i hear ya girlfriend...BUT...

first, sorry to rant on your rant and maybe everyone there stays more informed and reminds themselves of your pets past care....BUT...

when i have an elderly cat who last year got a 3 year rabies vaccination and is automatically given another. yeah, i was pissed. his immune system is beyond (was) compromised anyway without overload of any vaccines, let alone a double shot he didn't need. nope, maybe my fault for not standing drill sergeant over my vet. from now on, "what is that? what are you doing now?" ya know? sorry.

in the meantime, i hope you get more understanding clients!

on the flipside, the original vet there, i would kiss the ground she walks on. she is the first to suggest geriatric comfort tabs. i tell you, it pulled my old man out of the depths in 1999/2000. i had him 7+ years longer than i expected. she told me it doesnt' work for all of them.

I know what you mean about medical care, whether it's for me or my precious darlings. :) Yeah, it's expensive, but I gripe more about my own bills than I do any vet bills I might have.

The only complaint about cost I've ever had with any of my pets was when we took Clyde the pug in to be...well, taken over the Rainbow Bridge. We really wanted to be with him when it happened (at the time, I did, anyway), but they wanted to charge something like $20 more (I KNOW, that doesn't seem like much) if we wanted to be in the room with him. I just wondered what that was all about, but I never asked them about it.

Being paranoid, I was thinking that without us in the room, it was basic, before-death care. But WITH us in the room, it would require more song and dance. Of course, I have NO proof of that, and to tell you the truth, I'm glad that we could just say our goodbyes in the exam room, then go to the truck and have a good, long cry.

And the vet sent me a letter of condolence after, and that meant more than anything. :)

Hang in there, Sheepco! You're all doing a GOOD thing.

Brenda

I have complaints and complements for the various Vets we have had take care of our pets. For the most part they have been competent and caring (even when their major work was with big animals in a farming community). A very few have made me want to call for a lawyer. Not only did their 'care' of my pet fall short they were offended to be caught. The most infuriating was when I took a very healthy kitty in for vaccinations and they took her to another room and brought her back positively dripping with fleas, dander and frass. I was totally stunned. I had spent 20 minutes grooming her before I brought her in and there was no evidence of fleas, their frass or their damage. They then presented me with a grocery list of "treatments and medications" that were urgently needed including their kitty grooming salon at $60 a visit. Needless to say, I removed myself and my cat to another vet who thought it was strange she had only a few bites (and those were new) but a huge number of live adult fleas, dead fleas, loose dander, frass and NO attached eggs. Even with a bath, grooming and the Siphitol products it was two weeks before they were all gone and in the meantime kitty and DH were absolutely frantic. (Fleas like DH for some reason).
Chickie, I know this was a fluke and not a common occurrence but you can see why I am nervous about new Veterinarians. On the other hand I have had Vets give free exams to a pheasant I brought in who had a concussion and one who sent condolences when one of our dogs didn't make it through surgery and those who made phonecalls to check up on their patients. In a new town I have equal difficulty finding a Vet as I do finding a good personal physician. I suspect you are top of the line. Sandy

Now that I have calmed down, I would certainly agree that not all vets are equal, just like human physicians. I guess some people just don't think about what they are asking vets to do by diagnosing problems or prescribing medications over the phone, etc. What about the client, patient, doctor bond?

I don't understand charging an extra $20 for a client wanting to be with their pet for euthanasia. We always give people a variety of options...be there or not, say good bye afterwords or not, etc. If an owner chooses not to be with, and many people just can't even though they would like to, then I am the one that holds them and strokes them and nuzzles them and whispers 'we love you' to them at the end - for their parents...and for me. No extra charge...

Again, thank you.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm and more hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I hear ya all! :-) Vet stuff IS expensive, without a doubt! Mostly it is because usually the practice owner has bought every single thing in and out of the building with their own money like the x-ray machine, the film, all the surgical equipment, lights, cages, runs, towels, sterilizes, ultrasound machine, dental equipment and every single pill and ointment in the place, to name a few things. No Cleveland Clinic or other big corporation helping with the expenses either. Many vets will do "good sam" work on wildlife just to help the animal and in gratitude for the person being kind enough to bring who ever is in need into the hospital.

