Gophers and Ground Squirrels protected in La Habra Heights?

15 years ago

Is it possible? My brother in law tells me he can't do anything about the rodents because they are protected in La Habra Heights. I find this very hard to believe considering the damage these critters can cause. Is it just a restriction on poison which I could understand or is there a restriction on trapping too??

Zeuspaul

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Comments (20)

eloise_ca
15 years ago
Where did your BIL get that information? I would still trap, and keep it too myself :-)
gobluedjm 9/18 CA
15 years ago
If that is true you need new city management. I would check with them, maybe on the city website.
It is legal in CA to kill ground squirrels. I think it was on the state website I read that couple years ago.
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Buffalo, Assuming you've bought the 24" Tomahawk trap, you've got a good trap, that works very well me. I'm surprised you are seeing squirrels and haven't caught any yet. Let's cover a few other basics to make sure we aren't leaving anything out. Make sure the trap is next to a squirrel run, or a tall tree (preferably one you see squirrels in sometimes). You'll want to clear all tall weeds/flowers/plants away from the trap. Squirrels don't like to enter a trap with weeds around it. I throw down an old rug or a piece of carpet and put the trap on top. It keeps the weeds down and the squirrels don't seem to mind entering the trap when it's on a rug. Once you catch a squirrel, rug will also hold the squirrel scent, which I think helps to entice the next squirrel to enter the trap. If you are having a hard time getting squirrels in your trap, try a more higher visibility bait. Squirrels have keen eyesight and can spot highly visible bait. I've not had that good of luck baiting with peanut butter. Squirrels just never seemed to eat it for me. Acorns, pecans, or an ear of corn have all worked well though. If you have a hedge tree around, throw some hedge apples around the trap. Squirrels love those and they are highly visible. Once they get next to the trap, they will go after the tastier nuts/acorns in the trap. I do catch some birds in my traps. In the spring, Bluejays will eat acorns (but not pecans). Lots of birds will eat corn still on the cob. But birds are easy to release and I've rarely caught a bird with whole unshelled pecans as bait. They are too big for birds to swallow.
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Posted by: winter_plumage_AZ Sonoran Desert (My Page) on Thu, Jun 23, 05 at 12:48 "Okay, here's what we have established: Traps were placed for an unknown target. Squirrels can jump and quail can't carry apples. You've paid $300+ to kill quail (illegal, btw) but you can't pay anyone to erect a freakin' barrier." I did not spend 300 on anything. I got the check back and purchased from an alternate source two discounted live traps, and five two dollar snap traps. The bait (apples for live traps, cotton for snap traps) are already things we keep around the house. Inspection of the property was free. The entire thing was inexpensive. 50 dollars or under. I agree a 300 dollar barrier would be affordable. I dont think anyone could build me one the size I need for that. If I am wrong and someone is willing and able to come over and build two enclosed gardens for me that complies with my HOA for under $300 dollars -- you have a job if you want it. E-mail me and we will talk. I bought LIVE traps to catch and release squirrels, not to kill quail. I set the traps according to the specifications I was given. I have not done anything "illegal" as you suggest. "packrats & mice aren't into fruit; therefore I'm not understanding the reason for trapping them. Oops! Money for the pest control people!" It wss the young man at a pest control place who, when I told him I would not pay the 300 dollars, kindly told me where I could find discounted live traps. Go figure. Why trap packrats if they arent into the fruit? Because I don't want them destroying the firebrick on my kiln (very fragile), or my air conditioning units, or my lawn mower, or the wiring in our cars. They have already chewed holes in my tarps, built a nest under the lawn mower, and are in the kiln area. "How *DID* they evolve without cultivated fruit in their burrows?!! *Think* about that." Dogs and horses evolved without commercially prepared kibble or commercially produced feed. Yet they still eat it. Cats cannot hunt or kill a cow. Yet they will eat beef it if it is in cat food. Just because they eat a type of food now, doesn't mean that they couldn't have "evolved" or survived in the wild without it. (or that it is the healthiest thing for them to eat either). When you alter an animals natural habitat, they do not always act the same as they would in the wild. Sometimes even domesticated animals carry out instinctive behaviors in illogical ways. I know a lady in Hawaii who has a dog that collects and stores coconuts under her house. I know of another whose dog liked to herd the kitchen chairs into a corner. "Now, how long do you suppose fruit would retain its moisture? If fruit were "stored" in burrows, the moisture would create toxic fungi/mold." Many people where I grew up used to store apples and other fruits and vegetables in dark, dry, EARTH, root-cellars. Green apples (especially the smaller ones) actually do have quite a long shelf life. Assuming they would mold or just dry out quickly, that is still not proof that they are not being taken (or taken and placed into in burrows). Animals will drink antifreeze. It is not part of their natural diet. In fact, it can be quite deadly. Animals sometimes take or eat things because it is available and smells good, not because they "have to" and not knowing it is not a "logical" or healthy thing for them to do. I have not ruled out the possibility that it might not be some other type of animal. The live traps were one way to try to find the answer to that. They were never intended to kill anything. "How 'bout a surveillance camera?!!" That is a good suggestion and something that I did think about and check into. I agree that if I knew without a doubt what was taking the apples, it would be helpful in finding a solution. But I need a wireless camera (no electricity in the orchard and too far away to run electrical cord) that projects to an indoor monitor, it has to be weather proof (it is an outside exposed area), and the moniter has to either record or have the ability to hook up to a VCR, (so you dont have to have someone present 24/7 to observe the moniter). I was expecting prices similar to the motion activated nanny cams you see everywhere now (100 dollar and under range). Not so, the outdoor wireless that transmit long distances are extremely expensive. The prices I got were all close to 1000 dollars (installation not included). That is just not affordable and so I am still shopping around. "I happen to think that education is constructive, even if it isnt what we want to hear." "Education" is constructive. Sarcasm, presumption, insinuation, and the assumption that your "opinion" is the only "right" one, is not so constructive. It is your tone I take offense to. And frankly, it is not really needed to get your point across. "It is disturbing that people don't care enough to know and value our natives as part of the diverse ecosystem of the Sonoran Desert, and can so easily take away their lives for myriad reasons--not the least of which is for fruit that can be purchased at the store. The wildlife being displaced are without alternatives/options, and their hungry young are left to die a slow, painful death of dehydration and starvation as they wait for their mother to return. Enjoy your crop." If I simply did not care, as you suggest, I would not be attempting to live-trap and relocate. Part of our subdivision is next to protected desert upland, part is not. Mine is not. Because of the way the community is situation, we have many native and non-native food sources available. The animals here are far from starving. The cottontails and quail are so big and fat, they don't look like desert animals. People even put seed out for them. No critters (quail, squirrel, or unknown target) are going to be forced to die a slow and painful death just because I intend to find a way to stop them of eating ALL the fruit from my fruit trees. You have made your point about the problems associated with urban encroachment and the plight of Arizona's native wildlife. I think it is great that you feel passionately about this cause. I have my own causes (and believe it or not, most are animal welfare causes) that I am equally passionate about. But it is not my preference to belittle or lecture people for not agreeing with my beliefs or opinions. This conversation between us is not really productive, so please, lets just move on. Jessica
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zeuspaul
Original Author
15 years ago
I was up from San Diego county visiting my sister at Easter. I thought they were kidding. He swears it is true. I checked the city web site and found nothing either way. I am guessing he must be mistaken. There could be some justification for not using poison. However if they can't trap that is totally ridiculous.

