i would stay away from willow or poplar ... fast growing.. fast to develop problems. fast to shed major portions of the tree ... fast to die..

first a few questions ...

where are you ... a little more specific than MO ...

what zone..

what soil ...

how much sun ...

any issue of snow load or storms [some weird tornado alley] ..

the bottom line.. fast growing will end up being your shortest investment... if you plan in being there in 10 years ... half the lombardi MIGHT be dead ...

and NEVER.... plant all of one kind ... diversity rule, in case some 7th plague rolls through the area ...

also .. dont think linear .... a small group of plants around the patio .. will do more ... faster.. to give you a private space.. rather than waiting 30 years for tree to grow at the other end of the property ... your solution may not be at the far end of your property ..

and keep in mind.. investing heavily in LARGE stock.. does not necessarily mean they will grow taller faster.. the transplant might retard there growth ...

ken

My first thought is Green Giants. You could plant two rows offset, 8' apart. If you have good soil, three feet per year, and you will have your screen in just a few years. If you can get them 4' tall or better, you can save a bit of time. I bought 4 1/2 footers and they grew three feet the first year, and the next two just a bit better. They get established very fast.

--Spruce

Thanks so much Ken and Spruce! Ken, we live in Kansas City. Our soil is rich. It is the southern portion of the lot line and would receive a fair amount of sunshine. Problem is we get a lot of cloudy days and VERY cold in the winter. Wind is very high here too.

Spruce, I like the sound of the Green Giants! They are very pretty. Does anyone know about what we would pay for one about 4.5-5 feet tall? And does anyone have any suggestions for buying in bulk for a bigger discount?

2' to 3' Green Giants would probably be just as large if not larger than 4.5' to 5' trees in just a few years! 4.5' to 5' aren't too big, but there's no long-term advantage and the cost can be quite a bit more. If pot-grown, the larger trees will either have a much larger rootball or they will be potbound. When happy, these trees really grow quickly! Also, if you do go with this option and have the room, do two rows staggered as Spruce suggested and space the trees out a bit.

IÂll throw out a few moreÂPlease check with some locals to make sure they will work for you. Probably all of these would like additional moisture in the summer. Some will require it. If you want these to grow fast I would plan on mulching and running a soaker hose under the mulch.

Cyptomeria japonica  Japanese cedar, Evergreen, probably 2-3ft per year.

X Cupressocyparis leylandii  Leyland cypress, plant only 1-3 please. They grow very fast. 3-4ft per year and they are evergreen. They do have some problems with diseases. If they are in an open sunny area and there is only a couple the problems should be minimized. Check for hardiness.

Pinus strobus  White pine, evergreen, probably 2-3ft per year. Very beautiful tree.

Metasequoia glyptostroboides  Dawn redwood, a conifer but deciduous. They have a lot of small close spaced stems and will give some winter privacy. Grow very fast, 3-4ft per year and have good rusty red fall color.

Quercus palustris  Pin oak, fairly fast for an oak. Probably 2ft plus per year. Good fall color and the leaves hang on most of the winter so they will give additional privacy. However, the leaves do turn beige/brown so some people donÂt like it. There are about a million different oaks so there may be a better option for you in an oak.

Picea abies  Norway spruce, evergreen 2-3ft per year. Dark green. Nice tree. Think classic Christmas tree.

Liriodendron tulipifera  Tulip poplar or Tulip tree, deciduous. 3ft per year. Big leaves turn yellow/gold in fall. Very nice tree.

I am with Ken on this. Mix it up. A long hedge of one tree is boring and they will never match anyway. One or two will die leaving holes, etc. Get a mix of spruce, pine, arborvitae and deciduous and enjoy.

Cinna:

I am a big fan of Norway spruce, I love it as much as any tree, but for you, I think you want something that will give you a good screen faster. Norway spruce are relatively fast growing, but to get them to screen as high as 30 feet, you will need about 20 to 25 years. Also, NS and some other good screen trees are broader than the Green Giants, so you need more space. A double row of NS would use up about 30 feet of your yard, the Green Giants half that. And the Green giants will give you a denser screen, which might be nice if your neighbors might be tempted to look down through a less dense screen into your yard. I recommend NS every chance I get--I just don't think this is a good chance for me to do that.

The Leyland Cypress to me are shapeless monsters. And they are broader than the Green Giants. But the Leylands grow as fast as anything I have seen and will provide a very dense screen.

