Wow, it must be hard to make rose decisions in a place where it's hard for a rose to die, Suzy. Sometimes i'm secretly glad when a rose that really doesn't thrive in my yard has the good grace to die over the winter, so I don't have to be a rose murderer. As for the rate of failure, it's definitely a product of being a zone pusher and wanting to try something different. Plenty of people in my zone have never lost a rose because they're smart enough to only plant roses suited for their climate- imagine that! I'm more like Ingrid, in sandandsun's timely quote, that I prefer to look at winter survival as a challenge rather than the roses of a particular type (or breeder) having a specific death wish in my garden. You're all absolutely right that knowing the breeder isn't enough to judge health, survival, or any other qualities in your yard. I absolutely do the kind of trial and error experimentation that Lyn was talking about in my own yard, it's just that I haven't really come up with particular patterns for what thrives in my yard, except for the obvious ones like "lavenders and russets are usually weak" (understatement of the year) or "roses with teas in their heritage are a long shot". Rick, I admire you for checking the breeding history of the roses, and it certainly would be a more logical approach with fewer failures. I'm afraid I don't follow the breeding history or even keep track of which parents do well for me, though I have noticed that climbers with New Dawn as a parent are likely to be a good match for my yard. Wow, Nastarana, I hadn't been familiar with Jacobus as a breeder but I looked up Dream Girl, and - wowza zowie is she ever! I love those fat blooms with swirled packed petals, and it's great to hear it thrives in zone 5. Might be a nice counterpart to Nahema on my fence. You ought to share your observations with Helpmefind, since there was very limited personal information on this rose. Where did you get yours? Cynthia

Sherry, I had no idea you could get notice of garden specials at HD! Thanks so much for turning me on to them. I'm gonna definitely sign up because HD is a place I visit often during the gardening year, for soil, stakes, fertilizer, trellises, plants, gardening tools, whatever! Congrats on all your plants, Pam! Even at their common prices, they had those 5-gallon butterfly bushes (boy, were they HUGE) last year for $15. They must have been about 6' tall when I saw them, and about 4' wide. That's still a darned good price for a large plant like that. Woo-hoo, you got a 5-gal for a 1-gal price! Those of stories I LOVE to hear. I know you're planning to segregate those milkweeds before offering them up, huh? HD always sprays their plants. Susan

When I was there in July they were building a waterfall in the back by the tiki bar. They were in the process of setting it up for guests of the nursery to lounge during their visit. The place is huge! We had to use a golf cart to get to the rear of the place and to haul our plants back to pay for them. I think we bought 10 plants on our trip there which is documented in this thread. Of all the nurseries we hit on that visit, Lucky Sumo was by far the best. If you do have the opportunity please take photos and post them on the forum. It was about a scorching 100 degrees the day we went and so I didn't get photos of the nursery like I wanted to. As for adeniumrose.com, I believe the owner's name is Mike. I do not know him personally, but perhaps another member does. Can't wait to see what you get from Lucky Sumo! Tracy

I'm in the landscape industry but it is the same problem across all construction and horticultural fields. NO NEW WORKERS, not for any price, unless they are undocumented, and even those are hard to find and the risks are not worth it. Our landscape installers earn $15-$20 an hour and we can find people who are interested in the job because they like the wages, unfortunately they don't like the work. Wholesale nurseries are closing and there are very few new nurseries coming to take their place. The price of plants is almost criminal , but you can't buy the plants you want elsewhere, so you have to pay. Quality is going down, prices going up. We are growing our own roses and favorite perennials out of necessity, we don't sell to the public, all our plants are used "in house" or given away. We are very concerned that very good varieties may disappear as older nurseries close their doors. It's time to pass it on. Pass along plants, pass along knowledge.