think you are spot on. The point of the odd crosses is that if you have a valued plant in bloom you put the pollen on EVERYTHING ELSE in the garden that is blooming and then sell the seeds. I personnally think this is silly but people will buy Bass Gibson seeds even it the other parent is Strawberry Candy.

My ideal cross, and one I am hoping to make this year is Belle Cook X JT Davis. This is the cross that gave Frank Smith "Fame". I expect to get a good ruffle and edge. Hopefully some of my seedlings will also be dormant like "Fame". Another that I will be making is Belle Cook X Victorian Lace

Edward

I'm with both of you. I just went through all the seed listings on LA, and several that I looked at, all I could say was...why?
I did pick a few that looked interesting, but there are just so many that will not produce anything new or even more interesting than the parents. I will be crossing many of my daylilies this year and hope to make good choices.
Of course, some of the crosses that I thought looked redundant could be to try to bring out a feature or habit that is stronger. Right? To use that seedling with future crosses? I'm just learning all of this, but some of it seems obvious. I know what I want to try to produce in a new daylily and that's what I'm aiming for when I choose my crosses.
Funny that I found this thread, because I was considering asking the same thing, just now.
Nina

A good question and one with many answers. Your answer is a good one.

If you think about some of those crosses and wonder what they are doing remember that very few of the thousands of reg. cultivers have been used enough to prove what is in their makeup. Face it there are lots of combinations that just haven't been tried yet.

Just my humble opinion.

I do some really odd crosses, just to see waht will come out, some just happen while I'm walking around with pollen in my hand and I'm finished pollinating what I wanted to with it. Why not?

I did have one person e-mail me once and asked why on earth I had made a cross, and I honestly had to say that I didn't know.

This is a post where you can just agree with everyone! Yes, there are folks who hybridize with the "latest and greatest" just so they can sell the seeds. Yes, there are people who choose their crosses with great care looking for one or more traits/colors. Yes, there are people who just cross whatever they have without thinking much about the outcome. Who have I left out?? Whoever that might be, they have their reasons (or lack thereof) too.

As to your question about "...what is the good stuff?" that is absolutely subjective. Some folks love bubbly edges, others hate them. Some love teeth, others don't. Some like spiders or other unusual forms while others folks don't have one in their garden and possibly never will. Some like orange, many do not. The same for the other colors. THe "good stuff" is what you like!

The great thing about daylilies is that whatever your preference may be, there are a group of cultivars that fit those preferences quite nicely! Another good thing is that you can choose which auction to bid on and which not to. None of my daylily friends have the time or the funds, and most don't have the land, to really pursue the next great break-through. But most of us have all three of those in adequate quantity to grow what we like and possibly hybridize around those "likes." And, of course, that is subject to change, too. Just because I really like a certain trait or color or etc., etc., today does not mean that I will not get excited about something different in a year or two - - and I'll very likely find different daylilies to satisfy my changes in preference!

Larry

Here's one for you.

This is from a Strawberry Candy seedling as the pod. This SC seedling is a look-a-like to Strawberry Candy, but has taller scapes and somewhat larger flower. The pollen is from Angel's Smile.

Now who'd a thunk this would come from that? This is a first year bloom from indoor started seeds. The plant is 10 months old.

{{gwi:678181}}

Wish it didn't have the mid-ribs and a taller scape (I like 28-32 inches). We'll see what happens this year.

Here is a link that might be useful: Our garden and seedlings; tell us what you think in our guestbook.

Are you kidding? that is a magnificent flower...and yes, I would guess that from Angels Smile, it tends to throw many of the star-burst type eyes. This one is exceptional...if you don't like the mid-ribs...let me know, I will send you my address....Bob Faulkner (Strawberry Candy is a fantastic breeder still today, and so is AS).

The thing is, you never know what will come out of a cross. It would be really easy to just cross purples with purples, reds with reds, and so on, but what happens when you cross a bright orange with a bold red eye with a water marked purple? I don't know either.......

