Mature citrus trees not posting

11 years ago

My parents live in Palm Desert, CA and have had 2 Citrus trees planted in July 2003. One is a grapefruit tree and the other an orange and are supposedly dwarf trees. In 2007 (possibly) I planted a lime or meyer lemon (forget which now) that was in a container and from what I understood was already a few years old and had produced some small fruits even in the cold damp clime of coastal very northwestern California.

Throughout the years the trees have only produced a few fruit. One year the trees had whiteflies and was treated. I think they came about because I had sprayed them with water one hot summer day and then realized my mistake as I wathced the leaves get steam cooked. =(

I visit 3-4 times a year and will always go out and feed them. One year using doctor earth citrus dry mix. I also have fed them Dr Earth 3-3-3, liquid bonemeal, OG Grow 16-0-1(liquid) . They get miracle grow feed by dad every so often but want them to not use it. In November 2012 I mixed up a good feed; Microbe brew, root drench, compost tea, og grow and even a bit of kelp meal.

My dad is a bit of a heavy pruner. Have you every gone to get your hair cut for a trim and they practically buzz everything off? Yeah thats my dad's pruning style. So I told him this year DO NOT TOUCH IT! lol.

The leaves are discolored and the grapefruit has these odd reddish spots on some of the leaves. I don't see any leafminer damage or spider mite damage. No signs of aphids, caterpillars, or other bugs I am familiar with.

I haven't been here to see it but mom and dad say that every year there are flowers, sometimes a whole bunch! There are definitely enough citrus trees in the area for wind pollination. In fact the neighbor behind them has a hundred fruits on it and the neighbor to the sides have some. When the wind picks up the blossoms get all blown off. Why doesnt this happen to the neighbors? I suggested a harvest net put over the trees during this time but is something that hasn't been done. I read somewhere that bloosoms wont stay on if there is P deficiency so that was the reasoning behind the liquid bonemeal. Maybe it wasnt put at the right time though.

Sorry for the lengthy description but I just want to get as much info out. Any suggestions on what to do? I will include plenty of pictures below.

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Comments (10)

raphen
Original Author
11 years ago
Orange tree leaf.
raphen
Original Author
11 years ago
orange tree
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johnmerr
11 years ago
You are growing them basically in sand in Palm Springs; and they appear to be seriously underfed, and lacking some minor elements. I don't know about the others, but Meyer lemons need a ratio of 3.-1-2. and lots of it. My mature fruiting Meyers get 3 pounds per year of 18-6-12 with 2% each of CA and MG and 1% Zn and Iron. I also give them a shot of chelated minerals every July mostly as an insurance policy.
raphen
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks for the quick advice Johnmerr. I think I will get some good earthworm castings and give the top a good fill. I have always pointed to the sandy loose soil, maybe when they were planted they didn't fill with any potting.
Heres a picture of the funky red leaf thats on the grapefruit tree.
johnmerr
11 years ago
Looks like a fungus to me; I am not expert in such things. I treat my trees twice per year with Bayer Silvacur and Bayer Leverage (fungicide and imidacloprid respectively); they are tank mixable and work topically and then enter the plant to work as systemic. With that treatment I rarely have any insect or fungal problems with my 16,000 Meyer trees. A bit of advice... organics, including worm castings are quite low in NPK; I like them, and like cow manure I use them; but unless you put about 2 feet of it on each tree, you will not meet the nutrient requirements of the Meyer. Again... as most people here know, I am a one trick pony; so my advice applies primarily to Meyers; but is not too far off the mark for other citrus.
meyermike_1micha
11 years ago
John....If I may..?

I am wondering if the chemical products you use are harmful to beneficial pests and to your health if consumed from treated fruit? Now these are used for fungus right?

What do you use for pest's? Is the stuff you use organic, oils, or chemicals?

Do these products enter the plant systemically and stay in the fruit and leaves? I know there is product from Bayer that is used here that many can't use on fruiting trees but instead use oils or natural products.
Does it say if it is safe for indoor plants?

If it's safe, then I would love to get my hands on that stuff.
Thanks a bunch.