Once a neighbor turned them in for cutting down a tree when they were having their septic system repaired. The city came out and counted the trees on their property. I believe they are allowed to remove one tree per year.

One of their neighbors has a non native walnut tree grove and he is not allowed to remove any of the trees. They do not have a home owners association. It is the city.

Here in San Diego county if you don't take care of your gophers it is frowned upon. I did have one neighbor who doesn't like killing them. He trapped them and let them go on someone elses property!

Zeuspaul
gobluedjm 9/18 CA
15 years ago
The bad thing about poison is coyotes, bobcats, hawks etc may eat the dead rodent and then they get sick and die.
So yes trapping is much better and to release locally is well just...stupid.
I have hawks around and want them around due to open space. They take care of the bad guys.
hosenemesis
15 years ago
I want a Rodentenator.
kathi_mdgd
15 years ago
To put poison in gopher holes i use a length of pvc pipe,stick it down in the hole then pour the poison in,This keeps it from getting on the ground for the birds etc to get hold of it.Then i throw dirt over the top.
We also drop Havenyedos(sp) The hottest peppers you can get at the Mexican markets and drop those down the holes.Has worked for us.
Kathi
peaches5
14 years ago
It is illegal to release ground squirrels in Calif. For that matter is is illegal to release any animal. I found this out from all the research I just did but cannot put my hand on the article I read tonite.

http://acwm.co.la.ca.us/pdf/g_squirrel_pdf.pdf
tells all about diseases the squirrels carry and control methods used in LA county. It says the squirrels are non game animals and may be controlled. I have no idea about La Habra Heights and the laws mentioned here.

