Wouldn't some thinning be in order?

Yes, time for some thinning. Best to call in a commercial forestry service, they might do it for free if they can keep the wood harvested (though early thinnings tend not to be very profitable, so they might charge).

Best to avoid doing the work during the bird nesting season (now until the end of July) to avoid accidental disturbance to breeding birds.

Resin

NEVER TOP ANY TREE. ... or we will come looking for you ....

looks like you have a nice crop of fence posts there ... maybe you can find someone who can make some money off them ....

it may continue to be a nice grove if you simply pruned the canopy upwards .... i cant tell how far apart they are.. but it looks like a lot of CCC projects that were done in the 30's in upper MI ....

if you insist on taking them down ... take out every other one on the outside row .. them offset one tree and fell every other one in the second row .... felling them so they fall on the ones that previously fell ...

frankly ... based on the fact that you cant do it yourself ... i personally would probably prune over my head on the pathway .... and let ma nature take care of the rest ...

ken

I agree with Ken. Prune the the dead limbs up to live growth. With enough light getting in under the canopy the limb die off should slow down or completely stop.

Dave

Looks like it's time to drag out the chipper and start on all those dead limbs.

OK, Here's my dumb question for the day:
Ken, you say; "NEVER TOP ANY TREE...or we will come looking for you"............. WHY?

Sassy

I can't tell what these pines are--they look like they may be red pines (Pinus resinosa), but they may be Scots pines. I have had about 25 acres of pines that look just like these, except a lot of them were white pines and some spruces. I have thinned and pruned them (except for the Scots pines) and these groves are wonderfully beautiful now.

If they are red pines, they should be thinned and pruned. If they are Scots pines, I am not sure I would bother--the effort would be so great that the result might not be worth it. If they are Scots pines I would let them grow for a few more years and have them all cut for pulpwood, if there is any market for pulpwood in your area. You could get some decent payment for them. Then you could decide what to do with the land. If you want to save a few of the best ones for ornamantal trees, you could do that.

If they are red pines and if you enjoy some good physical work, you can thin and prune them and end up with a nice grove of trees. I have done a lot of thinning (and pruning) in groves like this. So, if they are red pines, and if you can handle a chain saw, I can give instructions on how to do the thinning.

If they are red pines and the work is not something you want to do, you could have them thinned for pulpwood by a commercial pulpwood cutter and get some cash. If they are thinned by a commercial operator, you need to decide how you want them thinned. Perhaps you could hire a consulting forester and see what is best based on what you want the grove to look like eventually. Pulpwood cutters normally will only cut trees in rows--sometimes they will take out every third row is, sometimes every other row, and if the rows work in the perpendicular direction also, then going the other way they can take out every other, or every third row that way also. After that kind of double direction thinning, the trees can look too sparce, but they can grow to fill in and still make a nice grove in another 10 years or so. If they are thinned by rows in only one direction, they won't really look that good because the trees left in each row will still be too close even though on other sides they will have more room.

Well, enough for now--give me some idea about what you want to do, give me a positive ID of what kind of trees you have, and I can advise you with much more detail later, if you wish.

To answer your last question--topped trees look bad and the ends where the tops are cut are entry points for rot that will weaken the trees. And for topping pines in groves--ugh!...what work and what poor results! Not an option here under any circumstances.

--Spruce

They're not Scots Pines, the needles (visible hanging on the dead branch at the right) are too long. I'd say Red Pine.

Resin

do you mean cutting the leader off to top the tree???

if so .. they will put up 6 or so new leaders.. and you will be back up there cutting them again in a few years ..

it sickens and weakens a tree ... prune properly to change a tree .. topping is not a real option to anyone who knows about trees ...

try the search function for tree topping ....

ken

Yes, Resin, I think red pine. What made me doubt a bit is the other characteristics of the trees. They seem a little weak for red pine, especially those in the picture tht have not grown as fast as the others. Normally a red pine plantation has trees with more uniform growth. And some are not particularly straight, something I see more often with Scots pine.

