Ethics question...

18 years ago

There is a Starbucks near where I live. In the center that it's in, I was shocked when I saw they had nice clumps of Oldhamii (25 feet) as part of their landscaping. Now, as shown by webgator in another thread, it's possible to cut culms and propogate if you plant each cut culm. Would any of you see any real harm in cutting ONE shoot from one of the clumps (they have about 15 clumps around the lot) taking it home and trying to propogate my own grove? I guess I know it's probably wrong but I'm thinking no one would miss one shoot if there are like 20 of them in the clump you know? Hmmm. Should I listen to the angel or devil on my shoulder?

Maybe I could just go there and act like a landscape maintenance guy and cut one eh?

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Comments (14)

unautre
18 years ago
When this poor guy, a great supplier in my experience, right smack in the path of Katrina, gets back on-line, buy B. oldhammi from him:

bambooplantation.com

Jim Bonner
Bamboo Plantation
642 Columbine Ln SW
Brookhaven, MS 39601

I'm sure he needs your business more than you need to steal bamboo.
kudzu9
18 years ago
robanalog-
Besides the questionable ethics, you could find yourself arrested. If it were me, I'd go buy a latte, and then ask to speak to the manager with cup in hand. Ask nicely and see what he/she says. If the answer is "no," then go buy yourself a plant that you don't feel guilty about every time you look at it.
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Hmmm, I had to think about this one for awhile. And I will play devil's advocate, for a bit. I have never felt guilty about removing a ripe seed pod or two from a planting, when I could reach it from the sidewalk (and no, not leaning way over.) I guess the difference to me is that taking a cutting is wounding the parent plant. I have taken cuttings from groundcovers, when the groundcover was spreading onto the sidewalk. This is usually in a commercial setting. But as I learned last year in a neighborhood dispute, the sidewalk needs to be kept clear of vegetation from edge to edge, by city ordinance, so the plant is trespassing anyway. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I think it is safe to say that this material will be pruned and discarded in a commercial setting. Paid groundskeepers are not being paid to propagate plants. There was one time that I was sorely tempted to steal an entire plant. A Burger King had become vacant, and boarded up, and there was a Japanese maple in one of the planting beds. The building stood vacant for a long time, and I always planned to contact the owner, but by the time I would get home (at least an hour later) I would forget. Besides, the property was up for sale. Eventually, the tree was gone, but by that time, I was no longer in the neighborhood routinely. I hope the tree found a good home, and did not just die. I think it is sometimes a gray area. In some cases, there is a good reason to believe that the owner does not even know or care about the existence of the plant. In my area, there are old abandoned fruit trees along the roadside in some areas. And Himalayan blackberries are a terrible weed. Is it wrong to take these? (In my mind, taking an apple is the same or WORSE than taking a cutting, because an ignorant person can damage the fruiting spur, and affect subsequent fruiting.) And is it wrong to take a cutting, if the fruit tree has superior fruit? There is always the remote possibility that the tree is an older variety that has been lost, and might now be rediscovered. Also, I have been tempted at times to bring pruning shears along on my bicycle rides in self defense. Sometimes there are weeds along the side of the bicycle path. I am not sure who owns the land, I believe that it is public. If these blackberries are blocking a public right of way, then isn't my pruning a public service? So far, I have been too lazy to do anything about this, so it hasn't been an issue. And contacting the authorities may be futile. A few years ago, I wanted to complain because my bike ath was closed down for the entire summer for a public works project. However the shoulder on the other side of the road was hazardous because of heavy machinery parked in the shoulder. Noone knew which government agency was doing the work. Granted, I only made a few phone calls before giving up. But in my neighborhood, I usually note the yards that I like, and use it as a good reason to take a walk past, and hope to find the gardener tending their plants. I find this a good incentive to get out of the house, and get the exercise that I need. However, the vast majority of my 'free' plants come from the various gardening club meetings that I attend. Many gardeners with mature plantings have plants that need dividing, and will bring in their excess. Sometimes, these are sold at low cost. I have much more sucess with plants that have survived in local gardens, than with plants that have been force-fed in containers all of their lives.
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GW bromeliad forum members are a very friendly group, it took me a bit of botching to get past the zoneÂ requirement but I do enjoy opening when I have a spare half hour Â not very often. I am very wary of internet forums as they can be used to very quickly assassinate the character of other persons, we have seen it in the past. A good example is the ill informed accusations about Keith Golinski Â then the apologies when he gave the facts. ÂSorryÂ does not remove the mud! In reply: Friday 18 Dec: "It would be easy to name the perpetrator ,she is well known" Â Yes it is me, Lynn Hudson, the Facilitator of the Council of Australian Bromeliad Societies, Secretary of Cairns Society and BSI Director Â all voluntary. " i have let a close relative of her know of the matter" Â Why has Jack not contacted me himself? "you bet i am P @$#^%& D of." - is a tragic waste of energy when this could have been sorted 18 months ago. You have stewed this in your mind until your accusations have