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girlgroupgirl

Native Shade Trees (and understory trees)

girlgroupgirl
14 years ago

So, I have next to no trees. In my back yard are two oaks, one at least 75, the other closer to 40. They are fairly large, but more open and spreading.

We also have a group of three other trees on a neighboring 2nd property, all clustered together: an oak, a pecan and another oak.

I'm planning for fall and winter planting now of various trees, and want to start with some nice shade trees. After hanging out with xAmy (sometimes lurker here) tree covered backyard yesterday, I realize that I need high shade to keep things cooler!!! Plus they are so beautiful. Her back garden is lovely and quirky and fun.

Hoping that y'all can help me with some suggestions! First of all, the first 'Tier' will be all natives of taller growth - I need a mixture of trees: some that can tolerate much drier soils, some that can handle seasonal flooding but also drought.

I'm going to replace the tulip poplar and already have one of it's babies to go in for the fall. Can anyone tell me more about the height (in feet) of mature Shagbark Hickory and also how Chinkapin oak's might favor in these conditions? I would like to add another one or two oaks that are drought tolerant. Will probably also consider another pecan tree or two.

Medium size native trees on the list so far are: Red Bud

Carolina Silverbell (do they re-seed a lot?), Sourwood (*moderate), Chinquapin

Small native trees (treelike shrubs): Grancy Greybeard,

Button Bush, Dogwood, Yapon Holly, Possum Haw Holly

You can see I really need more evergreen trees too, and fur trees for wind breaks, habitat and beauty. I really need to restore some habitat here.

I appreciate all your help. I'm not that much up on trees but am trying!

FL

Comments (20)

  • laylaa
    14 years ago

    mid level ideas - serviceberry (so many cultivars, plant lots, they are great) are lovely in fall, often reds and have berries for birds, so you get singing to top it off.

    Parsley hawthorn can take shade, red persistent berry, winter interest and more birds and singing. Leaf is different looking, lighter color than oaks so adds texture. Yellow fall color.

    Some of the native viburnums are good mid level small trees, Viburnum nudum (Possumhaw), Viburnum rufidulum (Rusty Blackhaw) both can be tree formed and again, more birds, more singing.

    You can't plant enough dogwood for habitat but thankfully there are so many out there.

    Farkleberry can be tree formed but grows slow. Great fall color, great habitat plant.

    Paw paw - which comes in some nice dwarfs, can take understory and is butterfly host plant, food for wildlife.

  • Iris GW
    14 years ago

    Tulip poplar is a good, fast growing canopy tree - so that's a good selection.

    Shumard oak (Quercus shumardii) is also a good and relatively fast growing canopy tree. Others include Red oak (Q. rubra) and Swamp white oak (Q. bicolor). The tried and true water oak (Q. nigra) is considered a fast grower too.

    One tree that can handle both moist and dry conditions would be Sycamore which naturally grows on moist streambanks. Bald cypress would be another.

    Evergreen tree suggestions: wax myrtle, carolina cherry laurel (may be a heavy reseeder - do some research), sweetbay magnolia, American holly ('Savannah' is a nice cultivar), Florida anise (for shady areas), mountain laurel and rhododendron (both of which can be small trees eventually).

    Other ideas: Red buckeye and bottlebrush buckeye, and who doesn't love a devil's walking stick (Aralia spinosa)! Now that's quirky.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Aralia spinosa

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  • girlgroupgirl
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks for your suggestions!
    Esh, I'm worried about some oaks. There has been noticed oak death within the city, especially swamp oaks from the drought. My three standing oaks are swamp oaks and I'm currently having them treated by arborguard. One is in what was a frequently wet area (by rushing water, which is damaging and exposing roots) and the other two are in very dry areas (soon to be close to watershed areas).
    I've tried Wax Myrtle here, every single one has died. Don't ask me why? They hate this particular yard. One of my clients has several and we've had the opposite problem! They LOVE her yard and are suckering everywhere, which makes me very wary....and the carolina cherry is my #1 scourge. I dislike this one even more than Tree Of Satan. It's one of those (sort of like spiderwort) natives that is perfect in the right place, but I do not want a colony of these trees and have been taking them out for years. They seem to grow right smack where you do not want them!
    I've been looking at American Holly - I need evergreen holly around the edges of the fencing for my "protection barrier". Since we are limited in fence size, I'd like to have plants that would make people think twice about hopping the fence (so I'd also like some cultivars like Slim Jim if I can find them) - I'd like yellow berry cultivars as well. The Aralia is also one of those plants that would work well for this purpose. I'd use non-natives in the back yard too, but I am much more familiar with non-native ornamental small trees so I didn't ask for a list of those (such as the nicely unfriendly flying dragon orange with big fat spikes!).
    Esh, do you know anything about Red Bay? I had not heard of it before I started looking into some trees.

