Soooooooooooo sorry your kitty died, Karen ! :-( There are good people / competent people in every profession.There are also people who should never be near anything living! If you have ANY doubts about what someone tells you, ask questions and DO NOT let them rush through their answers ! If you feel at all uncomfortable about a treatment suggestion (or attitude) WALK OUT and find someone you trust. This is your family member and they deserve the same respect and care as any one in need. I have found that many owners know what needs to be done in many circumstances and some times it does make my job a whole bunch easier because the major problem has been resolved, or nearly so. :-) You are right. No one knows their pet better than their owner. Oh sure we might know technical terminology like: "boo boo elbow" or other things but the bottom line comes down to ONLY YOU KNOW what is best for your pet! For example, chemo may be OK for some but not OK for others, no matter what the vet says and the decision you make for your beloved family member IS 100% right for you! My Mikey, my very best fuzzy friend ever, a grey kitty, had squamous cell carcinoma in his mouth. I knew as well as his oncologist, there was not really any hope to prolong Mikey's life. We did try 2 courses of chemo but most importantly his pain was under control. Mikey died 32 days after I found the bump on his gums that was smaller than the size of a BB pellet. One month later, Teeb, another kitty , had intermittent diarrhea. She went for endoscopy and we found intestinal lymphoma. Following numerous e mails and phone calls to human and vet oncologists it was determined that form of cancer was not painful. Chemo would buy her another 9 months of life. OK. We went for it and we got 22 more months with Teeb! I would say 95% of her days were good days. If she could wake up, get petted, eat and slug the other cats who got out of line, that was a good day! After all, Teeb was the kitty who was in charge of the rest of the kitty herd. :-) Bosco, the GSD, had a very guarded prognosis with his type of cancer. A very aggressive hemangiosarcoma of the spleen generally spreads and kills 80% of the patients within 1-2 months of the initial diagnosis. We were ~~VERY~~ fortunate to detect it early and remove the cancerous spleen in an almost bloodless operation (to decrease microscopic spread of the tumour cells throughout his doggy body) and we started chemo exactly 10 days after the surgery. He still had his stitches in his belly when he started his chemo! We **NEEDED** to try to prolong his life for a multitude of reasons. True, we are very fortunate that I am a vet and most things are either free (like x-rays, surgery, bloodwork) and the treatment was done at cost through the extraordinary generosity of the oncologist who cared for our Mikey and Teeb. Had I been a "real person" our cost for Bosco would have been just over $5000.00 total! WOW!! I don't know that we would have been able to afford that, even though the cost was spread out over 4 months. (That price does not include the follow-up met check radiographs and bloodwork after December 2005.) Thankfully all has turned out far better than anyone anticipated for Bosco. :-) This was the right decision for US. Had someone else been in the exact same circumstance and decided not to go further with surgery or chemo, that would be the exact right decision for them! Everyone is different and only YOU know and understand what your beloved family member can or should endure. They know only you and have complete trust in you caring and love for them. This trust can never be betrayed and don't let any one try to force you or your pet into anything with which you are uncomfortable! Mmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeee. (((BTW Semper .. the full colour photograph of the 3 pound cancerous tumour is available for your viewing when you request it. :\-) )))

The difference is the motivation in the breeding. Take Sue's example about her Persian above. How many of those Persian's were sold in that type of condition by that particular breeder? They were being sold over and over and over, it's a perpetuating situation. That breeder is intentionally breeding poor quality animals and probably has produced 5,000 suffering Persians. Our breeding quality has to be better than that. Think about if we had a large enough resource pool. There are many people that buy decent quality animals. Do you think if I didn't have a litter of great pups, I wouldn't give you one to get you going if you were helping the cause? The quality could only get better and better. As far as annual testing and such, how many reputable breeders still send out litters that are far from perfect? They continue to screen and take the dogs out of the program when they don't screen healthy. They've still created litters prior to this. I know someone that bought from a reputable breeder and they are spending $7000 on knee surgeries because the knees keep slipping out of place. We can't eliminate the genetic suffering these animals are faced with. The damage to the breeds were done long, long ago. We can work to diminish some of the suffering by stopping the Persian breeder from producing those 5,000 horribly suffering kittens, though. Sue and her boyfriend went into that store, young and naive and got taken advantage of. Doesn't that tick you off that the Persian breeder did this to her (and 5,000 more because everyone's just sitting back waiting for people to learn)? She probably suffered way more than the cat with her heartache over him. I don't think she should have learned all about the animal world that way. It's wrong. If she came to me I'd say, yup, you can have this kitty if you want it. However, know that this is the same kitty you're going to find everywhere (pet shop, internet, backyard breeder, etc. etc). Here's a listing of the problems Persians have and a cost list from the vet on repairs. Be prepared because once kitty goes home with you, you'll be so in love with it that you'll spend the money on the repairs. And here's a list of care a cat will need so you can better understand your daily responsibilities. Why don't you take a couple of days to think it over and I'll hold kitty for you. Give Pretty Persian's a call tonight, she's a reputable breeder and is anticipating your call and wants to be able to provide you even more information about the breed. You're going to get much better results this way. You're still going to have people take home my Persian because you can't change them all. At least they are fixed (alleviating a HUGE problem you still have on your hands) and came from a non-abusive situation. What happens to the puppy mill dog that needs a C-section? Breeding doesn't always go right but at least the breeder animals are in caring hands.

