I should have been paying more attention

16 years ago

to the forum, but I've been so busy with the Monarchs that I haven't had time to read a lot on here. I really don't know what I'm doing when it comes to raising anything besides Monarchs, but now I have to know what to do because I have Black Swallowtail cats. Yippee!! They're eating my rue and right now I have them on potted rue that's sitting in a big storage container with a screen on top. Are these like Monarchs and they will climb up and pupate on the screen? I thought I'd ask because I don't know if I should put anything else in with them besides the plants that they're eating. Also, do they eat about as long as a Monarch, say 9-12 days or so and then pupate? Is it best that I leave them outside on our back porch, which is where they are at right now? It's kind of late in the year, so will they emerge as butterflies this year yet or will they overwinter? I know I should keep them outside somewhere over the winter if that's the case; otherwise they'd emerge and there'd be nothing for them to eat.

Cathy

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Comments (16)

tdogmom
16 years ago
Oh boy! Swallowtails are whole 'nuther breed! ;p (that tongue is for when they stick out their osmeterium AND when they do their gut purge)

Okay, here's a few notes for ya.

1. BSTs will not do the J thing. They actually hang head UP and form a sling/harness thingy so it is sort of nice if therer are some sticks and things in there for them to make their slings on. Sometimes the pupae will be brownish and sometimes they will be greenish. They are definitely something from Alice in Wonderland-looking when all done!

2. Right before pupating, and you will definitely know, the caterpillar does this gut purging thing. It is quite, um, nasty. You will find this disgusting, mushy, slimey, yucky, diarrhea-like mess. Yep, you read that right! When you see this yucky stuff you know that gigantic cat-pit is ready to pupate. (I always get the tissues and wipe out the entire mess-reminds me of cleaning a nasty booty on a baby, if you know what I mean)

3. BSTs and other swallowtails are all on their own time clocks. I don't know about where you live but the swallowtails I've raised are just MOST unpredictable as far as when they will eclose. Although I live in Southern California so the ones I raise are Anise Swallowtails (our version of the BST, basically) I have had some that eat, poop, purge, pupate, then eclose all within oh, five or six weeks. Then, there are those that eat, poop, purge, pupate, then free-load for months on end (eight, nine, ten months) before deciding to *yawn* eclose. Same thing with the Giant Swallowtails and Pipevine Swallowtails (I even had a PVS that was in diapause for 14 months).

4. Osmeterium: these are these orange-red horn-like protuberances that the larvae will 'stick out' as a defense mechanism along with this obnoxious odour. Boy does it smell! After time though, I've found the cats sort of get used to you and your handling of them and they no longer 'stink you' when you feed and clean them. :)

They ARE loads of fun, though. I think the cool thing with the BSTs are the gorgeous changes in colour from early instar to later instar. (black and white to that green colour...OOOH!)

Have fun!
jmcat
16 years ago
They probably will use the netting if need be, but I would put some fair-diameter (more than 1/4" or 1/2" in diameter) sticks in for them at an angle (you probably know that they make a silk girdle for support, and they will pupate on anywhere from a horizontal surface to a vertical surface, but seem to like it more in between the two). As for how long they eat, somewhere around 2 weeks seems to be normal. As for overwintering, who knows? I gave some cats to a neighbor which pupated last week, and the chrysalides were still green (I've heard that the green ones never overwinter, but the brown ones can either overwinter or emerge at the normal time), so I don't know what will happen with yours. I'm also not that experienced with BSTs myself, as this is only the second year I've had them.
A peculiarity of BSTs (and I believe all swallowtails) is that prior to pupating, they purge, or empty the contents of their stomach. This means 2 things: 1, don't worry about the green liquid with lumps in it that you find on the cage bottom when your cats are getting big; and 2, that you should probably put paper towels or something in the bottom of the cage. If the BFs do happen to eclose in the middle of winter, you can feed them a nectar substitute made from 1 cup water and 1 TBSP sugar mixed together.
Happy BSTing (or whatever real word you feel like inserting here)!
-Jmcat
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jwink246
16 years ago
I have also found that they are much less active then Monarch cats. They seem to stay on the same branch of rue forever. They also seem to take much longer to pupate. I have put sticks in the cage as well as in the pot, but they have all chosen to use a branch on the rue. They also have not gone on the "walk" like Monarchs do.
Jennifer
mboston_gw
16 years ago
I have found that if I put in a stem of artifical flowers, they love to make their chryslis on it and "hide" among the flowers. I have had them make a chrysalis in June and eclose in Sept. (just happened this week for me). I have also had them make a chrysalis in late Aug and eclose in 2 weeks (also happened for me this week). I have also had them make a chrysalis in June and not eclose till the following April! So there is no rhyme or reason here. They are beauties, though and fun to watch them change their colors.
susanlynne48
16 years ago
Congratulations, Cathy! I know you've been wanting some BSTs to visit, and voila! They answered your plea.