Where in Ohio are these? These are trees that do well in more northerly areas or in the mountains. Perhaps if they are in central or southern Ohio they are too far out of their best natural range. Or perhaps the soil is poor. In any case, they may be worth saving, but these look much weaker than the red pine groves I have worked in.

--Spruce

Unless there is some Pinus nigra in there, that could be

Resin

Spruce & Resin,
Most are red pine. There are some austrian and a few white pine, but not shown in this picture. Tomorrow I'll go out and take more pics of the whole area so you'll know exactly what I'm up against. I'm in Northern Ohio, zone 5.

Ken,
OH, OK...that makes sense. Thanks for the heads up.

I need to post this here, and in another topic in conifers, and I will also set up a seperate topic so everyone has a better chance of seeing it.

When thinning pines and other conifers as well, it is necessary to protect against annosus root rot which can devestate a plnatation of thinned pines. What I do is treat the cut stumps of all the pine family trees--in my case, pines and spruces--with borax.

--Spruce

Here is a link that might be useful: Annosus root rot--USDA Forest Service

This sounds really dumb but bear with me. The limbs are self pruning due to lack of light right? The same thing is happening with our Norway Spruce plantation. If that is the case and the trees "reached for the light" as all trees do when close together and planted at the same time, what will pruning the dead limbs do? I would assume all the live growth is at the very top (in the light) and pruning the dead limbs would only speed up what would naturally happen.(self pruning due to lack of light). How would that affect the crown of the tree or make it "more beautiful"? It seems like it would stay the same. I've always wondered if this is a good thing for the health of trees or if it more an aesthetic deal. Again sorry for being so naive on this.

Ok, I got out and took some pics today for you to see these trees of mine.
Wow, these trees look pretty good along the outer edges where they all get some sun.
I measured them,they are planted only 9' apart.
They are mostly red pine, a few are austrian and white pine.
What can be done?
Should I just leave them alone to do their thing?
Exactly what will they look like in another 10 years if nothing was done?
Considering that the bottom limbs die off for lack of sun....just how much growth would be on the top in 10 yrs?
Opinions and suggestions wanted!
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Hi Smallmouth,

"what will pruning the dead limbs do? I would assume all the live growth is at the very top (in the light) and pruning the dead limbs would only speed up what would naturally happen.(self pruning due to lack of light). How would that affect the crown of the tree or make it "more beautiful"? It seems like it would stay the same. I've always wondered if this is a good thing for the health of trees or if it more an aesthetic deal."

The main reason for pruning the dead branches is to improve the timber quality - new wood laid down on the trunk after pruning the dead branches is knot-free, whereas if they are left, they are gradually enclosed in the growing wood as dead knots (loose knots that can easily fall out of a plank, leaving a hole in the wood).

You're right, it doesn't affect the health of the tree at all.

Resin

Or aanother reason to prune off the lower limbs as they die is for aesthetic reasons.

Years ago foresters directing the forestry incentive programs recommended pruning off the lower dead limbs of pine trees. But now that recommendation is, at least for the most part, dropped. I think this is because the cost/benefit ratio is poor.

I prune just because it makes the trees look better, and I enjoy working in the woods. These limbs die as they become shaded, but will persist on the trees for many years. Just low long depends on the kind of pine.

--Spruce

It looks to me like something fairly good could be done with these pines. My question is who would do the work? If you could do it yourself, which would mean having some good chainsaw experience, I can give you detailed instructions and some technical hints about how to solve one or two specific problems you will encounter.

If you can't do this work yourself, contact your local forest service and/or find a good consulting forester. these may be some chance that you could hire someone to do the work under the supervision of a forester.

Basically what I am talking about is thinning out these trees, leaving the best for further growth. And then as you would like for aesthetic purposes, prune at least some of them.

And just for your information--although they are somewhat too crowded now, they were planted properly with the proper spacing for this kind of plantation.

--Spruce

Thanks for the info resin and spruce. Wasn't thinking of timber value terms.

Well, after weighing all of the pros and cons
we've decided to just remove the dead branches,
drag out the chipper and use the wood chips for
my hosta beds.
Thanks for all your opinions and suggestions.