every county has a soil conservation office.. usually associated with the extension office ... and they have all the info you need about native plants for this project... many such offices even have plant sales ...

it would be so much easier.. for you to ask specific questions about info they provide.. rather than hoping you will get it all here .. but.. hey.. who knows ... just offering other sources of info ...

the one fact i seemed to have missed.. is.. exactly how much property do you have.. inside and outside the fence ... that kinda limits the project ...

also.. in prep for all this.. what is your base soil.. does it perk.. will water be available ... and how about a pic of the dropoff ...

more info please ...

ken

I believe shrubs and native grass are better for erosion control then trees. Multi-trunked trees that produce runners are better for erosion control...so think of a belt of shrubs or multi-trunked berry trees near the cliff? blackberry, Alleghany Serviceberry, elderberry, hazelnut...

How wet is the soil? Clay or Sand? What zone?

I would avoid those "native ivies" I have some "native Ivies" that I can't seem to get rid of, I wish I could slap the bird that pooped out the seed in my shrubs root zone. It is Virginia creeper, it and it's relatives will choke out your trees eventually.

Elderberries have the advantage of reseeding readily and being extremely popular with birds (as are serviceberries). Both berries have uses to humans as well. You can't go wrong with them.

Forsythia also does well along the edge of a bank, and would provide nice contrast in Spring. It roots easily, so one plant would probably be enough to start.

Ken - I've contacted the conservation office connected with Oklahoma State University's Ag .. whatever it is.. lol ... but OF COURSE no one got back with me. That being said, I'm looking at native trees for sale from one of the Oklahoma forestry divisions. It's limited in fruit-bearing selection and many of them are invasive. You're looking at the drop off. I call it a drop off because it was, until recently. Hence, my concern for erosion.

And every bit of the top 8 inches is rich clay that turns into beautiful loam after one over-wintering of organic material. The deeper layer is just good 'ol clay, but rich and dark instead of typical red clay. Soil testing reveals excellency including nitrogen but for heavy feeders such as wheat or corn. pH is 7.2 -7.4 but the potatoes didn't mind. It's about 1/8th of an acre. I grew corn last summer in one amended spot and it was to be envied. So, basically, the only thing this soil needs to soften up is air. After that, it's prone to wash away!

My goal is to double the annual rainfall amount by stymieing water run off from the 3 other sides. This property is triangular in shape and I'm standing on the edge (point) of the back end which drops down about 12 feet from the house about ¾ a football field away.

Bodacious dirt! But where I'm standing to take this pic has already leveled off with the other properties on both sides. GONE.

Edlincoln - zone 7a/b Right on the edge in Central Oklahoma. Cooler and wetter than desertish Southern Oklahoma, but dryer than eastern Oklahoma. It's almost like it's own little world within a 15 mile radius of outer weather currents catching the tail ends of most storms. Quasi-desert in the months of Jun-Aug and heavy on the ice in winter. Weird place. But, then, that's Oklahoma.

Thank you for the suggestions, Ed. While I abhor its persistence, the bermuda is holding things down - 4 feet, in certain places. Johnson grass feeds the soil as most varieties of sorghum as do dock, lambsquarters and other native dynamic accumulators. Hate the stuff, but it feeds and aerates. Eventually, the Johnson will be GONE but not until more roots are in ground. We're dry most of the time and slowly edging out of the drought. Currently downgraded to "severe". Hugelkulture beds work well here. They not only feed the root zone but store water better and provide needed air pockets in the clay. I wondered if placement of trees might be over board causing the back side of the slope to dry out causing more erosion? I can see where you think grass is far better. I do need roots down deep. I hope I can get away with this without a man-made structure.

As it is, drainage is perfect. I'm not sure why, either. I'm VERY careful not to destroy it while removing existing weeds.
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I just realized I don't understand the mechanics of erosion. I need to study how my soil works in this manner. This has been so helpful and I appreciate the thoughts. I'm not a botanist or ..whatever.. Sometimes I just don't know what direction to look.

Any book suggestions? How about keywords for soil conservation including erosion and the mechanics of my soil? Gosh. So sorry, i'm just stumped on this. If only the conservation department would get back with me....
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poaky! You're not kidding! The previous owner had English Ivy. ... on the side of the house. It's base was almost a foot wide and there were THREE. Gah! Between that and field bind weed... gah! But the existing thicket has honeysuckle. pulling the honeysuckle would leave room for more of the other two. The birds carried the English ivy to that thicket. So, I'm settling with the existing honeysuckle. lol And there is virginia creeper in there, too. But that's how nature works, I guess!

