I'd be interested the citations that label it poisonous.....none of my references or any other sources I can access indicate any significant toxicity for this plant.

Deer resistance does not always indicate a plant is toxic to deer. In many cases it has more to do with taste or digestability. And deer resistance is only just that -- there is no guarantee the plant won't be sampled by deer should the thought move them or they become hungry enough. It just means that plant is not rated high on their preferred menu. Even plants of known toxicity, like rhododendrons or azaleas, have been browsed by deer from time to time.

Thanks for replying GG. I have closed most of the tabs,but there was a poster at Dave's garden who mentioned that all parts of the tree were posinous. I should have thought to check Cornell; they don't have it in their list of
plants poisonous to livestock, so I'm guessing it's okay. I'll write a couple of sheep and goat related lists just to double check, but it looks like I might just be getting one in the near future. :^)

I know what you mean about "resistance" doesn't mean "proof", (as in deer proof), or that it is necessarily toxic. Lots of plants just don't taste good, or they are difficult to eat, but I need to know whether or not browsing a Katsura would be fatal to a ruminant before I plant one here. It's not really deer I'm worried about. We raise dairy goats, similar in size, physiology and browsing habits to deer. There are a number of plants I can't/won't plant because I don't want to take a chance of poisoning the livestock. For example, Cherry trees are wonderful, and Lord knows I like cherry pie, but the wilted leaves are highly toxic. A wayward goat could strip an entire sapling bare with no ill effects, but if a branch should blow off one in a storm and the herd were to be out eating the wilted leaves the next morning, by that afternoon I would have very few goats left alive. It only takes a few bites, and apparently, the wilted leaves don't have an altered taste that would discourage browsing. Anyway, that's why I don't plant cherries, or yews, or azaleas or rhododendrons.

So, do you have this tree, or know someone who does? Do the fall leaves really smell like burnt sugar? (or cotton candy, or caramel, or whatever) I have the perfect spot for one out back, near the planned grape arbor. I can just picture sitting out there in on a warm fall afternoon with a glass of wine, the setting sun sparkling on the pond, golden brown grape leaves rustling in a slight breeze overhead, and this delicious fragrance wafting across the yard while a crew of incredibly fit, shirtless, tanned young men busy themselves pulling weeds, raking leaves and refilling my glass.

Anyway, that's how I imagine it. ;^)

>incredibly fit, shirtless, tanned young menYou are a dog!

They do scent the air around, especially when there is a group of them.

A group of the trees, that is.

I just planted two of them about a month ago. Both had a very good apricot fall color.

I couldn't smell the brown sugar scent that many mention.

From what I've found, the fall color and scent "can" be inconsistent.

Even when I went to the nursery last year to scope out the Katuras the brown sugar scent was very "faint". There were at least 10 of them in the ground yet.

My suggestion, don't purchase for the scent, that is just one of the bonuses.

There is a massive one at work - 50+ years old, 35-40 feet tall and quite wide. The scent of the falling leaves is easily detected throughout the nursery. Or was, until the rains came :-) I'm not sure if I'd call it cotton candy or particularly like any of the other descriptors but it is a light, sweet fragrance.

And I'd agree that purchasing one for the scent is maybe not the best motivation as that tends to be a very subjective sense as well as being influenced by various factors. Like rain. But they are handsome trees for other reasons and worth selecting if you have the room. The fall color on most in my area is quite stunning right now.

I have several hundred of the variety, 'Magnificum' and haven't noticed any deer damage from browsing. Sapsuckers have riddled a few with their holes in the bark. Some have significant damage. I've never read that they are poisonous.

{{gwi:454151}}

Do you think they would do well in the hot/dry Oklahoma climate? I heard they don't even do to well in my southeastern US climate. Don't they prefer cooler climates?

They prefer acid soils, regular water, and protection from intense sunlight. I never saw a good specimen until I moved to Seattle area.

Dan

Thank you everyone who took time to reply. (Bboy; um, well, yes.)