I am also big on variety, usually not recommending a line of clones, but this time I think it is OK--you can plant other things in front of the screen if you want to break up the uniform visual effect.

The "big box" stores often carry GG's for rather low prices--I got some at Wallmart last year and can't remember the price, but it was very low. And, surprize, surprize, the quality of the Wallmart GG's was the best I have ever seen, even at full priced nurseries--good shape and strong, not pot bound root systems--first class! See what everyone has and choose what looks good. Just get the size that is available at the best price.

If you want to really save a lot of money, but not time, Musser Forests sells bareroot 10 to 18" babies for $210.50 per hundred, or $80 per 25.

But, you may have a problem--GG's need a lot of sun. I would guess at least half a day of "full sun." If one part of the line has less than that, they will grow more slowly and may not be quite so sense.

--Spruce

i got my 4 inch GGiants from botanyshop.com .. link below ...

as i said.. and noted by others.. the biggest wont necessarily grow the fastest ... smaller plants get ESTABLISHED faster and start growing faster .. than larger stock ...

and do be sure to MIX IT UP ....

gg are nice green with a bronzy winter coloration ... add something blue.. and maybe yellow .... there are plenty of golden or variegated thuja for mixing and matching ...

all handle my icy cold 5.. none should be bothered by your z6

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

That's funny Spruce.... my first thought was Norway Spruce for once!

I'd go for Norway spaced 12 feet apart. Get some bulky starts from Treehaven Evergreen Nursery. His name is Don and you may wish to call him instead of emailing. At any rate I'm sure he'll have 3 foot norways or bulky son-of a guns. And you use a root dip gel at planting. Ask him about that stuff.

Maybe in front of all those you could plant a thick and vigorous grove of Betula platyphylla 'Japonica' with dappled amounts of Acer griseum - Heritage Seedlings

Dax

Invest in hoses all the out there, then soaker hoses to go around the trees to allow easy soakings at planting and throughout their first few hot dry summers.
So often you see hedges turn brown in their first few years during drought.

you said: and would receive a fair amount of sunshine.

that still doesnt really mean much in regard to figuring just how fast anything will grow .... to grow to peak performance... most conifers require full sun ...

you might want to research zone appropriate pines also ... pinus strobus, if appropriate.. can grow up to 5 feet per year .... there has to be some pine for your zone that will scoff at your zone.. and grow like a weed ...

your local county soil conservation district offer small plants at great bargain prices .... and the order forms should be out now .... google your county/state plus soil conservation.. and call the local office.. and see if they can offer any LOCAL advice .... do NOT wait until spring to talk with them ... its a federal program.. may as well use some of that money you send away ....

and.. may we presume there arent any power lines that are going to interfere with the height these plants will need to achieve ... no fair planting in a utility easement .... and then complaining when they come through and massacre them all ...

ken

Dax:

Ha, ha, fooled you! But, on second thought maybe Norway spruce would be good, if Cinna can start with some larger sized trees, maybe 8 to 10 footers, and if Ken will let us get away with recommending them. For Ken, anything taller than one foot will take too long to get established! Ha! Ha!

But, if anything can get establihsed fast in larger sizes, it is Norway spruce--"been there, done that." And, as I have said many times in this forum, one of the "glories" of NS is the difference in appearance that one commonly--not absolutely always--sees from tree to tree. But there is always at least a little variation.

So, thanks Dax, I will take back what I said about NS. If Cinna can find some nice big ones that a competent nursery can come and plant for him/her, and they are not too expensive, he/she should get them. If the soil is good, they are properly planted and mulched, and for the first 3 or 4 years, at least, watered during dry spells (the first year don't let them dry our much at all), there should be good growth the first or second year after planting, and normal growth by the third. And NS can grow very well with just a bit of shade, if part of the line has some sun obstruction for part of the day.

--Spruce

Thank you all very much for your input! It was very kind of all of you to take the time to write all of this...wow! Well, we have basically decided that, yes, you guys are right about linear is boring. So, that being said, we are going to "diversify" and spice it up a little. I agree, the Norway Spruces are just gorgeous! We moved from Colorado and we really do miss all of the CO blue spruces that are just so abundant. A little, or NOT so little, memory of Colorado wouldn't be a bad thing. It would be so fun to decorate at Christmas too! So, thanks to you all for the web site postings too. I am all new to this sort of thing so I just hope I don't kill everything when I go to plant it. Do you guys and girls think that root stimulator would be a great way to start too? Or is it nourished enough from the tree being in the 5-gallon container? Also, sorry but need clarification on the "potbound" jargon. Does this mean that all plants and trees coming from a pot are potbound? How about the GGs you got Spruce from Wal-Mart? You said that they were great. And so they came in a pot, yes? Well, how can I judge this? Thanks for any and all help!!