Mike

This post was edited by meyermike_1micha on Fri, Feb 22, 13 at 8:25
skinn30a
11 years ago
I grow Citrus on straight sand and IÃ¢ÂÂve learned that you have to adjust your fertilizer applications to accommodate leaching. By the looks of your trees, they need more food, more often. The 10 year old trees should be getting 11lbs of 8-8-8 or 13-13-13 per year, divided into 4 applications of 2.75lbs (2 x 8oz cups is approximately 1lb.) through the growing season. My 1st application goes down March 1 and my last is Sept 1. Increase the rate of fertilizer 1 - 1ÃÂ½ lb of 8-8-8 or 13-13-13 per year through the 12th year or max of 18lbs of fertilizer per year. Broadcast the fertilizer beyond the spread of the limbs where most of the feeder roots occur a good practice is to put your left shoulder near the outer branches and hold the can of fertilizer in your right hand. You can simply walk around the tree and evenly spread the fertilizer in a 12- to 18-inch band on the outer branches of the tree. This is the foundation of your feeding schedule.

Supplement to this:

i) A small amount of nitrogen fertilizer (ÃÂ¼ pound of Ammonium Nitrate or Ammonium Sulfate/year/age of tree or ÃÂ½ pound of Calcium Nitrate/year/age of tree) should be applied to bearing trees (trees 4 years and older) in late May or June. The rate of fertilizer is increased each year until the tree is 12 years old. This helps the tree make adequate vegetative growth and appropriate sized fruit. The additional nitrogen also will encourage the tree to set a crop the following year.

ii) A micro-nutrient foliar spray once every 6 weeks. I like Keyplex HG (http://keyplexdirect.3dcartstores.com/KeyPlex-Citrus-HG--32oz-_p_91.html#C3). You can tone it down to 2oz/gallon.

iii) An application of WEAK liquid fertilizer (200ppm) in between granular applications. I like JackÃ¢ÂÂs 25-5-15HP (http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jack-s-Professional/Jack-s-Pro/General-Purpose-Formulas/25-5-15-High-Performance.html)

As far as pest cpontroll goes, IÃ¢ÂÂve had luck with:

i) Macho 2.0 (http://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/labels/Macho_2.0FL.pdf )
Application: 1/8oz/10oz water, applied to base of tree at start of 2nd flush

ii) Kocide 3000 (http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a35804ce82d.pdf )
Application: pre bloom, petal fall, & each flush @ the following rate:
5gal 3gal 1gal
(tbsp) (tsp) (tsp)
6 9 3

iii) Greenlight Spinosad (http://www.amazon.com/Green-Light-Organic-Control-Spinosad/dp/B000BO8XZO )
Application: 2oz/Gallon H20 + 1Oz Hort Oil as foliar spray every 7 to 14 days after petal fall.

This is what works for me in sand.

Best,

Skinn30a
johnmerr
11 years ago
Mike

Imidacloprid is the insecticide; Bayer sells a home version in the US. Imidacloprid is one of the new nicotine based products and is quite harmless; but don't take my word as gospel, some people have very bad things to say about it, albeit unproven. It only kills leaf chewing/sucking critters, and leaves most of the beneficials alone; it was highly recommended to me by the entomology gurus at Texas A&M citrus center. The other, Silvacur is the fungicide; and I don't know if it is available in US; you can Google it, or check Bayer Crop Science.
raphen
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks guys! I have a good plan of attack now. Definetly won't be using the bayer product, since I don't even like to say or even read that name I will be looking for an alternative. Also some of the suggested brands might not be available here in California.

Will be doing some mulching and dry feeding. They will get on a regular light liquid feed schedule too. Mostly compost tea type stuff and a good regiment of foliar feeding (at night of course!).

Still wondering what the red spot is. Hopefully a guru botanist will be posting soon.

I will also post as they progress a long. Also glad no one has called me out on my typo header "posting" =p Thanks again!
hoosierquilt USDA 10A Sunset 23 Vista CA
11 years ago
Wow. Horrifically underfertilized. Skinn has given you good fertilizing recommendations. Do NOT prune citrus. Ever. Only if you get a big water sprout. Citrus are tip bearers, so when they are pruned, you're pruning off all the future fruit! You'll never get any fruit if your well-meaning dad continues to prune your trees :-) Your trees are in need of both macros (NPK) as well as micros (Magnesium, Manganese, Iron, Calcium, etc.) You can try organic, but you're going to need very large and frequent amounts due to being in sand. Remember, inorganic fertilizers are converted in the soil to organic compounds your trees are able to absorb. Imidacloprid will not treat anything fungal. I would not worry about the spots right now. Let's get your trees fertilized, and fertilized well. The spots do look fungal, due to the roundness of the spots. Almost looks like Anthracnose to me, but that would be unusual in your arid climate. If you're concerned, you can spray with a copper solution for fungal infections.

Patty S.

Mature citrus trees not posting

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Mature citrus trees not posting

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