It varies but where I work there may be 20% of bills that are either bum checks or after services are rendered the people say" I don't have money!" If they told us about the money situation BEFORE hand, we would be very obliging and help as much as someone who had just won the lottery but PLEASE be honest with us. Is that too much to ask?

A spay, although a routine surgery, is a major abdominal surgery involving a complete ovariohysterectomy. Both ovaries, fallopian tubes and the uterus are removed. NOT and easy surgery at all. But people question our $65.00 total fee because "it's just a spay!"

Veterinarians are also sometimes not looked at as ~REAL DOCTORS~ like an MD. They only need to know one species. Sometimes we need to know every other species on the planet except the human, and there are major differences between many of them! Everything a human can suffer from also applies to animals.... diabetes, various cancers, blood disorders, hypertension, heart disease ... you name it. The different species, even breed variations, need to be dealt with a different way.

You have a physician order blood work or radiographs and generally are lucky if you hear from someone within a week. Veterinarians need to read their radiographs and analyze blood work within a few minutes to hours and get back to the owner with the results so the appropriate treatment can occur. Veterinarians will take the time to answer questions, call back the owner and spend time answering questions about their patient's care and well being, rather than the human physician who repeatedly looks at his watch and seems annoyed that you have yet another question. ( At least that has been my experience.)

The experiences of other people certainly will vary!

Allowing someone to pass to the Rainbow Bridge is very stressful for ALL involved. If the person is there or not, we want things to go as smoothly and peacefully as humanly possible. We first give them an IV anesthetic. ( Yes a TRUE anesthetic and we could do a real surgery on the patient with that injection.) This is followed by the euthanasia solution injection so they pass peacefully to their final rest. Why an additional charge to be with your loved one at this time? I don't know. We don't charge more but do ask if the person wants to be in the room or holding their loved one while the final act is played out. It is a nice way to go.

There are various pet insurance companies that will help to cover the cost of vet visits. Even if you don't have insurance for your pet, generally the cost of vaccines, and a check up plus heartworm medication is only once a year. Divide that by 12 months and the price is not too horrible.

When you get into something more involved like chemotherapy, that is a different story and the price can be staggering, without a doubt. Each family needs to decide if such a treatment and expense is a viable option.

Ask neighbours and friends who they recommend as a vet. There are certainly some loons out there to avoid!

I'm done with my mini rant. :-)

3D Chick

sheepco, it is wonderful that they have your love!

chicka, i agree with many, many things you have posted. it is very difficult when i move to another area to choose a vet. as a matter of fact, it was even difficult for me when the added a vet at "my" clinic. i still request when "My" vet will be there adn make my appointment then. i didn't do thta initially and was very perturbed by something the other one did. it was petty without going into details, but hey, it was my old man. i am sure everyone gets as protective as i was with him.

what i detest is when "they" do NOT listen to the pet owner. the "owner" knows their friend more than the vet. listen to them. i am not saying either of you, or any, do not. BUT, that always seems to be the conflict's beginning.

I know without a doubt that I would gladly take my (now singular) pet to Sarah or C3D with no worries whatsoever! It's good to know that I wasn't paranoid about the thing I brought up before. (*sniffle* Both of your comments were VERY touching.) Also know that I'm just airing my concerns, too, and I know you ladies can't do anything about them. :)

Ok, I did forget about one other thing (and thanks for reminding me, FTM!).

I already knew from a past experience that Clyde was allergic to rice in canned food (since he only had about 5 teeth left in his little head, that's all he could comfortably eat). A former vet had suggested this kind of food, but when Clyde would become ill after eating anything with rice in the ingredients, I just gave up trying to explain it to the vet. They wanted to do liver tests and (insert name here) tests, etc. He was fine after I changed food, though.