Cinna:

As for being pot-bound--it depends on how long a tree has been in the pot. Also, to be honest, I am not sure how much of a problem it is if a tree is to some degree pot bound. It may depend on the species of tree somewhat. It is my belief, that the real problem comes when an encircling root is high enough, or in a position that it will eventually constrict or "girdle" the trunk of the tree--the portion of the tree at or above the root flare. Tangled and encircling roots below that point, at least with the species of trees I am familiar with, will just graft over each other.

With Norway spruce, I can say from experience, being pot-bound is a problem only because it will slow the growth somewhat. But with Norway spruce I know the tangled and circling roots will simply graft over each other and a pot bound tree will eventually grow like one that was not pot bound. I bought a very tall 12 foot one a three years ago that was discounted because it was in its box for several years sitting in the nursery. Where there was supposed to be soil, there was nothing but a mass of roots that couldn't be untangled. So I planted it as it was. It was very weakened from being in that box for so long, and for the first two years the growth was stunted, but it is now doing fine.

But if you buy a tree in a pot, and see enclicling roots, try to untangle them a bit, cutting a few roots here and there as needed to free up others. Cut any and all that are circling at the top of the pot--they could girdle the trunk. Then dig a big hole, much wider than the original pot size and spread at least some of the roots out as much as possible. Then don't worry--your trees will do just fine.

Also, trees that have a mass of roots that grew in a pot, must be watered very carefully. The little soil that is around or in the root mass will hold almost no water, so these trees can dry our very badly is just a day or so in hot weather, and it can take three years, maybe four, before enough roots get far enough into the soil to do well on their own during dry spells. But, the bottom line with NS, at least, is that they are amazingly resiliant if given good care while they recover from whatever abuse they have suffered while cramped up in a pot.

--Spruce

Cinna, in potted stock, look for a tight mesh of roots encircling the pot periphery. For good long term results, these need to be cut and straightened out. The best orientation for roots is to be growing straight out away from trunk. Some recent studies have shown that completely "shaving" the outer inch or so of roots off the rootball at planting can result in a much more properly oriented root system.........and with no slow-down in plant establishment. One way to achieve this is to remove plant from pot as per usual, set in ground at proper depth (With rootflare at or just above grade) and then, with sharp spade or shovel, cut down through this outer edge of root mass entirely around rootball. The cut root material need not be removed from planting hole. It will cause no troubles.

+oM

The most common question I get in the nursery from customers is just this question of screening. Seems nobody wants to look at nobody...

In the northeastern Kansas/ metropolitan Kansas City area landscapers have turned to spruces as an alternative screening plant. I have some reservations about this. We don't see the rapid growth rate here that may be expected in more clement areas. Norways will give you maybe 6-8" a year, average, and one good hot midwest summer - like summer of 2000 - will kill mature trees. Colorados are a little quicker, maybe a foot a year on average, but they aren't all that happy here, either.

I won't tell you that you cant grow a nice specimen of either one here - just that it is not a wise choice for a line of property screening.

Better choices? Certainly the green giants, though we have yet to see how they hold up to our severe ice storms. They simply have not yet been planted widely enough, or for a long enough time, for anyone to say.

There are other good narrow upright arborvitae that do well for us - until the ice hits!

White pines are certainly satisfactory, though they will suck up a lot of yard space.

Upright junipers do real well for us- you see the native species growing wild in every bit of neglected soil. Very tough. Of course, you need to monitor yearly for bagworms.

Vanderwolf pines are showing up more and more, but lord they are pricey. You can spend a big wad of money on 10 or so of those.

I suggest you talk to some local nursery people, find out what's available, see what your budget can afford. Right now, a nurseryman would be real happy to see you, probably offer you a cup of coffee and some doughnuts in the break room!

I will tell you what I tell all my customers - you want a perfect solution, build a fence. Otherwise, see what you like the looks of, what you can afford, and be aware of the inherent drawbacks of any plant choice that you make.

brian