I have about 24 seedlings of STRAWBERRY CANDY X INCHON that I have held on to for some reason. Here is a photo of 4 of them.

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I guess they'll all get a dose of TET GEORGE JETS ON this year.

Oh my gosh! I had the same question with every seed auction I looked at (and many that I bid on!).

I didn't worry about it so much this year because my point in buying seed is to a)learn germination & seedling culture over the winter and b)gain some of the genetics of those beautiful hybrids outside of my budget. If I get some "look alikes" to the parents I'll be thrilled. If I get some decent breeding stock or some seedlings to breed back to each other to draw out more of the positive traits, I'll be thrilled. I hardly expect to get something really "unusual" out of 2-15 seeds per cross- though I realize luck-of-the-draw could be a factor in there..keeps one anticipating anyway.

Bruce, that is a gorgeous seedling. And I do like both taller scapes and midribs :) I think that brings out two of the interesting points about crosses.

If you look at dl hybridizing history you learn that we nearly lost all spiders/ufo's and nearly all talls do to years of hybridizers selecting for smaller, rounder traits. Hybridizers actually went back to old cull piles to retrieve narrow petal, tall plants once they realized others were interested and there could be a market for them.

How many other interesting traits have been "bred out" of the gene pool? Browns? Grey's? Speckled/stripes? Would working with those have drawn out new colors or traits we don't even know are in the gene pool?

And, plants are more than a pretty face. On the auction seeds we don't get a good look at the plant habits, branching & bud count, foliage color, disease resistance, etc.

If you plan to sell plants I also believe that sometimes it's wise to keep some of those "discards" around because customers may be interested in something you don't necessarily find appealing.

One vendor I bought from did have clear goals in mind. He grouped his seeds by color- reds, yellows, near whites- etc. He also used J.T. Davis x everything so I have a lot of seedlings with that as one parent.

Two of the crosses I bought were open pollinated. With those it was just the idea that I liked the pod parent, hope to get 25% look-alike, and it was cheap seed to practice with. Besides surprises are always possible.

lilynut, that seedling is MAGNIFICENT! Just as it is, too. I'd buy it in a heartbeat as an intro. Or just as a seedling. :)

It's interesting that people use STRAWBERRY CANDY to make points about poorly conceived crosses. I see why, but I must tell you that, in an AHS display garden the year before last, I fell completely in love with a gorgeous clump of...of....(she leans down to check ID) of STRAWBERRY CANDY! It was the first time I'd ever seen it in a garden, and it was quite lovely.

Anyway, back to OT -- some hybridizers make "out there" crosses as well. And I think may be known for them. I can't recall names right now. But they've gotten intros out of their risk-taking.

Think about the cost of seeds on the auction. In many cases, you're not paying much to take a bit of a chance on an odd cross. Many people are doing the same crosses over & over. So the new & even strange has some appeal.

Pollinator Bob said, "Strawberry Candy is a fantastic breeder still today, and so is Angel's Smile."

Are there any more that are generally know to be 'good' for breading? A kind of, 'You will almost always get something good if you cross ___ x ___.

Especially for those of us who can't afford the new beautiful ones. What is a good pod parent to carry the pollen of a high $ ones that would let you get a close lookalike to the pollen parent. Something that tends to contribute other good things and not so much the flower? Is there something like that?

I am in the same boat with you berrytea4me, right now I am just trying to learn to grow the seeds. I got 75 random ones for 10 bucks just to practice with.

lilynut, WHAT A GORGEOUS FLOWER!!!!!! I'd call that a keeper in my garden any day of the week. I really like the mid-ribs on that one.

Folks thanks for the kudos on that seedling. That's whats so neat in hybridizing for us....the unknown factor! With the little hybridizing we've done...we've had some dumb luck involved with crosses produced. As the old saying goes...even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.

With all the possible combinations of genetics in a cross; does anyone think given any one cultiver, that all attributes have been discovered in it? We sure don't!