I use wooden or bamboo shish kabob sticks. They are not large in diameter, and they work perfectly for me. I bought a huge bag of them (about 100) for like $1 at the Dollar Store - they may have been 50 cents, I can't remember, but really cheap. I like them because they are "clean". If you decide you want to move the sticks (after the BSTs have pupated), they are easy to prop up elsewhere, so they have plenty of room when they eclose.

Sometimes they pupate on the plant, but a lot of them pupate on the sticks, too. I say this because on my Rue, I've only had 2 caterpillars actually pupate on the plant - one BST and one GST.

In your area, you may have some that will overwinter. In that case, leave the sticks or plants they are on outside where it's cold (do you have a porch?). You don't want to bring them in and have them emerge in January - they will need to cold to remain in diapause, so they can emerge when nectar and food plants are plentiful next year.

We are getting much cooler nights and days in the 80s now here in Oklahoma (instead of the usual 90s and 100s). Are you cooling down up there in PA?

Susan
bernergrrl
16 years ago
Hi Cathy, I think we're pretty close zone-wise. The BSTs that I raised a couple of years ago overwintered. I kept them in the garage. If it got super-duper cold, I took them down to the basement. Sometimes in January we get those warmer days and it can get quite warm in the garage; in those cases, I put them in the fridge. I also put them in the fridge during the early part of spring--I waited till there were some plants blooming.

I brought 2 in this year; left the rest outside.
MissSherry
16 years ago
Cathy, for me, nothing is harder to raise than monarchs, so if you've successfully raised monarchs, BSTs will be a breeze!
They'll pupate on a variety of surfaces, the screen, the sides, things you add like artificial flowers - they're easy!
Most BSTs emerge quickly, but some overwinter, and my longest lived chrysalids have been BSTs - I had one that waited 15 months, I think it was, before it emerged!
MissSherry
crittergirl
16 years ago
I think we're in the same zone. I've been raising BSTs for a few years and in our climate, it's a guess right now as to whether they'll overwinter or not. It depends on how long they take to pupate and if we get an early change of seasons.

Most BSTs around here take between ten to twelve days to pupate. It helps if the environment they're in is in the mid 70 degree range. That seems to be the most comfortable for them. Any hotter and they get sluggish and take more time.

The butterflies should emerge in another ten to twelve days, but again, the more comfortable the temperature, the faster it will be (within reason).

I provide a mix of natural branches and cut dowels in my ten gallon aquarium, but I've found that they really prefer to get as high up as possible and most end up pupating on the screened top of the enclosure.

