I think this points out something very important about HMF: the members who use it are asked to submit information about the roses they grow and where they grow them. If you grow a specific variety of Hybrid Tea (or whatever) that shows significantly better Winter hardiness than most others, then by all means submit a Comment on the item's Comments tab to indicate that you have grown "Rose X" in zone 5 with no protection, etc etc. The Comment's tab is one of the most useful options on HMF as long as we the growers submit our personal experiences for others to learn from. As for the default Zone listings for many roses on HMF: the information should be viewed in much the same way you look at the Manufacturer's Suggested List Price when buying a car or a Television.

Thanks Kate--I guess I've been very much on the fence about whether they'll tolerate the cold here, will just have to see I think. The flowers look so gorgeous I think I have to try anyway, so I was going to put in 4-5 and see. I'm essentially zone 6 in the backyard, so maybe I'll have success with them if you have. Do you winter protect? My neighbor did lose some HTs from year to year but he planted the bud union above ground and didn't winter protect. My Austins always seem significantly hardier and I was hoping these, although marketed as HTs, were more mixed lineage and would be hardier too. The beds are a bit elevated, which hurts cold-tolerance but helps keep things well-drained. But I can bury the bud unions and throw on some bark mulch or leaves in the fall, which may help. Okay, Peter is officially on the list, and I think I MUST have Liv and Yves Piaget--the flowers look too wonderful to pass up. Every weekend the ground stays workable I keep fixing up the beds to accommodate more roses...so now I have room for another order from Roses Unlimited!

Yes. PT = Poncirus Trifoliata. I mixed some in with other dishes and some I ate by itself. It does have seeds, and it's a powerful taste. If you like bland fruit, I wouldn't recommend it. Part of it is that some friends have recommended PT as a rootstock, so PT is a "beach head" in the citrus area that may or may not develop by grafting on, say, yuzu, or Thomasville Citrangequat. We have had new record heat here each year for the last 3 years. I'm 52 and I've never seen something like this here, so it could develop that way too. John S PDX OR

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I should have included a bit of back information that would better give orientation about my overall objectives. This first year or two, my main objective is to define the borders of the porch for my two large dogs. Until now, we had a pad and grass up to the pad (pad is the same pre- and post- porch construction) and they could exit the pad anywhere. Now, I want them to get used to exiting the pad onto the sidewalk in the center, because elsewhere will now be beds (and mud and mess and plants to be stomped). That's why I've bombed the front with the cinnamon ferns, to make a sort of visual railing while the dogs re-learn their exit, and while the beds age in with better soil and I get some other plants going (hostas, etc.). For the first year or two. It will be no problem to move the ferns around the corner when that time comes. I've always wanted a mass of ferns on this eastern facing side: My second objective is to create a streamlined mow line. The grass is maintained with a 60 inch deck mower so whatever bed edge I develop needs to allow the mower to move along it easily (I guess rather than undulating what I was trying to get to was smooth curves rather than corners, for mowing purposes). Third objective is LEAST maintenance from a hand weeding perspective. I know it won't be zero, but I'd like to have it controllable without being consuming. Fourth objective is "pretty." I'm not bothered with "curb appeal" in general as the only viewers are anyone coming up the driveway; this is not seen from the street. Eventually, I would like to grow and develop in a pretty foundation border. I got the ferns cheap and they will help my first objective. As I can, I will add more plants and soil amendments, so that is what I'm asking for - where do I EVENTUALLY want to go with this, etc. I appreciate all your inputs! Please add as you have thoughts!