It sounds ok to me. This time of year do not expect much action. Everything in a container will need to be fed something as nutrients leave with the irrigation water through the drain hole. Being root bound would slow the growth but that is hardly possible in this short a time. When the temperature warms in the spring, new growth should be apparent. Al

I've noticed that with my S. clevelandii, planted 2 years ago (in the ground, though, not in a pot), it was VERY slow to put out any new growth. It's in full sun, gets all of the conditions it prefers, but I had to wait until this year to see it double in size. It hasn't flowered yet, either, but I'm obviously a patient person. :)

Brenda

This is interesting as I just planted S. clevelandii in my little native patch. I'll have to wait and see what happens...

I try every year and never have gotten S. clevelandii to root, only rot. Is there some trick? I can always successfully root others.

Thanks for your replies. I was at the nursery today and looked at the S. clevelandii for sale and they sure are a lot greener than mine. Retail sellers always confuse me because they have so many thngs in bloom and with hothouse growth that can't be replicated so easily at home.

I bought an additional one because I wanted another for a different location. I'll wait until after Spring to see what S. clevelandii does in pots for me here in SB. Thanks again, Kristine

There are different cultivars of S. clevelandii. Some have greener leaves than others.

The time of growth for most natives is in winter-early spring so you should not expect much growth this time of year which is typically the dormant season for many natives.

wanda

Westelle, I forgot to add that it might be the time that you are trying to root your cuttings. I think Feb.-March would be a good time when they are in active growth and can handle more water.

wanda

I sympathize with you: I have a salvia clevelandii that has languished for three years. It hasn't grown, and just seems to cling to life.

Some California natives fail because they depend on the fungi in their native soil to get established and thrive, so I've been wondering if that is my plant's problem (and maybe yours?)

More and more nurseries are adding these native fungi (mycorrhizae) to their soil to be sure that the plants do well. I think Monrovia does; and Las Pilitas...I dont'know whether to just chuck mine and start over or what.

I grow my S. clevelandii in my crappy clay soil and never fertilize it and it seems to like it. Maybe the problem is too much nitrogen.

Ruby138, unless you are living in a newly constructed home (contractors scrape off the living part of the soil) or your soil has been nuked to death with chemicals, mycorrhizae should be naturally present in the soil.
You can purchase mycorrhizae or products (EB Stone soils and fertilizers and others) that contain mychorrhizae.

The fungi is actually a parasite, but it works to the benefit of both the plant and itself (symbiotic relationship). They feed off the plants energy, but in return help the plant to develop larger and stronger roots so it can seek more nutrients.

wanda

Average garden soils will contain vegetative matter and fungi, unless as Wanda mentioned the top soil has been removed. Container soil is often devoid of any fungi and will benefit from added commercially available mychorrizhal fungi or the addition of compost or compost tea containing many beneficial fungi. Al

Mine is huge, 5' tall and 8' wide. I can't see it being happy in a pot. The hummingbirds love it.

Thank you, Wanda and Al.

Hoovb: spill it, my friend. What sun, soil, origins does your salvia have? It sounds glorious.

I have to chime in with HoovB; the real answer to to put your salvia into the ground. With good rain this season you ought to see excellent growth next spring. Give it a couple of years or less in the ground and watch out. They thrive on little water in summer once they are established. From a friend I got some Indigo spires, Mexican Sage and salvia chiapensis divisions. They are full size in 2 years. I also have Allen Chickering (I think) and Hotlips. They all like a medium pruning in July or August. This will give you great fall bloom. Then they take a nap til spring.

Peachie took the words right out of my mouth!

Plant that baby in the ground and ignore it. It does need excellent drainage (as in GRIT) and full sun.

The most important thing is, natives like Clevelandii and many other salvias put down a long tap root to find water in our naturally dry climate. They're not bred (like hot house plants) to be transplanted to ever larger pots till they're sold.

This is the perfect time of year to plant most any perennial, especially of this ilk. Their hormones are telling them to put down lots of roots over winter, then explode with bloom and foliage in spring. Most impulse gardeners can't resist all that color in spring, and do their planting then. They get immediate flowers, but a feeble root system.

But THIS has me baffled:

I design native gardens for a living, and am crazy busy right now (as I should be). I just had to rip out several old woody salvias (including Clevelandii) that had grown like weeds. (I know, because I cut them back hard last fall.)

Where they're all planted is a natural alluvial plain, with the richest soil around, ideal for African Violets! I'd think they'd hate it, not grow double size.

Anyone?

Plants that do well in poor growing conditions usually do so because the poor conditions limits the competition. Given a good rich soil they will do even better, especially if they have the benefit of a willing gardener to weed out the competition. Al

Dear Calistoga,

Thank you for a true epiphany!

I have grown up next to a Botanic Garden that grows ONLY southwest natives, and have been working on designing gardens with drought-tolerant plants that don't look thorny and scruffy.

I've learned that too much water or fertilizer will do in a desert plant, so I plant them high, water them deeply and infrequently, and cut them back hard in winter. No food.