So a year or so later, every month, Clyde would get sick. Every month, it was slightly different, and his symptoms would sometimes change and/or get more pronounced - vomiting, drinking lots of water, vertigo, lack of energy. My DH finally figured out that he was getting sick not long after we'd give him his monthly flea treatment! The kitty never had any problems with it, and I still treat her once a month.

So I talked to the (newer) vet, who didn't think that was the problem at ALL, but ok, she went ahead and prescribed different flea treatment...with the same results. I finally went online and found studies that suggested it could be toxic in individual pets. I even asked an online vet friend, and she said at least one of the brands was banned in Canada (where she was in practice).

The vet still didn't believe me. I knew my pet, though, so I just stopped giving him the treatments, but by then, it was too late. He was old, and we never did find out exactly what damage had been done to his little body organs. I have a feeling that's why she sent the condolences - maybe she finally realized that I knew something was not right.

It was just frustrating, and I felt rather like a child being scolded because I didn't have a degree.

Brenda

I must say that I have had bad experiences with people doctors more often than with vets. Sometimes it seems they are totally impossible to deal with. I am fuming over a visit to a specialist about damage to my left thumb. I injured it some time ago but it just recently became annoying enough to bother me after I injured it again. It's pretty obvious I have torn a ligament or tendon away from the bone and it is sitting there at a 90 degree angle from it's normal position. The doctor I was referred to wouldn't even look at the thumb. He kept rubbing the back of the hand and saying "Hear that grinding? You have arthritis." Duh! At 62 with the abuse I have given my hands, I would be surprised not to have arthritis! That isn't my problem. Now I have to find another specialist. In the meantime, I'm afraid I will grip and twist something else and tear it enough to damage it permanently. I am sure my insurance company will love me for that.
Sorry for my rant. Let's hear it for Human and Animal doctors who are competent, compassionate and are willing to listen. Can we clone C3D? Sandy

I had a great vet who was an excellent surgeon but very, very, expensive. My dogs died of old age and he had given them great care thru their life.

Next dog- I went to cheaper vet to have her spayed. Ended up with nonabsorbant sutures missed and left in her when they removed the sutures. Then I palpated along her suture line and found 2 hernias.

Took her to the expensive vet who did surgery and found another hernia (total 3) and he repaired them. He is very expensive but I appreciate him more after he helped our girl out.

I really do wish vet care was cheaper though. I understand why it isn't but it can take a hefty chunk out of your pay.

I have to preface this by saying that we have animal care/ lay vets in our family from generations. I know it isn't the same as a degreed Veterinarians, but for many many years in our area it is all we got. My grandfather "treated" farm animals most of his life in this area. He also rodeoed hahahhaa. We have pictures of a two-headed calf he delivered alive. It lived for about a week afterwards they say. My mother remembers it quite clearly, she was about 12 or so. His "payments" kept the family going through the depression and even after he got "real work".
Now we have two local vets. They both seem nice enough. One has treated our family animals for years, farm animals though. I took my cat to him for a neuter. No problem, pick him up tomorrow. He seemed fine for 2 days then started going down. I called him, got the cat back to him. He has no idea what happened, he did all tests, no infection, no other problems. The only thing I can think is maybe he tied his urethea or he got in infection that he wouldn't tell us about. Something happened, cat died after $300 of treatment, besides $100 of neuter. So I paid him. I didn't even gripe much and none to him. I know he has overhead and bills.
Do you know he made me wait until the check cleared until I could come pick up my dead cat?? OMG I have never written a bad check in my life. I was so very tempted to just go get the cash. But you know it became an honor thing to wait for that check. I thought my kids were gonna die.
Now we go to the other Vet in town. He is nice enough so far. We will see when it comes to a crisis. I am sorry to hear you have problems like this and I do know it happens. I also realize not everyone will treat a pet like a person. I can't afford to spend the same amount of money (realistically) on saving a cat with chemo or some other extensive treatment, that I can on my child. That doesn't mean I don't care for my pet as best is possible or get them the best possible treatment for what is the problem.
Karen

"Duh, no. I've been a tech for 27 years, Our office manger/tech - 36 years...what's a cat?" LOL!!!