I am at my wits end. The squirrels moved in this year, ate all my strawberries, steal my bunny pellets, eat the fruitless mulberry leaves, (I do not care about the leaves, just that there is an endless supply of them on my property with 3 trees to dine on, but I have peaches that I do not want them to have,) and now I find they can carry the bubonic plague, and can share their fleas with my dogs.

Humane methods I read about were electric control, traps, (but what you do with them after you catch them?) maybe they meant kill traps and anticoagulant poisons. Drowning was specifically mentioned as inhumane.

I have put fresh dog manure in a few holes and successfully closed off some of them. Their main entrance is on my next door neighbor's property. I will try poison in a pipe and the hot peppers that Kathi suggests.
gobluedjm 9/18 CA
14 years ago
I doubt it's illegal to release them (ground squirrels) but it is legal to kill them. Perhaps in some areas it might be illegal to release them where they are known to be a problem whether it be disease or another reason.
Lowes sells poison and it states only for use in CA. I am battling one right now, he isn't digging tunnels, just taking plums that fall, but I don't want him getting comfortable and calling all his cousins! He got out of the live trap today as soon as he saw me. He is so skinny.
Ground squirrels won't climb your peach tree, he'll just eat of the ground. Are you sure they aren't tree squirrels?
Ground squirrels have a white collar or ring around their neck.
I have flooded the tunnels and they leave.
If you do release them take them into the forest where no one lives and miles away.
I would be very upset if someone released one around here.
peaches5
14 years ago
You can think what you wish but here is the law:

http://groups.ucanr.org/gsbmp/Laws_and_Regulations/Legal_Considerations.htm

WHAT IS THE LAW?
Â All fur-bearing and non-game animals that are legally trapped as nuisances, including skunks, opossums raccoons and coyotes, must be immediately killed or released [Exhibit D].
Â The Department of Fish and Game has interpreted released to mean a release within a reasonable time at a location within a three mile radius of the original trapping site [Exhibit E].
Â The law does not allow an alternative action of transporting wild animals to an animal shelter for later transfer to private citizens.
Â Even state licensed wildlife rehabilitators are not allowed to accept healthy wild animals for release back into urban or rural areas. (refer to Section 679. Title 14 (f)(4) of the California Code of Regulations)

and I found the link about drowning and humane ways to euthanize:

http://groups.ucanr.org/gsbmp/Laws_and_Regulations/Humane_Issues.htm

The issue of humane death arises within two methods of wildlife control: killing and trapping. In both killing and kill traps , one must take utmost care that the death is as quick and humane as possible. If live trapping but not relocating, animals must be euthanized in a humane manner.
Humane manner is defined by the American Veterinary Medical Association Panel on Euthanasia as " [when the animal's life is taken] ...with the highest degree of respect, and with an emphasis on making the death as painless and distress free as possible. Euthanasia techniques should result in rapid loss of consciousness followed by cardiac or respiratory arrest and the ultimate loss of brain function." "... this technique should minimize distress and anxiety experienced by the animal prior to the loss of consciousness."
Some unacceptable forms of euthanasia:
Â freezing
Â drowning
Â bodily injury/bludgeoning

Some acceptable forms of euthanasia:
Â medical or laboratory grade CO2 chamber
Â cervical dislocation
Â veterinary approved euthanasia drugs
peaches5
14 years ago
Well, if he won't climb my trees, then I can trim the mulberry so no branches are near the ground and not worry about my peaches. Thank you for letting me know!
I sure hope you are right! and yes, they are ground squirrels, big four inch holes in the ground on my neighbor's property.
gobluedjm 9/18 CA
14 years ago
They don't normally climb and have never seen them climb more than 2 feet. He tries to climb the black wrought iron fence but fails. Their feet/paws must be different than tree squirrels. That's how they get in my property over the chicken wire. I can't imagine them climbing a tree.
Leave a few on the ground then for sure he won't climb.
He only went for my trap cuz I picked up all the plums on the ground.
4 inches is big holes. wow. Never seen them that big.
If you have any tree squirrels they will be climbing though. I have one and gets up on the fence/block wall and steals them.