become very dangerous. " there is the smallest possibility that the plant died ( ha ha ha )" Â Jack it is alive and well. "i am not in the mood for any legal action that would follow if i did name her" - What???? What is this prattle??? " she is the secretary of that society ,would my complaint be acknowledged ? not a chance ,it would be a lost letter each time!" - This type of behaviour is not practiced by me. You do not know me Jack, I do not hide. I face up to my own actions and responsibilities. Sat Dec 12: " the plant of 'Montezuma's Gem ' i donated for the Cairns world conference ( it was donated at the Port Macquarie reginal conference ,and had a opening bid for some $250 to be carried on at Cairns )" At the time you said the plant was donated to Cairns Society for fundraising for the conference. "this plant was not produced for the rare plant auction by the person that took it up there ,and when questioned said she said had a headache and would worry about it some other time" - Jack did not at any time discuss this plant with me at the WBC or since. At the Auction Bob, my husband said there was an enquiry about the plant. I did not say I had a headache, I said "the grasshoppers made a feast of it", which was the truth, it was ragged. From Lisa "As for the woman who appropriated your intended auction plant, I'd be plenty steamed about that too. She's taking money out of the society's coffers!Â Â Taking money out?? Previously not publicly mentioned is that I put in over $5000.00 of my own money into WBC18, not to mention time, petrol, phone calls etc. Plantsplus: "I would be asking the appropriator of the conference donation to return the plant to you" - I am happy to return the plant to Jack. I was hesitant in taking the tiny seedling in the first place as I have all sizes of grasshoppers feed on my bromeliads. " unless they want you to name names. Alternately send an open letter to the Brom Society in question (without a name) and voice your disappointment that a member would act so disgracefully." Â This type of back door behaviour does not reap any good rewards. I prefer to work upfront and honestly. "Having said that we all know some people who will do anything to get a brom if they want it. I just wonder how many generous growers get "done over" by them just because they are too polite to "out them". These people are crooks plain and simple Â" - I am pretty well known as being too generous and honest. I seldom accept any plant without making payment. As Len Trevor says: "As soon as someone stands up to do something, there are persons who just want to criticize and knock them down. In fact these same persons are simply jealous as they are not as capable as the person who is busy doing the job." I was not paid to organize either the Port Macquarie or Cairns conferences. I also paid my own way just like every delegate. This also applies to attending BSI conferences and board meetings. Officers and Directors pay our own airfares, accommodation registration etc., but we do get free lunch at board meetings! We are volunteers. As Jack said "Ethics is now a endangered species". - Surely personally getting the facts up front before making accusations is ethical. I have just spoken to Jack. The plant will be up for Auction at the Darwin conference in April 2011.
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Thanks everyone for your responses. Meghane ... I thought it sounded confusing. I was paying $20 Zocor then it went generic (Simvastatin) so I started paying $10. She decided on her own to change my Rx to Lovastatin which is weaker and not as effective as Simvastatin but very very cheap $ wise. At the time she told me my doctor approved this which I didn't understand but decided to try the Lovastatin anyway. When I found out the doctor didn't do this along with saying the insurance denied payment that is when we had a heated argument and I complained and when I say manager I mean the manager of the pharmacy. The day I picked up my Rx for Simvastatin he wasn't there as they don't work together and now it seems she is there more than he is. Elsewhere I would have to pay at least 65.00 for this but hey as the manager told me this is the agreement that was made stupid as it is it was made. I just don't get why she should care if the store is losing money on this particular presciption. I have to go pick up a Rx today so I'm hoping he will be there and not her. Wish me luck .... :-)
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When we have gotten excellent service, we try to purchase from that store/salesperson. It is of course their job to sell but some people go above and beyond to explain features, educate, etc. As long as the price is reasonable, we reward that. Couple examples: We had worked with lowes, hd and a contractor on kitchen designs. Our salesperson/"kd" at lowes was excellent, she clicked with us, and she provided excellent support. So we went with her. Didn't really want to go the big box route, but here we are. We are looking for slate tile, so went to one store where the sales people were mediocre. Went to another store, much better selection, much more helpful and knowledgeable staff, lots of as piles and displays. We will be buying from that establishment because of the experience, although it is more on the expensive side. As a customer, I want to reward good service and staff. Even though I am young and "technologically savvy", I hate buying online. That especially goes for durable goods and expensive remodeling items. I want a local place of service, not calling a call center states or countries away.
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robanalog
Original Author
18 years ago
darn it. all saints in here I guess...OK. No stealing bamboo from Starbucks then...Just seeing if anyone would push me over the fence onto the darkside. Maybe I will go ask the manager and try to do it the right way.
socalboo
18 years ago
Rob - you don't live in San Diego do you? I saw a Starbucks in sports arena with some big Oldhammi growing tall the other day...