Well, I'll pay whatever it takes when it comes to my pets. I agree that people are ridiculous w/ vet bills most of the time. I mean, how OFTEN does the pet REALLY go to the vet???? If you average it out over their lifetime it's probably pennies a day - if even.

Oh Karen, I never meant to suggest that just because a person can't afford veterinary care for their pet means thay love them any less! I know that's not the case! And it is a HUGE deal for someone to have to euthanize a beloved pet because they cannot afford the an expensive operation, chemotherapy or whatever. My old Golden "Boomer" had hemangiosarcoma. I couldn't afford to take her to the U of MN for surgery and chemo, and her life expectancy would have been maybe another year or two with any luck even with all that. And after working in the ICU at the U of MN vet school for 3 years I saw what some chemo can do to some dogs, just like people. My boss removed her spleen and the grapefruit sized tumor, closed her back up and she lived another 10 months, energetic and happy 'til the last 2 weeks. My choice, and a hard one to make, but she was not my child. And she had a rich, full 12 years, and her quality of life was wonderful to the end.

Life is hard like that sometimes.

Hear, hear Sandy! And CD3, all that and more too! Thanks.

Soooooooooooo sorry your kitty died, Karen ! :-(

There are good people / competent people in every profession.There are also people who should never be near anything living! If you have ANY doubts about what someone tells you, ask questions and DO NOT let them rush through their answers ! If you feel at all uncomfortable about a treatment suggestion (or attitude) WALK OUT and find someone you trust. This is your family member and they deserve the same respect and care as any one in need.

I have found that many owners know what needs to be done in many circumstances and some times it does make my job a whole bunch easier because the major problem has been resolved, or nearly so. :-) You are right. No one knows their pet better than their owner. Oh sure we might know technical terminology like: "boo boo elbow" or other things but the bottom line comes down to ONLY YOU KNOW what is best for your pet!

For example, chemo may be OK for some but not OK for others, no matter what the vet says and the decision you make for your beloved family member IS 100% right for you!

My Mikey, my very best fuzzy friend ever, a grey kitty, had squamous cell carcinoma in his mouth. I knew as well as his oncologist, there was not really any hope to prolong Mikey's life. We did try 2 courses of chemo but most importantly his pain was under control. Mikey died 32 days after I found the bump on his gums that was smaller than the size of a BB pellet.

One month later, Teeb, another kitty , had intermittent diarrhea. She went for endoscopy and we found intestinal lymphoma. Following numerous e mails and phone calls to human and vet oncologists it was determined that form of cancer was not painful. Chemo would buy her another 9 months of life. OK. We went for it and we got 22 more months with Teeb! I would say 95% of her days were good days. If she could wake up, get petted, eat and slug the other cats who got out of line, that was a good day! After all, Teeb was the kitty who was in charge of the rest of the kitty herd. :-)

Bosco, the GSD, had a very guarded prognosis with his type of cancer. A very aggressive hemangiosarcoma of the spleen generally spreads and kills 80% of the patients within 1-2 months of the initial diagnosis. We were ~~VERY~~ fortunate to detect it early and remove the cancerous spleen in an almost bloodless operation (to decrease microscopic spread of the tumour cells throughout his doggy body) and we started chemo exactly 10 days after the surgery. He still had his stitches in his belly when he started his chemo!

We **NEEDED** to try to prolong his life for a multitude of reasons. True, we are very fortunate that I am a vet and most things are either free (like x-rays, surgery, bloodwork) and the treatment was done at cost through the extraordinary generosity of the oncologist who cared for our Mikey and Teeb.

Had I been a "real person" our cost for Bosco would have been just over $5000.00 total! WOW!! I don't know that we would have been able to afford that, even though the cost was spread out over 4 months. (That price does not include the follow-up met check radiographs and bloodwork after December 2005.)