Eibren - I forgot about elderberries. These suggestions are great (and pretty). Do you know if any of these are allelopathic to pecan trees? Do you think these would hate sumac? I can look these up, tho. The Forsythia sounds highly doable. It's strikingly beautiful. I like that. I see all this area from the back porch! I'm looking forward to covering up the view of the unkempt super fund site.

bon

There are plenty of natives grasses you can replace the Bermuda grass with, including Little Bluestem, Big Bluestem, and Northern Sea Oats.

Trees aren't the best for erosion because they can be top heavy and take down a lot of soil when they fall off. Plants with runners or rhizomes are better.

To fight erosion you would want a belt of shrubs to cat run off and direct water AWAY from the eroding part...run off can take dirt with it. (Ground water can also play a role).

You may be over thinking parts of this.

This website isn't for your area and includes mostly salt-resistant plants, but it's my go-to resource for plants to fight erosion. Without salt and in a warmer climate you will likely have many more options.

Here is a link that might be useful: Coastal Landscaping

that area looks stable to me, almost like a grassed waterway.
if you contact you nrcs district conservationist for the county you live in, you will get some input.
here are some other helpful links from the usda:

(national agroforestry center)http://nac.unl.edu/

(web soil survey) http://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/App/HomePage.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: oklahoma natural resources conservation service

Ed, you're right. I overthink things. I've been going in circles. lol And I need to be patient. I've been looking over scores of grasses and there's lots of neat stuff out there to do a lot of different things including soil-building. Ran across this one site about an asian species of grass (non-invasive) where roots stem down to as much as 18 feet. LOL It'd turn into a retaining wall. haha

Jeff, that spot was a steep drop only 3 years ago. I mean, it's "stable" if I don't mind my lot levelling out with the neighbor's lot on the left. I don't want that because it makes the entire slope from the top (upwards toward the house) even worse. Evidence in other areas are what is determining the amount of erosion and it's pretty bad. Thanks for that link. I see the nearest office. Perhaps going down there will command their attention. I don't know why it's been so difficult. OSU Ag coops are right on with public help in knowledge, etc. Btw, I'm pretty sure the drought has contributed to the severe erosion.. or "wash off" as it really is. I was watching the soil turn to sand in 2011. Amazing what a little rain does. lol

Also, ed? As for what to plant there ... for erosion control. I keep going back to Sumac and a few berry bushes. Would work? Elderberry will def be one. I think you're right about tree being over kill. Still gonna get a few pecans going but not as a hedge. Maybe only one in the spot shown in the pic.

I admit, I just barely skimmed this thread, if that, but I saw a mention that grasses/shrubs are better erosion controllers than trees. This is simply not so. A full forest canopy is the premier erosion stopper, and in more than one way. First, and this is huge, the breaking of the force of raindrops by the canopy has a huge beneficial impact, the water slowly running down the trunk and dripping off the foliage for a time after the rain event. Plus, a good deal of straight-up evaporation will have occurred. Second, the forest is more than just a collection of trees. In most healthy stands, there are a huge number of microorganisms which effectively multiply the full extent of the root zones many fold. I've seen every claim and counterclaim-the prairie lobby having made the most noise-but time and time again, if you are in an area that will support forest, that plant community will deliver the greatest ecological benefit profile, and that includes erosion control.

+oM

Sumac and elderberry would work great...they are both on my state's list of recommended plants for erosion control. Also Alleghany serviceberry, red chokeberry, large cranberry, american hazelnut, blueberries (since you wanted to go for edibles)

My reason for not suggesting trees was because I've been told that trees next to a cliff or steep bank tend to take parts of the bank with them if they fall down. Steep drop offs have been my personal experience with erosion control. Is that an issue here? Is there a steep embankment involved? Your picture doesn't show one, but I wasn't sure if your picture showed the area with the erosion problem. I'm not trying to persuade you NOT to plant trees, I'm generally a huge tree fan.

I'd advise you AGAINST planting any non-native grasses for erosion control. To be be effective for erosion control, a plant has to aggressively spread by roots or rhizomes...exactly the traits that tend to make a plant invasive, Anything that's going to work for erosion control is going to spread, and you don't want aggressive nan-natives spreading uncontrolled.

Similarly, ivies tend to be invasive and can take down trees. I'd be careful with planting ivies. Probably NOT compatible with your trees.

The pecan trees should probably be planted more then 4 feet from any really steep drop off.

You are adding a few steps that really aren't necessary if the goal is erosion control or feeding wildlife...although they may help if you are trying to get a significant crop. (Trees usually grow fine without that much effort to improve the soil).

Oh, and Fall is actually a great time to plant potted trees, shrubs and grasses...in my area, at least. Cool weather gets the trees to focus on root growth and many nurseries and "Big Box" stores have end of season sales.

