Better to remove it. It doesn't break down as fast as people think and can cause problems if it's left on.

IF I ever transplant anything big enough to be burlaped I might set it in the hole with the burlap on so it holds the rootball, then cut away what I can. I just don't see an advantage to keeping the burlap in place.

Question now is if digging down and cutting away some burlap is going to cause more stress harm than good.

I totally agree with both responses above. Another thing to consider is that some of the "burlap" used these days is not burlap and doesn't break down, or, is treated burlap which takes longer to break down.

Here is a link that might be useful: See section 3c.

"I totally agree with both responses above."

So what else is new?

"So what else is new?"

Maybe that you finally said something that I could agree with!

if it was warrantied by the nursery...

then it would be best to DO WHAT THE NURSERY SAID ...

dont ya think????

if you didnt do what i said.. i would void your warranty ...

some burlap is treated NOT to degrade as fast as the natural product .. obviously that should be removed .... but even that will not stop it from degrading in time ...

rolling it down.. so it doesnt stick out of the ground is good.. otherwise it could wick water from the soil

frankly.. if all else is done PROPERLY .... the burlap issue is irrelevant.. IMHO ... that would mean PROPER:

planting
watering
mulching
and aftercare

if you do all that properly .. key word ... then no little bunch of burlap is going to kill the thing.. presuming it isnt wired around the trunk ..... as burlap will rot [eventually] .. if there is proper water for a transplanted tree ....

ALL THAT SAID .. I WOULD HAVE REMOVED IT ... lol .. go figure on that... would i go back.. well.. the warranty thing.. plus the shear size of it .... how big is this BB???

and you know.. that really sums it up.. NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO... YOU WILL FIND A SOURCE THAT TELLS YOU TO DO IT ANOTHER WAY .... and frankly.. you can and will drive yourself insane.. trying to coverall the options ....

as i said.. do everything else 'properly' ... and i doubt the burlap will be an issue...

ken

PS: i would make sure i talked to someone in authority at the nursery .... not just some punk who answered the phone ... just to make sure the warranty person is giving you the info ....

The warranty is probably for a year at best. The tree should hopefully last many years. If the burlap causes root problems (this does not include the wicking problem noted in my link and mentioned above), these problems are likely to show up later on and not in the first year. So, if you are planting the tree for use only in the warranty period, then do what the nursery says. If you are planting the tree for years of enjoyment, do what's best for the tree. When practical, burlap should be removed from B&B trees and shrubs. In cases of very large heavy plants, as much burlap as possible should be removed from the sides and only the burlap beneath the rootball should be left.

Tree from nursery should go in hole with nothing but roots left on it, one of the worst causes of establishment difficulty is the fine field soil or coarse potting soil it usually comes with. Unless the soil on the new site happens to be of the same or very similar texture watering difficulties are likely to ensue. There is also no opportunity to discover and correct the root deformities that are pandemic in nursery stock, due to the nearly universal and careless use of containers. Balled in burlap stock has often been grown in a band, liner or other small pot before being rowed out in a field.

Even when garden center operators or management may be aware of modern thinking about planting methods they are liable to be loathe to recommend them, for fear of customers who did not understand everything that was involved making numerous returns or presenting other difficulties.

As Ken eluded to, as long as they are a well regarded nursery, do what they suggest...ecspecially if you are working with horticulurists or arborists.

In regards to large B&B trees, in my area, several highly regarded nurseries in the US specifically state not to remove the burlap as you will disturb the rootball, which is much more determental then degradable burlap. I'm in deep SH** if I was supposed to go against their suggestion and remove the burlap as I planted thousands of dollars worth from various nurseries.

I can't comment on B&B shrubs or even small B&B trees...I always remove as much as I can without disturbing the root ball. This is really important if you are buying from a garden center where teenangers are consistantly giving out ill-advised advice, you never know what was used.

I hear poor advise from well regarded nurseries frequently. I've done many jobs that boiled down to straightening out the mess resulting from customers following the advise they got from the nursery. Unfortunately, sometimes some nurseries (even many of the well regarded ones) are the worst places to get advice about the very things they sell. The only reason to blindly follow the nursery's advise might be the warranty, and, if the nursery turns down a claim because the burlap was removed, they would have found some other excuse if the burlap had been left on. A reputable nursery would never turn down a claim solely because the burlap was removed form the rootball.

Rootballs do not have to be left in tact when planted. In fact, many (as BBoy did above) recommend completely removing the soil when planting B&B trees and shrubs.

"Rootballs do not have to be left in tact when planted. In fact, many (as BBoy did above) recommend completely removing the soil when planting B&B trees and shrubs."