Hey guys, Thanks to all that took the time to answer. I appreciate it. I know my post was long and I'm not very good at communicating this way. Yes, costs are a consideration... but not the main thing. We have had communication "issues" in the past with this vet and her office staff and we are trying to rectify this. Although, I don't think we are getting anywhere. For instance, when we took the new pups in for the second set of shots (the rescue shelter had given the pups the first set of shots, but we missed the time frame by 6 days (it was unavoidable on our part) so the vet insisted that the first shots wouldn't count). After the exam she sent in a vet tech to finish up and we specifically asked what would be needed on the next visit for puppy shots (what we considered the 3rd set but the vet said they were the second set) and we were told that there was no charge for the actual visit because there was no need for an exam, it was considered just a follow up visit, and then given a list of shots needed. I had it figured at 57 dollars... and that is after i told them that it wasn't just the money due that was the problem, it was not knowing ahead of time and we are not willing to face surprise charges (when possible, of course, we are not talking about emergency situations or diagnostics). So... here we are with the pups in the exam room, on time, according to the vets strict shedule for time allowed between sets of puppy shots and just to be doubly sure I mention this to the vet tech who sees us and the pups before the vet does. She tells me there must be some confusion (picture heavy sighs and eye rolls from DH and I.. here we go again) and I explained to her that the confusion must be on their part, not ours, because we specifically asked on the last visit about this. She tells me this is "impossible'. I tell her it is not only possible but, sadly, highly possible and par for the course. Geesh! She then asks me who the vet tech was on that visit. I tell her I don't know her name (it's hard to keep track, there are new and different employee's, including this one, every time we visit and this is, again, after we have told them that we want all communication on record and that we neeed to know what to expect, moneywise, beforehand... surprises are no longer accepted) but it should be on the record, no? Silly me, eh? We tell her we want to speak with the vet.. she scurries off and comes back just as quickly...says things will be straightened out. Starts to leave again, as she does we spot the vet tech from the previous visit. We tell her that is her, she's the one that gave us the info. Much wispering and not so whipering conversations going on in the hall. At this point it is bordering on the absurd. I open the door and ask the vet to talk to us.. she says take it up with the office manager and walks away. My DH was boiling. Anyway, office manager tells us same thing... it is impossible that anyone could have told us this. At this point door is opened and i see the vet again... she tells me that this is not up for discussion and that if I don't agree with the exam fee and a few other puppy shots that we were, also, told previously that were not needed, that we can go to petco! I was furious and told her that even petco has scheduled shot days and if we left now, the pups would, again, be off the allowed puppy shot period, thus forcing us to negate the 2nd set of shots just as we had to negate the first set. Her reply was that a week or so wouldn't matter!! My DH had taken us to the vets office directly from work... he works construction, very hard work... he had not even had a chance to take his boots off. He was tired to begin with. Now he was exhausted and pis*ed, too. We gave up in sheer frustration. What was supposed to cost 57 dollars now costs us 147 dollars! Ugh! We didn't even have 147 dollars. It simply wasn't in the budget for that week. Don't forget, we did try to budget for this. Also, on the Rimadyl thing, I struggled with the issue when Toby needed it. I knew it was a risk but he was in so much pain that if there were no relief I would have had to put him down. He was crying at night and could never find a comfortable position. The Rimadyl was a miracle drug for him. My concern for the pups is because the vets office says that there isn't much risk for young pups. I'm not sure I believe that. And I do know that there are lots of other meds out there. What I need to know is which ones to ask for and which ones will work with less risk. There, surely, must be standard meds for post surgical pain? As to folks who say that the pups won't need pain meds? Maybe not for 5 to 7 days...but I do believe that they will need some pain meds. I don't subscribe to the thought that they (animals) don't need them even for such things as dew claw removal, neutering and tail docking (as newborn pups or older) and such. I remember when hospitals routinely did circumcision (no anestectic) on human babies. I didn't understand THAT thought process then, never mind that it came from doctors. It took a nurse to prove just how excruciating the pain actually was/is. She instinctively knew that the cries from these babies were cries of pain. Nobody listened to her. She taped recorded the different cries of babies. Clearly, you could hear the terror and pain in the cries. It seems so foolish to me that doctors would think otherwise. I know that when I had abdominal surgery I was very, very sore and in pain for more than 24 hours. I won't over medicate them. I'll observe them and see what they need for how long. But I also won't under medicate them. Hey, maybe I will end up taking the pups somewhere else. Still, I'd like to know ahead of time what pain meds are effective and not risky. Thanks again, Silly

Do you have friends who are low income?- why not just give them the puppies have them take them in to get fixed calming its there pets, you give them the money YOU pocess and thats that- drop off that vet- when he asks about puppy shots- I'm sue vets by now are used to the i got a dog lets re home it gig. You save money animals get fixed thats better then honesty in this case IMO.