  • Iris GW
    14 years ago

    Well, ok, those were just some ideas and you clearly have good reasons for steering clear of several of them! :)

    I have a red bay - got it a couple of years ago at Chattahoochee Nature Center. It has been extremely slow growing for me, but it has handsome leaves and it is evergreen.

    There is also Hemlock to consider, but I have heard that the wooly adelgid pest is already in Atlanta (perhaps thanks to weekend hikers that brought back on their clothes from the mountains). However, if you only have one, they may not find you ....

    Lots of good holly cultivars and a yellow berried would be way cool, I agree.

  • llink2
    14 years ago

    The Forest Pansy Redbud is a gorgeous tree, and is holding up well here for us so far (we planted two this spring). We also planted an Allegeny serviceberry, which seems to be struggling, but that I still have hope for. A sweetbay magnolia that we planted as a little whippet, more or less on a whim, has done great - it even gave up a few of those wonderful smelling little bloosoms for us.

    Lori

  • mayland
    14 years ago

    GGG, on the advice of posters here, I planted a Magnolia Tripetala (umbrella magnolia) and a Magnolia macrophylla var. Asheii in spring. They both like shade. I love them, they have big tropical-looking leaves (not evergreen though).

    I got them both at the Fernbank native plant sale -- they also had quite a few other trees, all in good condition and for reasonable prices (i paid $20 for 3-gal pots). I also got a Silverbell (2-winged) and Redbud there. They will be having another sale in Sept.

    I have a button-bush planted in part-shade. It was planted last year, but has not flowered this year, so I'm wondering if its too shady for it -- you might want to put in a sunnier spot if you get one.

    Maybe also oak-leaf hydrangea, witchhazel, Edgeworthia, or winterberry (ilex verticillata) for your understory layer? Doesn't help on needing evergreens though...

  • groundcover
    14 years ago

    Southern sugar maple?

    Here is a link that might be useful: sugar maple

  • nandina
    14 years ago

    Silverbell is a beautiful tree. I had one planted in the shade of a very old southern pine which was struck by lightening and had to be removed, exposing the Silverbell to hot sun. Much to my surprise it has thrived and grown well, adapting to the new growing situation without a sign of distress. I would put this one on your list of possible candidates.

  • girlgroupgirl
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks everyone for your help!
    I need more TALL tree suggestions. Everyone has given great mid-level trees, I need TALL trees to be the overstory. I look out the front and I'm cooking. My yard is, for many reasons several degrees warmer and often much drier than yards just a mile from my own, I think it's because I'm so close to larger paved in areas, the heat is just hovering.

    And now that I see how hot it is, I'm thinking that I also need another tree out front - I have MANY small trees in the front but no tall shade tree, I'm just not sure where to put it yet...

    What are the overstory trees at your home. I think some of us don't think about them much as garden features because they were there when we moved in, but seeing my friends' yard the other day, I realized the immense beauty they add to her yard and how important they are to the landscape she's worked so yard on.

  • Iris GW
    14 years ago

    At my house it is oaks, tulip poplars, a few pines and one gi-normous sourwood (for those of you that think of it as a medium tree!). I suppose I might have a few red maples that qualify as canopy trees here too. I don't have any big ones, but there are some canopy size hickories here in the neighborhood too.

    Get more tulip poplars - not only do they get tall, but they grow fast!

  • girlgroupgirl
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Thanks Esh. I definately want another Sourwood, mine went missing after the tornado, and I think the machines ran it over - I was trying to save it!
    I've read they can be either taller or medium sized depending on how much they like their location. I plan to place mine where it would be welcomed at either a large or small stage, and both my neighbors and I want our tulip poplars back. I just love that they provide high shade without being too shady.
    I wish pecans grew a bit faster.
    I have a few Japanese maples, but I am thinking of being very careful about choosing a larger native maple only because they are so hard to garden under. Where I was thinking I might have a nice place (over a greenhouse for shade in summer, sun in winter) my neighbors are planning a vegetable garden, so I need to be careful not to shade them out.

  • Iris GW
    14 years ago

    You can definitely have one of my babies - I have a couple potted up right now ... and a serviceberry too!

  • nippersdad
    14 years ago

    I have not seen any mention of Blackgums! Beautiful, large trees with truly blood colored foliage in the fall (They also provide little blue berries for the birds!). They grow fairly quickly and are pretty tolerant of drought conditions.

