I'm with you Tony, but this IS a great source of info for us new to beekeeping. (as is Beesource). But I think that this whole generation is in need of dropping harsh polllutants and going more organtic especially when dealing with our food sources. You are right, quick answers and instant results are more attractive to some than waiting something out with a bit of time, work, and patience.
Please don't give up on us, I do enjoy your input.
Thanks,
Jackie

I'm always amused (or amazed) when people plant their yards and gardens fully of blooming plants and then complain when they attract bees. It's almost as funny as the people that buy 10 acres out in the country and keep it mowed 2 inches high like a golf course and kill everything that isn't Tif on site.

"this forum is messed up"
Do I detect a little frustration in your tone? It's okay, we all get a little frustrated from time-to-time. Usually frustration is caused by a lack of expectations being met. And I guess that's the main point I'd like to make: about expectations.

I have been a member of Beesource for a few years now (since Jan'03) - I'm not as active there now as when I first joined. I joined this GardenWeb forum a little earlier (Nov'01). And my beekeeping experience goes back quite a few years before that. I've always seen the two forums as being intended for somewhat different audiences. For "serious" beekeepers, regardless of experience level, I'd highly recommend Beesource. But like anywhere on the net, it's "buyer beware". While there are some very good and knowledgeable experts there (in fact, many); there are also some I would have to consider being just shy of quacks (fortunately, it doesn't seem like they post very often).

At least from my perspective, this forum has a slightly different target audience. The main thrust behind Beesource IS beekeeping - not so with this website. The main thrust behind GardenWeb is gardening (of which Bees & Beekeeping is just one small branch). This forum tends to get a lot of wonderers in from other GardenWeb forums. Usually they have sought out this forum because of some type of "bee problem". And, as has been noted, we also get some enthusiastic new beekeepers or those who have just begun to consider the idea.

So while Beesource offers a very detailed (and even, 'technical') discussion of virtually all aspects related to keeping honeybees, this forum is more general in nature (thus the Mason bee topics, Carpenter bee topic and the occasional wasp or Bombus discussion).

After many years of the regular old style beekeeping (i.e., with the use of chemicals), I went organic (chemical free) a few years before I joined this forum. So I have managed to discontinue the use of chemicals completely for several years now (mainly via genetic selection). This past winter I had the highest loss in several years (about 20%) - which I see labeled as a "normal" loss to be expected - it typically hasn't been a normal loss for me. Now I say all this to allow the understanding of my position on chemicals. However, I have also written in this forum and explained the use of Sevin dust and/or the use of soapy water to, on occasion, remedy a situation with a problem hive. I will undoubtedly do this again in the future when, in my opinion, based on the circumstances the original poster has described, the situation is warranted. It does not mean that it is necessarily a "first choice" (with the possible exception of an AHB situation) nor does it mean I take the recommendation to carry out such activity lightly. What it does mean, is that given the specific situation the poster has described, it is a recommendation that can (and perhaps, should) be considered at that point in time.

When it comes to PR (public relations/public perception) regarding honeybees, there is nothing more disastrous than having unwanted bees continuing to cause problems (whether it be on public land or on private property). Whenever I have recommended such an extreme measure as killing a hive, it has only been after I, or other posters have advanced and exhausted all other available options for removal (again, with the possible exception and likelihood of it being Africanized). It is logical for a homeowner to try and locate a local beekeeper that will come and remove the problem hive rather than run the risk of being stung themselves. But when a local beekeeper can't be found or the homeowner determines affordability is an issue, then other options have to be considered. It is not acceptable to most homeowners to just say be patient (and wait to be stung - at least in their minds), especially if there are young children around.

It's WHY they bring their problem to this forum. Many are not interested in becoming beekeepers; however, most are intellectually curious and wanting to learn more about the particulars of the problem they're experiencing. I would actually hope the new beekeepers in this forum, do in fact' explore the web for ALL the information they possibly can glean from the internet (not just Beesource) - there are some wonderful beekeeping sites out there! Some may get to the point where they feel they've "out grown" this GardenWeb forum but that's just the nature of such websites....beekeepers come, beekeepers go. As you learn more and more and are willing to share your knowledge and experience, this forum is a very good way to share (but it, by no means, is the only way).

Yes Tx, you were right about the frustration. After reading all of the posts about people wanting to kill bees, the next one I read was someone who wanted to get rid of bees on their bushes so they could trim them and asked about spraying them. Your response to my post was well thought out and reasonable. I guess we all fly off the handle once in a while. I realize that everyone isn't as enthusiastic about bees as beekeepers are and what we may see as a treasure ( a swarm in a tree or under an eave) is a nuisance to some others. I also realize the fear some people have (which is justified)when children are involved, but I still wish people would look at all options carefully before reaching for a can of poison or spray. Thanks for your reply

Yes, I agree with you. The bloom (nectar or pollen) on the bushes would undoubtedly fade after a week or two - why not wait to trim the bushes until then? Obviously patience is called for in that situation. Blooms fade = bees gone (and no chemicals used).

I think you have to re-read bandit_tx's post again and see the humor (folly) of the type of folks he's talking about. City folks who want to live in the "country" BUT they don't really want all the "nature" that goes with it. They have their own vision of a real "sanitized" version of nature. Some of it gets pretty ridiculous...

Educating is never a waste of time. Maybe frustrating, but it can only open minds to other possibilities.

This is a great forum, I have learned alot.

Jane

Jane, You are right. Educating is not a waste of time. We're going to be spending most of tomorrow speaking to a number of middle school classes about beekeeping. We'll be bringing an observation hive, all of the components of a real hive, samples of liquid and comb honey, and products we've made from the hive including lip balm, hand salve, soap, candles, and lotion bars. It's great to see the look in their eyes when you open the observation hive and it's easy talking about keeping bees when it is so enjoyable. Who knows, maybe we'll be the spark that gets a youngster interested in being one of the next generation of beekeepers.

Well this forum may be messed up, but I think my local beekeepers (Albuquerque) are kind of messed up too. I have a hive that just started this spring in the eaves/soffit of my house. So far I've been told by various keepers that they'll come get them for anywhere between $140-$220 (?!?!?!?!) In my previous households in CA, AZ, and UT, they would do this for free.

Do they not realize I can just go to the local hardware store and by $10 worth of Sevin and $10-$20 worth of new siding and be done with the matter? Grrrr.

do you realize, they have to pay for fuel to get to your house, and pay for maintenace on their vehicles and and pay 30% for state and federal taxes if you write them a check, and work around people with bad attitudes like yours, and all that doesn't even include the work it takes to get the bees down and out of there for you.

I don't know anyone who does bee removal for free. Swarm removal yes, colony removal no.

It certainly is an option to throw sevin into your home, although it's a violation of the EPA regs. It will kill the bees, and if the honey doesn't seep and ruin a ceiling somewhere, it will certainly attract rodents and insects.

Woot! They're dead and gone - and it only cost me $60 total, including clean up and new siding. Only took 15-20mins to kill the hive and about an hour to clean up the mess, and about another hour to rehang new soffit boards. A WAY better deal than the cheapest local keeper fee of $140.

BTW for the uneducated, do a Google for "free bee removal" and you'll come up a bunch of hits, just none in NM. And I've had free bee removal done for me in the past in both AZ (Phoenix) and UT (Monroe, a small rural town). So, I guess we know where the competition is, or at least where there are keepers that know a sweet deal when they see one (free worker coloney and additional honey production). Oh well, guess noone in NM really is serious about it.

And I don't think I have a bad attitude. If keepers don't want to compete with exterminators, that's their problem, not mine.

should have used a flame thrower