Good luck with your BSTs. They're rather sedate little critters when compared to Monarchs, so you shouldn't have much trouble raising them.
grouperman941
16 years ago
I would use popsicle sticks or sticks from the yard. If they use these, you can easily and safely move them around.
jmcat
16 years ago
It sounds to me like everyone here has cats with different "personalities"! Crittergirl, yours like the screen best; Susan, yours (or you) like thin sticks (skewers); Mboston, yours like fake flowers; and Jennifer, yours like the Rue, and sound like they don't wander much to pupate. Mine wander around for a while before settling down, and have never used the screen. Mine also don't seem to care a huge amount where they pupate, and will do so on the parsley, the plastic container, sticks, etc. (but never the screen).
What I ended up using for these cats (I have 1 that pupated this evening and 2, almost 3, in position) is some sticks lashed together so that I have a square base with 2 uprights and a stick across them. Then I lashed sticks onto the others to make a "roof" an about a 45 degree angle. So basically, I have the shape of a square cut in half from edge to edge, with it open except for the slanted side. Of course, I doubt anyone actually understood what I just said (sorry, but I don't know how to put it differently!). Anyway, all 4 (?) cats so far have gone into position on it (yay!).
-Jmcat
weed30 St. Louis
16 years ago
The coolest thing is to watch one pupate. Really an amazing thing. I had one that I knew was about to, so I took him to work. I had half a dozen people in my office in rapt silence watching, including the gruff engineering guy that at first teased me about bringing it to work. He stopped by later to see what it looked like after it hardened off, too ;)
jmcat
16 years ago
I know, Weed30! It is so neat to watch them jump (or wriggle) out of their skin! I guess the childhood of a BST must be scary. ;)
-Jmcat
caterwallin
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks so much, everyone. Sorry I didn't get to answer before. I wish I had more time to get on here. Summer is hectic with the Monarchs, the garden, the lawn, and any other project that I want to do and not be outside freezing while I'm doing it. The information all of you gave was very helpful. I did run into a problem and that is that somehow half of my cats disappeared. 7 out of 12 are among the missing and I don't think they're coming back because they've been missing for I don't know how many days now. Maybe I should have kept them separated. Do the big ones eat the little ones? I never had problems with that with the Monarchs. So now I'm down to 5. I hope I get eggs here yet, but it is getting kind of late. I did find an egg on my parsley and one of my rue. I just can't imagine getting dozens of eggs like others on here do. This female BST flies around like she's on a mission, looking for something, and I assume it's a place to lay eggs. She goes near the plants sometimes but doesn't land. Other time she lands but doesn't do anything. I don't know what her problem is, and I don't know why she waited until now to start laying eggs. Isn't it late for them to be laying in PA. Gosh, we'll get our first frost in another month. Oh, these will probably overwinter. I forgot. lol So I imagine they can lay awhile yet, right? How big do that cats get before they pupate? These two biggest ones I have are wandering around so much but don't seem to be getting anything done. I don't know if they're just out taking a stroll or what. I have them in a big plastic storage container (about 18" x 24") and put in bamboo sticks in case they want to pupate on those.
Cathy
tracey_nj6
16 years ago
Hehe; you were right Cathy; some great info here! I printed it all out and will use it (and update as necessary) as my BST bible, lol! I'm still freaking out about the possibility of overwintering them!!! I've got some nice tall "Marshmallow Skewers" that I'll be putting in my cage after work. I think if mine overwinter I'll actually be ok; I bring in a large potted canna, as well as a few other annuals. If they pupate on the skewers, I can simply stick them in the pot that'll end up in my garage or florida room.
jmcat
16 years ago
They get to be about 1 1/2" to 2" before pupating. You'll know when they are looking to pupate when they have purged and are moving faster than normal. If they are wandering around that much, they are probably looking for a spot to pupate. As far as I've seen, they rarely wander off the host plant unless they're preparing to pupate or (occasionally) molt.
-Jmcat
butterflymomok
16 years ago
Cathy,

I'm raising my third brood of BSTs for the summer. I had a lull, then all @#$@# broke loose and I'm finding eggs everywhere. I know I don't have enough food, as they are quite the eaters, so it's a good thing the Farmer's Market has fresh organic parsley on Saturday.

The best thing about BSTs is that some of them overwinter. I love to find them eclosed in early spring. It's like sending out a dove from the ark after being cooped up in a boat on the water a long time, and winter is my long cooped up time. The BST is a wonderful sign of spring.

Have a wonderful time with your BSTs.

Sandy

I should have been paying more attention

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