Jq and dan: I hadn't thought about it being too hot/dry. I'm in the crosstimbers region, not the prairie, so it's a little cooler (and certainly wetter) here even than Oklahoma City. We also seem to have a "micro climate", staying 5 to as much as 10 degrees cooler in the summer, and almost 5 degrees warmer in the winter, the happy effect of living on the side of a good sized hill.

But since you're telling me Katsura prefers partial shade, I'll have to rethink the grape arbor location. There are several places in the front yard between evergreens that have alternating sun/shade throughout the day, and the yellow fall color would be spectacular *if* I can get it to grow. I found a place I can order them online for about 12.00 each - not too expensive for an experiment. As J. C. Raulston put it: "If you are not killing plants, you are not really stretching yourself as a gardener." ;^)

I'll probably order at least one for the front and give it a shot, and if it doesn't make it, I guess I can always plant a Redbud.

I'm not sure it's partial shade as much as I've seen the sunlight filtered thru 95% humidity, many clouds, and higher latitudes giving greater angles of incidence.

But from your (nice-sounding) description, if you have a north aspect on your property, certainly give 'er a whirl, altho that parent rock concerns me wrt delivering acidity....

If you were using them to give afternoon shade for grapes, you may want to choose something else - not really familiar with that part of the country so can't recommend a fall color that strapping young men can plant for you, but I hope you are able to find plants in suitable number to have them labor for sufficient time for you...rrrrRRRRrrrrrowr.... ;o)

Dan

I would contact a regional tree nursery and/or univ.horticultural program to ask about it. My straight species one does NOT like heat and dry, and is usually pretty awful looking (brown edged leaves)by fall, when it turns a lovely reddish. My Heronswod Globe variety, 30' away from the species one,is smaller and with a fuller nicer habit; it always looks good. The species is in full sun; the H Globe is somewhat shaded by a cutleaf tree.Never aware of a scent except when I rub the leaves. If you want a strong fall perfume, in a tall shrub(that's what it is here anyway), plant a clerodendron trichotatum(sp.).
best,
Mindy

Agree with the posting above.

Arobo_Retum, not sure how different the weather is between Chicago and MA but the Katuras I see in full sun (full exposure) do fine. They don't exhibit the brown edged leaves...that is most likely drought stress. They need continuously moist soil....which is tough to find in full sun anyhow.

Yes they really do smell nice. Not just in fall but in spring too when the leaves first emerge. Colorful too.

They are supposed to be tough to transplant as well as tough to site in a place like OK, as they are not heat/drought tolerant yet require full sun.

The larger ones I've seen at nurseries are actually in containers which I suppose is because B&B is probably more difficult to x-plant successfully or maybe they were container grown.

I love to plant one of these myself but can't find a suitable place. Don't know about the deer resistance.

Okay, so they want light shade to full sun, but only if it doesn't get too dry? (but not too wet, either)

What about at the edge of the drainage field of a pond? (the opposite side of the dam) My plan is to plant three Cypress trees in the swampiest part close to the water, but a Katsura might look pretty nice in the drier area in the foreground.

This whole place was terraced decades ago, and is nicely stair stepped from the line of oak trees on top of the hill on the north side, down past the pecan orchard on the south. The pond sits one level down than the house; I'm guessing at least 5 to 8 feet on the dam side compared to the north east corner of the yard. Because the pond is lower ground, it's definitely cooler and moister than even the yard. As the temperature cools off after sunset and cool air rolls down the hill on it's way to Little River, you want a light jacket to sit out there and fish at night, even in July. Does it sound more like something the tree would favor?

BTW, Iforgotit, your unicode notes are nice. How did you do that?

U of Florida typically does a good job of providing good info for various plants. Sometimes it biased for the south, but will call out specific issues related to various areas of the country.

Here is a link that might be useful: Katsura

I would go ahead and plant the Katsura next to the pond as long as it has moisture and drainage throughout the year.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2294966410036511179LgnsYL

Here is a link that might be useful: Katsura by pond