Anyways, what you propose is also known as poaching, which violates a number of California Penal Codes. Wouldn't bother asking the manager if you can cut them, but you might want to ask if he knows who does the landscaping and/or who the landlord is.

Better yet, you can usually buy Oldhammi for pretty cheap. Jim Bonner is a great guy and offers good products for a fair price. Let's all hope that Katrina didn't wipe him out. There are other reputable mail order sources and/or local sources depending on where you live. You can email me privately if you want these. If you are in my neck of the woods (san diego co.), i can point you to 3 or 4 sources locally than can take care of your thirst for Oldhamii.

And think on the bright side, if the propogations failed, not only will you committed a number of crimes, but you don't have any shoots to show for it!

pcberner@gmail.com
Scott Wallace
18 years ago
Yeah, I'd ask. They will probably will not care, as was the case of a McDonalds when I wanted to harvest seed from some of their palms.

Let me know is you need any other info on the process...
lkz5ia
18 years ago
Its only a crime if someone sees you do it. They are growing by a starbucks, people are everywhere, you do the research.
foxd
18 years ago
I spotted some bamboo in pots in a local Starbucks. On closer examination I found that they had taken dried bamboo culms, drilled holes and put in fake plastic branches. *sigh*
robanalog
Original Author
18 years ago
That's so funny Socalboo. That is exactly where I saw it! I was headed towards the drive thru, looked right and BAM they were all there in a row. There is a guy down here that I do buy from. It's just that he sold me one potted culm and just one of their (Starbucks) shoots could give me at least 8 or so to quicken and thicken my future Oldhamii grove and also some experience propagating this way. I won't just go and cut it. I just figured that nobody cares about landscaping plants and that nobody would miss anything if I wanted to snip one down.
Off the subject though, my next purchases will be a mei-nung and timor black or bamusa lako. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I won't steal I swear.
Ackar
18 years ago
If you can find out who does the landscaping, you can probably find out which days they work on the plants.

I've gotten culm segments from the local university by just being around when they do their thinning/trimming.

You can get alot of propagate-able material that they would normally trash, if you show up at the right times.
socalboo
18 years ago
Rob - did you notice that they just topped that bamboo. It had some BIG shoots coming up that were wacked...I was so bummed. I work up in Banker's Hill close to the park but Sports ARena is a frequent lunch spot. If you haven't taken a look, go to the Walter Andreson nursery off Morena and take a look (but don't buy - way overpriced).

Not to condone any type of stealing, but Oldhamii is about the most readily available and inexpensive bamboo you are gonna find. A shame to take the risk for anything, much less the bargain of the bamboo world.

Let me know when you are looking for Lako or Atro...I have both in small format from Florida and Miss (I sure hope Jim at BambooPlantation weathered Katrina is good form) that I'd part with.

Paul
steelhorse
18 years ago
I've just cut some B. vulgaris from a Lawer firm near to me, I was kind of nervious and they were kind of surprised when I asked them permission to let me cut one of they 30's culms they have there..

history short....now I have a big bed of soil/perlite/peat moss with 20 or more culm/branch cutting hopping to grow...
Scott Wallace
18 years ago
Congrats on the find! Keep us posted.
boonatic
18 years ago
I grew up in San Diego,was ther this summer and there was no shortage of oldhamii all over the place ,First thing you see when you drop over the coronado bridge,saw it all over in coronado and near ob sunset cliffs and pointloma erea,saw it on 94 near 125 interchange,,just find someone and ask,,,but keep in mind ,oldhamii is easy to propogate by culm cuttings but a young shoot is not your best bet,a two yoer old culm is better
hoosier52
18 years ago
What features allow one to ID Oldhamii? I mean, heck, I trianed my wife to ID Yellow Groove in a few minutes but the ...Yellow Groove... makes it pretty easy. Does Oldhamii have easily recognizable features?

BTW Boonatic, the Nitida seedling is alive but yet to shoot and the Robusta is still shooting and starting to approach 2 1/2 feet tall and has about 6 culms. Not a monster by any means but it did come back from -12F last winter better than many of my other Fargesias.

Ethics question...

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unautre

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