Gee Ken...thanks for putting the pressure on!

Lets start with a dandy "Frost Date Selector" linked below that tells us the average date of the first and last frost in your area. This can explain a lot in regards to the length of our respective growing seasons.

Lodi, CA
Last frost 3/31
First frost 11/2

Now lets look at your average minimum fall temps at: http://www.met.utah.edu/jhorel/html/wx/climate/mintemp.html
I'll have to use Stockton, with:

Average minimumm Lodi temps in the fall:
Sept 57.5F
Oct 50.8F
Nov 42.7F

Average maximum temps can be found at http://www.met.utah.edu/jhorel/html/wx/climate/maxtemp.html

Average maximum Lodi temps in the fall:
Sept 87.9
Oct 78.3
Nov 63.4

Many things have a second flush of growth here in the fall because our growing season allows it.

Your turn!

Barbara

Here is a link that might be useful: Frost Date Selector

If you are talking late October, early November then the only thing that grows around here is my longing for ice fishing. In late summer there can be lammas growth, particularly on Spruces and Scott's pine.

tj

Lammas growth on Picea sitchensis, late September.

{{gwi:644401}}

Resin

Here's a tip to get climate info for your area:

1.) Go to http://www.weather.com

2.) Put in your zip code in the little search window at the top of the page. Click "Search" and it will display today's weather forecast for your area.

3.) Near the top of the page is a thin orange bar with some option buttons. Go all the way to the right and click "Month". A calendar will be displayed with the temps for the month.

4.) At the bottom of this little calendar is a button called "Averages". Click this button and it will display a graph for your area with the average min and max temps by month for a year, as well as the average rainfall for each month.

Regards,

K4

I don't know if any of my conifers grow in 'fall', but if fall is defined as the period of time after September 17th, then quite a few plants in my gardens do grow. Gaillardias, Cone flowers, Japanese maples and others all put out additional growth for me in this time period with most ceasing by about mid-November and everything dying back/stopped by mid-December. Again, it's a climate thing. There are places where the growing season is only a few months, June, July, August, and others where it's year round.

When you talk about "growth" are you talking about top growth, root growth, or both? I'm thinking the growth period for roots will be much different than for the plant tops. But both types of growth are essential for healthy plants.

Also, if a plant is photosynthysizing is that considered "growth"? I know many conifers photosynthesize nearly all year. Is the fact that they are storing food considered part of "growth", or is pushing out new foliage the only definition?

I've read somewhere that roots will grow if the soil temp is above 40 degrees F (4 degrees C). I don't know if this is really true, but I would imagine its close. So how long does it take the soil temp to get below 40 degrees? From what I can tell, a frost won't do it - it takes a lonnggg period of cold temps to penetrate down to the root level. So in an area like mine with relatively few periods when the ground is actually frozen, the question would be "do the plants EVER really stop growing?" Thoughts from the scientists among us would be helpful about now...

K4

My most vigorous Longleaf & Loblolly pines grow well into late September, tho slowly. One Longleaf added 3" from early to late Sept this past season.

I know Ken, you can't grow these. You might grow Loblolly x Pitch pine, which grows pretty late.

i get some of that lammas growth.. once in a while...

i think it tends to be injured during winter.. as i suspect i never really hardens off properly ...

i guess i was just surprised.. what barb said ... they go into slo-mo dormant type growth in the heat of summer.. and throw out a whole new growth cycle in fall ...

it doesnt surprise me that CA had such a pattern .. or any of the higher zones ...

i just never contemplated such ...

e.g. .. my pungens will bud.. elongate.. and by about july ... thats it for the year .... same for pine .... never really studied thuja close enough to see growth.. i just know they get bigger each year ... and sporadically .. that lammas growth ... on various type ....

i guess she said.. the EXPECTED fall growth.. and i just never EXPECT any such thing..

go figure..

ken

The climate zones are so different it's shocking. Particularly of interest to me is that in just a few hundred miles, things can be vastly different.

I've 'felt' and seen a few Minnesota winters, so I know what that's all about. I've also been in San Fransisco in Winter where it was warmer then Spring.

My current climate is all about 'mild'. We don't get severe summers, don't get severe winters and don't have drastic temperature changes during the day. Our maximum daily 'flux' between highs and lows is usually around 25. I know some places - particularly South-West desert areas can swing 60, 70 degrees or more in 12 hours. Surely it takes some very hardened plants to handle that.

Eastern Red Cedar down here are growing til Nov., if we get rain. No rain = no growth in fall as we're usually dry from summer.
They usually resume growth around end of Feb.
Think my Arizona Cypress do the same but I'd have to check my records to be sure.
Also Shumard Oak and Bur Oak will grow into October if watered.

What grows in fall in my Zone 5b?

Absolutely nothing...everything has peaked and in decline preparing for the seasonal change.

Dave

i think will hit the nail, when he said:

The climate zones are so different it's shocking.

i am so zone-aphobic ... i just didnt think about how they differ .. beyond minimal temps ... and their affect on the actual growth patterns of the plants therein ...

i have lived my whole life in z5 .... no other hands on experience .... barb just startled me with her thought ....

god ... spring better come quick.. or i will be contemplating my navel ...

ken