Regarding the mature size of this tree or any other, I have only one thing to say: SO WHAT?? The thing about working with the mature size of the trees is that for most of your tenure here, and indeed for most of your life, you will be living with the immature size, as Brent's current situation shows. I am turning into an absolute heretic on this subject, but I believe that urban trees should be planted such that the serve you to some extent during that immature period. If you have room for them to reach maturity, fabulous for you and the tree. But if mature size is too big for this lot, the trees can be cut down, and indeed in many cases they should be cut down. Replacement stock is readily available and can be pre-planted. There are many planting strategies that work to permit a succession of trees - planting more densely than you eventually want the trees to be and thinning later, incorporating some fast-growing, short lived, even weedy trees to provide cover while the slower-growers grow, and so on. I don't know your individual trees but as you learn about their habits and rate of growth, ask yourself whether you are designing this lot for yourself to enjoy, or for some future owner of the NEXT house built on this lot? You can do both with good planning, but you certainly should not sacrifice your current needs out of fear that some future owners' needs will not be met.

Both common and glossy buckthorn are absolutely, without a doubt, DESTROYING vast wooded areas up here. Shade tolerant and very prolific, they easily move into wooded areas and set up shop. Once established they prevent EVERYTHING else from growing there. No more spring wildflowers, no more tree seedlings. Even maples, which are as a group very shade tolerant themselves, will not regenerate under the buckthorns. If you don't think something like this is a problem, it is because you lack the awareness of, and appreciation for, what was there before. Every exotic species is not invasive. I intend to plant some Norway spruce, for example, on land I plan to buy. Norway spruce can reproduce in this area, but will never become a problem plant. This discussion absolutely calls for a nuanced approach. Banning the use of ALL non-native species would be hugely ill-advised. But taking the view that any plant that can grow in a given locale should therefor be allowed to do so is just plain ignorant. The buckthorn invasion up here has been described as a slow-motion catastrophe, by people that can see and understand what's happening. Again, I think that people that don't see these invaders as problems have little understanding of the havoc they are causing. +oM

I've read that "Bog sage" really doesn't like to sit in water. Too much information! It will "bog" your mind!!! Below is the LINK to my Salvia photo site. You can see by the dates on the photos what salvias will still be blooming in September thru October every year here where I live. Well....Whatever that blue sage is GG, it is downright gorgeous! And your gardens are beyond description LOVELY! I AM JUST PLUM ENVIOUS of your gardening abilities and landscape artist's eye for layout and color! That's the plain truth. I wish I had half of yours. Fabulous color combinations, plant variations, textures and designs. And your deep, fertile soil....man! Annie Here is a link that might be useful: Annie's Salvia photos

Don, my previous post must have posted and I bet we both missed the other one being here. Hope to tell you, I agree about Fragrant Fire. It is absolutely gorgeous. Big and unique bright green with white margins of good size. Sweet arch to the leaf too. And what's not to like? It sported from Old Faithful (an Olga, and I think you got it recently?).....I'm hoping that the SEEDPODS set on my Old Faithful lead to viable seed. Nice. One that I now believe you MUST get is White Knight. I took a picture of it today, with its big white flowers still open and there on the scapes some very nice seedpods. It was late afternoon and it had rained about an inch earlier in the afternoon, so I could not judge fragrance very well. My strategy is changing. Instead of placing all the fragrant ones close together, I shall have to space them with suitable partners that are known to be good producers one way or the other. My 4 or 5 (?--did I misplace one?) Royal Standards are coming into bloom now, and I'll post a picture below, of it and White Knight. Two of three Aphrodites are tantalizing me with big starry topped scapes. Avocado is blooming his heart out and no seedpods no seedpods. Doubled Up is still producing trumpet sized! white 6 inch flowers....sigh, I love that beauty. ...Miss Saigon is blooming ....Rich Uncle set 3 seedpods (is it fertile?)...Victory set a gazillion ....Pods on Journey's End and Golden Meadows and Seducer and Orange Marmalade and Fragrant Blue (YES, LOTS), Clear Fork River Valley, Paradise Sunshine, IRISH LUCK, Yellow Splash Rim, SWEET MARJORIE, Twist of Lime, Maui Buttercups, Climax (YES LOTS)..... I guess it is a good thing that not all seeds are fertile, because a little goes a long way. One of these days I'll figure out about plants. Hold on, here they come..... White Knight Fragrant Fire Royal Standard Aphrodite making a star appearance Fragrant King....big blooms and seedpods too? Wow! Irish Luck with 1 seed pod...better than nothing Paradigm...not fragrant, but look at those seedpods..:) Same for Climax....not fragrant but lots of fat pods Journey's End....now, I'm in LOVE with those seedpods And to wind it up, here is Sweet Marjorie, a fragrant hosta. Nice show for a hosta new here this spring. Hope I did not go on too long, but how do you stop!