I wouldn't worry too much about trees "not agreeing with each other"...Black Walnut, silver maple and Eastern Red Cedar don't agree with much, but apart from that you can mostly ignore these issues and focus on desired light levels and moisture level.

If you like edibles and natives, have you considered American Persimmon or Paw Paw?

Oh...and how much land are we talking here?

'Black Beauty' Semi-Dwarf Mulberry
Black Chokeberry (Shrub)
Honeyberry (Lonicera caerulea)
Rusty Blackhaw
'Big Lifeberry' Goji Berry
'Honey Jar' Jujube
Mayhaw Tree
Witch Hazel
All-In-One Almond Tree
Oriental Persimmon
Purslane for edible ground carpeting..

I would pretty much never plant Ivy - unless you want Invasion of the Body Snatchers.. Climbing vines will wrap around and choke out any shrubs or saplings, as well as spread through long, underground runners like phone cables. Ground vines, like sweet potatoes or other tubers, are safer in that regard.

And I would transplant the Pecan seedlings ASAP, as they grow deep taproots and are VERY sensitive to transplant shock. (Although I wouldn't immediately give up on one if the leaves fall off after transplanting - as they will often still revive and regrow back after that if their roots take hold..)

Here is a link that might be useful: Witch Hazel

This post was edited by blakrab on Wed, Sep 17, 14 at 14:28

The lot is a triangle identified by the fence line.

The green markings is wind. They are intentionally BIG because wind is a huge problem. Now ya know why I want growth on the bottom corner.

Red arrows is water run off and also some grading lines. There's a bowl effect in certain places.

Blue dots will be understory, brush and other plantings.

The yellow marking for the tree on the far left is where I was standing to take the photo and also the end of property.

Yellowing markings is proposed canopy tree plantings. Mostly, sun and heat-loving pecan that is strong enough for harsh storms.

Magenta dashes represent my existing minimally tilled garden bed (zones 2 and 3, I suppose).

ed and wisconsitcom are both correct. Wisconsitcom, you understand my goal - as much as a forest as possible given the lot restraints. Yet, it will take many years for the pecans to reach maturity. meanwhile, I think it important to include varieties like sumac and bushes to curb erosion before those roots get established. Plus, weather is an issue and, here, is more likely to have tree damage than most places. It's a legitimate possibility - until the entirety is fulfilled. Can ya see why the permie move is a good one? Look at ALL THAT WATER. I can double (or more) the annual rainfall amount. We're talking semi-tropic oasis in a quasi desert of Oklahoma in July-August !!! I see several mini ponds stretching irrigation down that slope and tons of swales and berms along contour line. That's not including roof run-off and grey water systems. I wonder if a creek would emerge after a decade or so.

This is somewhat less than 1/8th of an acre, if the information is correct. Seems bigger, to me.

For canopy trees, I would also consider American Persimmons, Oriental Raisin Trees & Red Mulberries (Morus rubra). Just make sure you plant the mulberries far away from your house or water lines, though (invasive roots).

Here is a link that might be useful: Hovenia dulcis

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Posted by wisconsitom 4/5 WI (My Page) on
Tue, Sep 16, 14 at 8:12

I admit, I just barely skimmed this thread, if that, but I saw a mention that grasses/shrubs are better erosion controllers than trees. This is simply not so.
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Quite so. The best erosion control is the most extensive & fastest-growing roots.

For the most vulnerable erosion spots, I use weeping willows as they root/grow the fastest. Note these spots are chunks of turf/soil that have been undermined by erosion & "fallen" onto the stream banks. These chunks provide little soil so the WW stems grow relatively slowly & for me easy enough to keep cut back (once a yr). I've preserved a 25' stretch of fallen stream bank soil this way -- which also supports grasses & weeds. One weeper has already been stripped of soil by this year's spring-flood but survives being rooted directed into the stream-rocks!

Again, I use WWs only for the most extreme situations -- otherwise they grow too fast to control reasonably. The "Streamco" willows the state planted yrs ago do not grow enough in a yr to hold the fallen soil-banks -- I've tried.

And just to be fair, Ed, you are indeed correct that one way in which trees can hinder slope stability is exactly what you describe-the tree tipping over and taking a big root plate up with it. Under certain circumstances, this can cause a critical failure. It is for precisely this reason that many regulatory agencies don't want any woody vegetation on dams. So in that sense, you are correct.

Where the above set of conditions don't exist though, a forest canopy is still the premier erosion fighter.

+oM

Wow. What great suggestions. That raisin tree ...... nice. Dreaming..aboutberry wine, raisin tree honey, pawpaw.... andground currants and sand figs awesome!