That is completely ill-advised advice for B&B product in clay soil grown plants. It ONLY applies to plants with soil that can be easily removed and in which the plant can easily be balanced for placment in the ground.

I have had 1 tree die on me from a broken rootball, and I am nursing a Serviceberry that had a broken rootball right now.

Nevermind the warranty...its a son of gun to pull that tree out. I want the root ball in tact and on large B&B product grown in WI, you do what ever possible to keep that rootball in tact.

Again, differences of gardening for different soil types and zones throughout the US.

Whaas, I wasn't advising removing all the soil (as some do). I was just using it as an example to show that rootball disturbance wasn't necessarily detrimental to most plants. As long as roots aren't left exposed, a broken rootball shouldn't have a negative impact on the plant in most cases. The difference in soil types makes a difference in regards to drainage, and can make a difference in regards to how easily the soil can be removed from the rootball, but it doesn't make a difference in whether or not the plant can survive temporary root exposure when planted.

I think there are differing opinions about whether or not a B&B plant should be bare rooted at planting, and, at least some of the benefits of doing so would depend on the soil types involved. I don't thing there is much debate about whether burlap should be left intact when planting B&B woody plants by the experts.

No worries, I was just pointing out that with a clay type soil rootball you can't remove that soil from the roots, nor would you want to...if you tried you would instill SEVERE root damage.

Yes, removing the burlap is pretty subjective, but that burlap helps contain the weight of the soil from ripping the roots. Once the native soil around the rootball settles you can then remove the rope and upper burlap...usually within 30 days. Again this is pretty much the only way with clay based soils and large B&B products.

i have pure yellow mineral sand ...

if i do NOT remove almost all of any kind of other soil.. the sand will wick all the water out of it ...

and once clay or peat based mix is dry .. YOU WILL NEVER RE-WET IT ... and your plants will fail

and then we come back full circle to PROPER WATERING OF A TRANSPLANT ....

if i were to obtain a very large tree.. with a clay ball ... which i did not want to bare root ... then i would have to INSURE that that clay ball NEVER dried out for 1 to 3 years [without drowning the poor thing either, which is NEVER a problem in sand] ... by which time the tree would be on its merry way into the sand it roots so love ...

as i said ... IF YOU DO IT ALL PROPER... or at least.. the best you can.. with knowledge of all the variables ... then you will succeed ...

you do not have to dig up the burlap .. if you simply insure.. that there is no adverse impact to the root ball.. in the heat of next summer ... a small hole down into the root ball ... to find out what is going on will be a much smaller impact that re-digging the whole tree ..

come next july and august... we CAN NOT be GUESSING if the root ball has the water the tree needs .. and if you make your little hole in the right spot.. you can discover what the burlap did.. in the ensuing 9 months ...

ken

Wow! Thanks for all the responses. Very overwhelming for a novice. Allow me to clarify some things if I can remember them all. It was not warrantied. (Dumb move on my part I guess, but I have 2 kids under 2 and I was anxious get this done when I had the chance.) Its a small tree maybe 5 feet. I didn't get "some young punk" on the phone, but I'm not sure if it was the right person to talk to. The soil in the bag seemed like clay to me when we folded the burlap down but lighter colored and redder than my soil which I think is clay. There were lots of little roots growing through the bottom such that it seemed like it would be hard to get off. Maybe you can tell me if I did every thing else PROPERLY. Dug a big hole. Filled bottom with a mix of native soil and tree and shrub soil, tamped it so that the root ball would sit just above ground level and hopefully not settle down to below ground level. Filled in sides with same mix. The lady said not to use less than 50% native soil & I think I followed that. Watered it. Still need to mulch it, not piling much up around the trunk.
Things I'm still don't understand:
A How people who work a nursery can not know how to plant properly.
B Remind me whats wrong with the sack if it doesnt degrade or degrades slowly?? Roots cant penetrate it???
B1. How roots can grow through into pipes (I'm pretty sure I've heard of that) and not overcome a burlap sack
C. If I did a bad job, is it too late to fix it???? I'm willing to dig very carefully with my bare hands if i need to - to remove as much as I can if that's the thing to do.
D If I check later, how do I know the right place to make the hole? What would I be looking for- that its moist?? What could you do at that point?? Just know to water a lot??
I'm so confused.
Thanks for your input though!!!!

You did exactly what you were supposed to do. Now mulch that baby and watch it grow, well not really.

A. Depends on the nusery
B. Some roots won't penetrate a non-degradable burlap (sythetic), some roots, like a Silver Maple, would penetrate a pipe...old cast pipes
C. Your job is done
D. Not sure what your asking

Glimmer don't be bothered by the difference in opinions on how to plant the trees. Sometimes the different planting circumstances call for different actions.