It has never occurred to me that the deprivation climate merely supresses competition.

But how much rich soil (and frequent watering) can you give a spartan plant before it chokes?

I'd still err on the side of sparce feeding and water. Overfeeding roses and citrus, for example, causes unnaturally fast and tender new growth, which attracts insects, which require pesticides, etc.

I think Dow Chemical has deceived us into believing that we need their products to grow a healthy garden. But I'm starting to rant....

You've given me something to think about. Thanks.

"Feed the soil, not the plant."

I also believe in building the soil. No fertilizer of any kind is used on my garden soil. Soil should be "rich" in soil life such as espoused by proponents of the "soil food web". Chemical fertilizers do feed the plant and achieve immediate results, often including succulent new growth that is a magnet for plant pests, but it also is detrimental to life in the soil food web. For long term gardening success I prefer to return all vegetative matter removed from the garden back to the garden after composting. In my opinion it is impossible to create good garden soil in one year and I can understand a gardening professional pushed to show immediate results resorting to the use of chemicals. Al

I have several (maybe 10 or so) cleveland sage. They are planted with natives, in native soil, and thrive beautifully. When planted from a 1-gallon pot they grew to a HUGE size in less than a year. Those planted out in full sun, with little water, become a bit drought-stressed so I prune them quite hard. But, I have one in the garden close to the house that gets regular water. It has been blooming non-stop year round without any pruning. So, I too feel they need to be in the ground. You might try the cultivar "Winifred Gillman" in a pot. It is smaller and likes more water......

I have grown S. clevelandii Allen Chickering at the local park for 2 years. They are in clay soil with a bit of a slope, next to a large lake. They were planted in fall, and not watered at all. They have grown rapidly to full size (4' tall) in one season. Summer watering seems to cause them to die. They go dormant during summer, but perk up nicely once the rains come. And the fragrance is just divine.

Hi,
Wondering where everyone's source is (any online?) for winifred gilman. Having trouble obtaining this one.
Many Thanks for any information..........

Contact Las Pilitas or Tree of Life Nursery. I was at Las Pilitas/Escondido two days ago, and they didn't have any Winnies, but they'll have them eventually, since it's one of their most popular plants.

I find that a lot of California natives, including Salvia clevelandii, grow great in rich soil with water during the summer. The downside, I understand, is that they may not live long in a 'garden' situation. In a wild site with far fewer nutrients, less water, and generally tougher conditions, most natives develop a strong symbiosis with mychorrizal fungi. I guess in a watered, fertilized garden they do not. As a result of this, or perhaps some other factors, they may not live long in a garden. My Salvia clevelandii were planted in fall in gallon pots and were 5 feet high by the next May and full of flowers. They are a bit prone to stems breaking because they grow so large, but they certainly look nice and healthy. I don't know how long they'll live. Wild ones can live decades, I think. Mine are only about 2 or 3 years, but doing fine.

I had two fairly large ones that had become woody and unattractive. I cut them back and they both croaked. I don't think they do live long in a garden situation. Mine were about five years old. OK smell but otherwise nothing to scream about.

-Ron-

Mine did not flower for the first year I had it. It smelled glorious, and seemed quite happy. Now, finally, it is putting out fascinating blooms.

I'm not a native Californian, so forgive my ignorant question.

I should cut this plant back in the fall, right? It looks a bit floppy and unsupported.

Lisa, I'm not a native either, but much of my little garden is. You might want to look into a book on the maintenance and care of CA native gardens from the Metropolitan Water District. It's available from the Theodore Payne Foundation and probably CNPS.

I'm looking around for my copy, but I think they can be cut back by 1/3 in late fall, early winter. I've let mine go natural because its location is difficult for me to access (above retaining wall,) but I know it could have better form.

Here is a link that might be useful: Native Garden Care and Maintenance Book

lisascenic,
You can cut Salvia clevelandii back any time you want to. I usually try to do it in the fall because that is after it blooms and just before it starts to grow again, but I have cut back broken or floppy parts of the plant throughout the year and the plant regrew well.

I bought three S Clevelandii five years ago I think. Two died and one lived. The one that made it was planted smack dab next to a cacti hedge out at my fenceline.

Five years later I still have it and it's sorta leaned and clambered all over the cactus. It's about 6 X 6. It mostly gets ignored but gets a little water when the cactus starts looking sad. It's outlived the lavender I planted about the same time. Methinks, I should replace that with more S Clevelandii. I love the smell and the way the bloom spikes look even when it's done flowering. It has a rather scraggly rapscallion look. On rainy or foggy mornings the scent drifts into my bedroom window. Sometimes it perfumes the whole yard on damp nights.

It seems too unruly to grow in a pot.

In nature, Salvia clevelandii very frequently intertwines itself with other shrubs.

You need to be a bit careful when pruning S. clevelandii. I only prune back to the first big, green leaf-bundle on each main stem. If you prune past the last leaf-bundles you'll kill the plant.