Bob,

We know where you live and you'll be the first in line if we decide it's not going to stay here. We'll bring our shovel with us when we visit you this year. You have some things we'd like to talk you out of in your seedling beds we're sure! We're lilydude on the LA...remember the email about the seeds you purchased?

moongardengirl,

Get some Ed Brown or Mandalay Bay Music. Both have produced good seedlings although in our limited experience with Ed Brown it doesn't like to give up some of it's attributes so easily. You'll get seedlings from both that will make you happy in your first experiments.

Cheers,
Bruce and Tanya

Bruce....I have metal detector at the gate...and a well-trained Jack Russell Terrier, oh, and don't forget about my 70 year old neighbor lady with the shotgun....but I'd love to have you visit. It's a fun place for sure. Back to the original question, I look thru the auction regularly...and some of the crosses I see offered make me shout out---"what are they thinking"...but who knows, some good flowers have come from some crazy crosses. Bob

lilynut, that is beautiful! bambi's are too.

This is somewhat off topic, but I'm wondering why STRAWBERRY CANDY gets such a bad rap. Since lynxe owned up, I will too... SC was the first dl I actually purchased and she's the reason I became interested not only hybrid daylilies, but in gardening on the whole! That plant put on one heck of a show the 1st yr in my garden!

Has she just become a Stella or what?

"SC was the first dl I actually purchased and she's the reason I became interested not only hybrid daylilies, but in gardening on the whole! That plant put on one heck of a show the 1st yr in my garden!

Has she just become a Stella or what?"

I still don't have that one, but from what I understand, the main issue is the color differences among gardens. In some, SC apparently blooms with quite an orange cast to it. And you know what some people think about orange.

Where I saw it, it was quite clearly a beautiful pink.

I think SC is readily available in most box stores and nurseries... so she becomes many people's, including mine, first Daylily. The attitude around her seems to be... been there done that and I am SO over it.

But since I am still a noob, I have plans to cross her with some of my watermarks like Magic Amethyst, Shores of Time, Half Moon Key, Hi Ho Silver. A friend of mine from here told me there is a theory that dark eyes plus watermarks sometimes come up as blue. I like the plant habits of SC - so I like the idea...

I also intend on trying to cross her with some of my very lates like Desiree. I think we need more lates in pink and purple/violet/lavender.

Hi all,

Strawberry Candy was something when it came out and alot of people grow it and are very happy with it. The colour has not been great in my garden but even it it were I am happier with what has come out since. The seedlings that have been posted in this thread are nicer than the parent, in my opinion, but I would still pass on having them in my garden. When I made the comment about crossing Bass Gibson with Strawberry Candy the first thing I imagined was "mud with teeth".

Edward

Ah, yes, I remember reading that in another thread now... it is clearly pink in my garden. Funny, had it an orange cast I probably wouldn't have been too disappointed, I'm not an orange-hater ;-)

Thanks for jogging my memory, lynxe.

Bob,

The 70 YO lady with a shotgun would be what keeps us out! No I didn't mean midnight shopping...we'd never think of doing that.

Back on topic. Here's a cross Tanya did and it had me scratching my head. Forsyth Commanche (Flesh pink polychrome with gold edge) X Pat Townsend (purple with gold edge green throat)

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I would've never done that, but look what showed up. Totally surprised me.

Another thing to consider is that many traits like ruffling and gold edges are recessive.

bambi_too,
I really like your strawberry candy seedlings. The color is bright and a pleasant coral (pink tones) as opposed to yellow/orange. They remind me of hybiscus flowers in Hawaii.

I really don't know why people would not use SC or Stella for that matter.

Both plants have nice qualities that could be beneficial to a line....sure they have a million offspring registered already but that does not mean they don't have anything to offer. Neither has terrible faults.

Some folks are going back to species stock for goodness sake. Why wouldn't you look around your garden and let the plants inspire you no matter how "common"? Of course if you are after a certain goal and those don't fit it, that may be different. On the other hand, even if you have "goals" I still believe a person has to let the creative mind "play" now and again.