Also, we might be talking about a 5% difference in survival rates between different techniques. For example, I ordered 25 dogwood transplants last spring. I stuck them in pots(!) so I could move them around and try my had at grafting. 17 are still alive. If I would have transplanted them all properly and not gone hacking at their trunks maybe 23 would be alive. So even my ridiculous treatment of them only resulted in something like a 25% difference in 1 year survival rate.

Heck. The world's best educated economic minds yell at each other every day on tv "news" shows so disagreements here are trivial.

Best management practices are constantly changing as a result of ongoing scientific research
 Most nurseries do not have resources to research and write educational materials
 Educational materials for both customers and employees need to be updated annually to ensure
validity
 Information on best management practices is readily available from WSU and other land-grant
university extension offices

A. Many nursery "pros" are only people who have worked in the industry for a long time. They may have had little if any formal education and may not take the time to educate themselves. Most nursery workers have little to any horticultural training and learn what they know about plants from overhearing others or from what their boss tells them. There are extremely knowledgeable people working in the nursery industry, just not enough of them.

B. The burlap or plastic covering can strangle the roots if not removed. Imagine having a band placed around your neck as a child and never removed. The band may stretch a little over time, but if it wasn't eventually removed (or doesn't rot away), it could cause some real problems. Another issues (if the burlap is left on the top of the ball) is moisture wicking. It's possible for the rootball to be dried out, even while the surrounding soil is moist, because of this effect. There are also potential problems with wires and even staples used to hold the burlap (if they weren't removed). Whether and how fast the burlap rots will depend on the material used (what type of "burlap" it is), possible chemical treatment, soil type, soil moisture, and other factors.

Many trees are still planted with the burlap left on. It used to be much more common than it is today, but the word still hasn't really gotten out as well as it should have. Hopefully, your tree will be just fine, and I think there's probably a decent chance of that. Since you folded the burlap down on your tree, at least you shouldn't have to worry about the wicking problem. I personally would never leave the rootball covering on a tree I was planting, but may still do.

C. If it hasn't been long since the tree was planted, I would dig it up and fix the problem, but, just because I would do it, doesn't mean that you necessarily should. It's really up to you. I bet most people wouldn't go to that much trouble.

D. I think Ken was talking about using a hole to check for moisture levels around and in the rootball. This should be done in any case, but, since you folded the burlap back a little, I don't think the burlap will be an issue in soil moisture. Check for soil moisture because you should anyway, not because of any concern with the burlap.

E. (yeah, I had to add a letter) Backfill should almost never be amended when planting trees and shrubs. If you do a search on this forum, you'll find many threads where this was discussed. Like leaving the burlap on, soil amendment is "old school" and has been shown to be detrimental in many cases and almost never beneficial. Even in pure sand, it is no longer recommened. Soil amendment can cause drainage issues and root development problems.

Below, I have linked an article that I think does a great job of dispelling the myth that soil amendments can be beneficial. Also, here are a couple of quotes that might shed some light on this. I want to give bboy full credit for digging these two quotes up and posting them in another recent thread. I'll just make use of his helpful work.

"In 1970, a study was begun to try to determine the optimum amount of organic matter to add to a planting hole to aid establishment of woody plants. The study was conducted on the sand soils of North Florida using Canadian peat, vermiculite, pine bark, and colloidal phosphate (a clay-like material that holds considerable water), each at rates of 0%, 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, and 50% by volume of the planting hole.... There was no benefit from any soil amendment at any rate either in the irrigated or non-irrigated area" - Carl E. Whitcomb of Lacebark, Inc.

"This outdated practice is still required in the specifications of architects, landscapers, and other groups associated with landscape installation. It is still recommended by garden centers and gardening articles. And there is a multi-million dollar soil amendment industry that has little interest in debunking this myth. As responsible green industry professionals, we need to recognize and avoid (such) practices." - L. Chalker-Scott

Brandon brought up a great point...looking back if you ammended your soil 50%, the burlap is the least of your concerns.

Sometimes with shrubs its ok to ammend 30%, like roses, azaelas, ect.

With trees you should ONLY put the native soil back in there. Old school is exactly right. There are a few horticulturists (not practicing anymore)that I know that still say to ammend the soil. But all the "current" practicing horticulturists I know, say not to ammend the soil.