    Something we put in last year was a Princeton American Elm. Unbelievably fast grower and was bred to have resistance to Dutch Elm disease. There really is a reason they were so widely planted as street trees and would provide high shade for your front yard relatively quickly. They are also reputed to be very tolerant of city pollution.

    No mention of Red Cedar, either. Grows quickly, immune to virtually everything and has a nice grayish color which contrasts nicely with the dark greens of other trees. I have mixed them into our overstory oaks/maples etc. with podocarps, firs and deodars for a nice tapestry of color and texture. They give good cover for camellias from winter burn.

    Any kind of magnolia does well! We have planted virtually every kind we could find and they have distinguished themselves into overstory and understory nicely over the years. The Sweet bays smell particularly wonderful and are a good open, midsized tree without too much spread. They tend to get very thin in winter, however. The Little Gems have the advantage of blooming until frost without getting overly large.

    American Hollies are magnificent, but are difficult to get started for some reason. Once one is happy, however, they will take off. Mary Nells or Oakleafs might be a good compromise.

    River Birch, of course, is incredibly fast growing and would do well in your seasonally wet areas. They have beautiful yellow leaves in Fall, nice open shade in summer and gorgeous exfoliating bark.

    Finally, esh had a good suggestion in bald cypresses. We have one that is always commented upon by those who come over, especially in the Fall when the needles turn golden and carpets the ground around it. A truly beautiful tree and a fast grower. As he mentioned they do well in both dry sites and wet. The only difference to my eye is speed of growth and density of needles/boughs.

  • satellitehead
    14 years ago

    i just had the same dilemma, since we're about to plant two trees.

    fast growing shade trees that are suitable for our urban environment include Shumard Oak, Nuttall Oak, Tulip Poplar, American Elm, and (I think?) Patriot Elm to name a couple of fast resilient growers.

    when i say fast growing, i the city planted a couple of 10-15gal Nuttall Oaks in front of our office in '06ish (between 8th and 10th on Peachtree NE), and they're already upwards of 30-35' tall. Trees Atlanta did the planting.

    if you want some direct advice, I have Greg Levine's contact info - shoot me an email or message and i'll pass along. he's the guy I spoke with to give the above recommendations. he can give great feedback - they have sales in the fall, and we plan to buy then.

  • satellitehead
    14 years ago

    Sorry, it wasn't Patriot Elm, it was Princeton. I just realized it after reading nippersdad's post.

  • girlgroupgirl
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Hey S. Head. Those seem to pretty much be my favored choices. I realized the guys down the street also planted some trees which are now fairly tall - good selections. Robby from Trees Atlanta is my neighbor. I am planning to get some trees from them, I hope. I want larger than 3 gallon - I want more like 10-15 size. Trees Atlanta does not plant in your back yard. They volunteer front yard and street tree plantings. That's OK. Many of my neighbors are volunteers for them, and I bet I can get some help! Some of my other neighbors will also need to do some planting. We're so naked out here!!

  • Iris GW
    14 years ago

    Here's a link to the GNPS resource page that has a copy of Greg Levine's presentation at our symposium in February.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Tough Native Trees for urban sites

  • satellitehead
    14 years ago

    I love me some Trees Atlanta folks.

    GGG, we organized a neighborhood-wide planting here back in '05, I think. It was pretty easy! The south end of our neighborhood was clearcut and developed by David "logs down" Logsdon (argh, don't get me started), and had no shadetrees at all. It was really sad =(

    But yeah, good folks. I need to volunteer for them on some invasives cleanup projects in the near future.

  • bagsmom
    14 years ago

    Hey y'all, happy fourth! I didn't have time to read every post, so sorry if I duplicate, but GGG, have you thought about Mahonia for your protective barrier? I used it for the same purpose -- I also put it near a stone wall that I don't want the kids hopping over. It is so interesting, and is doing well, except in one area that seems to have some funky soil disease. (Stuff dies of a sort of leaf burning. Kills my mahonia and oakleaf hydrangea.) But I digress.... the mahonia has a really interesting shape, birds love the berries -- I think you can make jelly out of them too (but I'm not sure! Don't try without researching!) The flowers are so fragrant and a real treat when they come out at the end of winter!

    Mahonia leaves are deadly sharp! Especially when they have fallen off and dried. I'm talking little daggers!!!!!!!! Bled like the proverbial stuck pig the other day!

    I hope everyone is going to enjoy some fireworks!

  • cyrus_gardner
    14 years ago

    Tulip tree, Hickory (They grow pretty fast)
    Ash, Sgar Maple, Red Maple, Box Elder, sweet gum
    Wild black cerry, red bud, dogwood

    All above are native around here.

    Bradford pair (fast growing, short lived)

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