Thankfully all has turned out far better than anyone anticipated for Bosco. :-) This was the right decision for US. Had someone else been in the exact same circumstance and decided not to go further with surgery or chemo, that would be the exact right decision for them!

Everyone is different and only YOU know and understand what your beloved family member can or should endure. They know only you and have complete trust in you caring and love for them. This trust can never be betrayed and don't let any one try to force you or your pet into anything with which you are uncomfortable!

brenda, how sad :(

btw, i was also very impressed when i received a condolence card from my vet. i was even more impressed when the clinic donated to the the univerisity vet school in my old man's honor (i rec'd that card from the school).

I'm glad to have read this thread. I've been having serious guilt/doubts about the decision not to do a complete removal of mammory glands on Tippy. It's been 6 mos since seeing the vet and her tumor has doubled in size now.

We have a new vet at our office and he said Tippy could live another 5 or 6 yrs if we did the proceedure and follow up with chemo, etc. The last vet we saw a yr ago respected our decision after we asked about a healthy life expectancy. Tippy is extreemely afraid of the vet's office. She's had surgery twice before in her 14 yrs and she doesn't do well.

My fear is that it would make her immediate life more miserable than it would extend her life and I just can't bare to see her go thru such trauma. I want the life she has left to be happy and good until we know it's time.
The surgery and follow up care would certainly drain our resources and then what?

Like I said, I'm having to talk about this because the new vet brought up issues about her life expectancy, but that's if she were completely cured of her cancer and still who can guarantee anything?

Thanks C3D for your statement. It's what I needed to hear.
"Everyone is different and only YOU know and understand what your beloved family member can or should endure. They know only you and have complete trust in you caring and love for them. This trust can never be betrayed and don't let any one try to force you or your pet into anything with which you are uncomfortable!"

Oh, how I will hang onto that when the time comes. :(

I'm depressed now. I had,I SWEAR world's best vet back in California. I really and truly took him into my consideration when I decided to move to Texas. I even asked him if he ever considered moving to Texas! Some of my bills where very high. Some were very low. I know he cut me slack on strays and stuff that didn't require a lot of work. He was worth the price of his expertise, fixing it right the first time,giving real answers(even if that was "I don't know"), or just his natural talent! I had to take a bunny in when he was on vacation. The other vet (another local small animal vet at a different clinic)totally botched the job. Totally. Then charged me a ton!
My "real" vet fixed it and the bunny was fine. He even gave me a pity discount because I was so broke after the dork vet! His boss(also incredibly talented) worked on my mom's animals from when I was a kid. He worked on my animals. I wish I could kidnap him or something! PJ

I moving where you guys live.

Nephthys bill when she was sick was not cheap (no complaints) and I told them I only had so much before they hospitalized her (which is where my gripe is).

They went over then made us feel like bums for not having the other 50$. They weren't going to release her until they had it either. I was lucky though my boyfriends dad had driven me down there and had a credit card we could put the rest on.

What are geriatric comfort tabs?

sandy, geriatric comfort tabs are an antioxidant vitamin, according to my vet. sometimes they eat them willingly and sometimes they don't. i had to mix it in food for my old man to get it in him.

The cat is more expensive than my medical costs. I took our 15 year old cat in for seizures. The Vet wanted to do a blood test...$85. I had a full blood test for myself last week for $35.
The vet called today and had to put the cat down. I went in to pay the bill: $250. For my blood test, two doctor visits and the cost of my prescription I paid $150 just a week before..so I reviewed the bill.
In addition to a $34.50 office visit I was charged $52.00 to review the blood profile. $15.00 for the shot. $20 to bath it. $18 to house it over night. $15.00 to put it in a can (burial) $12 to administer fluids. $40 to administer euthenasia. My biggest question is: If I am charged a fee for every single movement the Vet does, what am I paying $34.50 office visit for? The privilege of sitting in the lobby? I was supposed to go back to my doctor this week...thanks to the Vet I can't go until the middle of December