Well actually I ammended it less than 50%, ok, directed my husband to amend it less than 50%. Now I'll know not to use any in the future. Thanks for the info concerning that. I'm just hoping that that at the worst it will be non-benificial and not detrimental. I don't think I'm going to do any redigging and hope for the best. My very limited experience tells me the ammendment probably won't kill it. I planted a magnolia 3yr ago that is still alive, although it has not taken off like I'd hoped. And I planted 2 dogwoods last year that look pretty good to me. All from Home Depot with some of their Tree and Shrub soil.
As for the burlap I guess I'll hope folding it down was good enough. Seems like I saw something that said dogwood roots tend to grow more laterally. Perhaps thats to my benefit.
Now about checking the moisture through a hole. Forgive me if this is totally stupid but I think I've seen little metal sticks that supposedly you can stick in the ground to monitor light/ph/moisture. Would a big one of those be sufficient??? I'm not confident that I could dig the hole in the right place etc.
Many thanks!

I think poking a finger down into the soil is better and it's certainly cheaper and easier.

There's no difference between amending a planting hole for a tree or a rose. The problem is how soil textural differences produced by amending planting hole backfill often affect movement of water into and out of the amended planting hole. What kind of plant is placed into the amended planting hole has nothing to do with it.

Where small plants with small root systems, like flowering annuals and vegetables are grown in amended beds most of the planting area will have the same texture, only the edges having an interaction between an amended and an unamended soil.

Ok, ok, I should have clarified...ammending the soil for a plant in which its roots will likley not reach the unammended soil, ie a small shrub rose.

Also another reason, if you have clay soil your not going to plant a rose in that. You will need to ammend to enjoy the rose.

There's more than one reason (depending on how you look at it) not to amend soil. If you examine the problem of drainage, even if you amend the backfill in an area twice as large as the expected root system of the rose, the problems don't necessarily go away. The amendments may cause water to be retained in the amended soil and not drain properly into the surrounding soil, or, cause preferential draining of the planting site and premature drying of the rootball.

In rereading part of the above thread, I realize the question about digging the test hole in the correct location wasn't addressed. If soil moisture is being checked on a plant that was planted with it's rootball intact, you need to check the moisture both around and in the rootball. This is because if the soil differs between the surrounding soil and rootball, drainage may not be consistent (see previous post). This can be done with a single hole/finger-poke at the edge of the rootball or a couple of holes/finger-pokes at different locations.

"If you examine the problem of drainage, even if you amend the backfill in an area twice as large as the expected root system of the rose, the problems don't necessarily go away."

Moot point for any small scale shrub/perrenial that requires certain soil requirments, if you don't ammend the clay you won't be able to plant the rose. Only way I can get a rose like this, sure as heck didn't happen from planting straight into the clay...

{{gwi:252248}}

Whaas,
Maybe I wasn't completely clear. I'm not saying that you should never amend soil (especially not in cases where small woody plants are not well adapted to the native soil)! I'm saying that, in the case of drainage problems, there's nothing special about "ammending(sp) the soil for a plant in which its roots will likley(sp) not reach the unammended(sp) soil" as compared to plants who's roots will eventually outgrow the amended area. If a drainage problem will occur, it can occur regardless of whether the plant's root system will eventually outgrow the amended area. If amendment is necessary, it should be done so in a way (correct mixture, berms, etc) that drainage problems will not cause plant failure.

Right on, but in regards to ammending the soil, its still a moot point for small woody plants.

Point taken that drainage problems could occur eitherway.

If the soil is unsuitable for a rose it will not grow whether you amend the planting hole backfill or not. Amending a planting hole dug out of a damp heavy soil with poor drainage produces a collection point for water - a far worse situation than if the rose were planted in the same soil, without amendments.

bboy,

proof is in the pudding, that pic is one of my roses with ammended soil.

You should see my White Meidiland's right now, they are just booming right now!

I don't have pure clay, it still drains. The grading on my property is pretty dang good.

I think your making this more complicated then it has to be. Again it could be your area vs. my area.

Beware of nurseries.

My sister had the nursery plant 10 pines on their property line. 9 died. Why? The workers didn't take the burlap off. $1,200 down the drain. When they asked for compensation from the nursery, the nursey told them to go to Hell.

Rain2Fall

I doubt they died because the burlap wasn't removed...as all the guys mentioned above do you think it was a drainage problem?

If she found out it was synthetic burlap and they said to keep it on, I think its a different story.

FYI...I stopped in Johnsons Nursery (premier Nursery in WI, home of Micheal Yanny) plants their trees in their show yards with the burlap on. They DO NOT remove it.

And for the hell of it, I checked a bunch of my trees that I planted 2 years ago (all of which are completely healthy) and there are just reminants of the burlap left under the mulch.

I guess we all have different experiences.