cervical dislocation, so I could break its neck then...if I could get hold of it.
stanofh 10a Hayward,Ca S.F. bay area
14 years ago
Get a cat,feed a feral cat.They do wonders on varmints. I've seen half grown cats eating huge gophers. Did you know gopher looks just like sirloin?-no kidding,no fat,deep red meat.
Hey,when you think of it-gophers are vegetarians making a lean non fatty..meat.
Cats have saved me hundreds of dollars this year. I can actually enjoy a vegetable garden with real squash plants. Last year I lost all my squash,cucumbers,a few whole tomato plants and a nice Chayote vine to gophers and maybe squirrels.Add a Bizmarkia palm and a rare for here Ficus auriculata. Again,this year all plants are strong.
In praise of the cat from somebody who had hunting and herding dogs for over 40 years,never a cat. I learn every day.
gobluedjm 9/18 CA
14 years ago
If I didn't have coyotes and racoons that run the streets (seriously) a cat might work.
sunnie
14 years ago
Well, just to add to this..I saw 2 big possum's in my back yard. They actually
jumped down from the block wall. And I have a very large Avacado tree just
hanging full of unripe Avacado's. I know they are just waiting, but I'm kinda
afraid of them! But don't want them around. What to do??
hosenemesis
14 years ago
Sunnie, what kind of avocado is it? Mine are Hass, and they have been ready to eat since November. By August they are rancid. Have you picked any to let them ripen? Hass don't ripen on the tree, you have to pick them.

If you live in a neighborhood that has possums you will just get new ones if you get rid of the old ones. A large dog is the best defense against too much grazing by possums. Fortunately, they usually don't eat as much as raccoons or squirrels.

We have tree and ground squirrels, and the ground squirrels are winning. I put so much water down their tunnels that my California Redwoods are actually green this summer. We have expensive poison stations, traps, cats, and dogs. Our neighbor even got a rat terrier! They have destroyed the lawn, the terraced part of the yard-- it's a nightmare. If I had any guts I'd pour gasoline down the tunnel and blow the whole neighborhood up. Just kidding. Don't call Homeland Security yet.

Hey stanofh- I'll bet gophers taste a lot like guinea pig.

Renee
gobluedjm 9/18 CA
14 years ago
Renee,
Once my dad did that and out came a chipmunk on fire. It ran under the house into the crawl space cellar! I guess he rolled in dirt to put himself out...luckily!

Then another time he plugged all the holes and stuck the hose down one. Chipmunk came out, half drowned, couldn't run.

Haven't seen the ground squirrel in 2 days since he escaped from the live trap. Hopefully he learned his lesson.

I have read small animals don't like the smell of peppermint. I have seen the oil at natural/health food stores.
sunnie
14 years ago
My Avocado tree is a Fuerte and they don't get ripe enough till late
November but they're so good, hate to have the possums get them!
I suspect they have a family someplace near. My neighbor see's them
too ..she has oranges. What about putting something around the
bottom of the tree...think they could climb over and up??
Thanks, Sunnie (Ontario, Upland Area)
hosenemesis
14 years ago
Hey Sunnie- maybe not- they don't seem too bright. Perhaps one of those dog-lampshade thingies around the trunk would do it.

Thanks for the tip, gobluedjm. I'll refrain from the gasoline for a while, even though my house has no crawl space and it would be worth burning the house down to get one of those little...
nil13
14 years ago
The only problem I see about releasing the animal after I trap it is the smell. I hear pellet guns and slingshots can be useful as well.
reefisher
14 years ago
Do you think maybe the American Veterinary Medical Association Panel on Euthanasia has a vested interest? I can see it now, (and with our legislature, anything could happen) State bill XXXXXX requires all live trapped rats and vermin to be euthanized by state licensed professionals only. At $160 a whack. Drowning works for me, just put the animal that is still in the live trap in a bucket of water. Bludgeoning is also effective, if done right. We do it for cattle and fish.

Gophers and Ground Squirrels protected in La Habra Heights?

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Gophers and Ground Squirrels protected in La Habra Heights?

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