I have 'Old Blush' and 'Clementina Carbonieri'; they're both fine roses, very nearly unkillable, and fragrant. CC is very healthy for me and very beautiful. OB is just a bunch of pink flowers much of the time, floriferous but not particularly elegant; it can also get both mildew and black spot. Every once in a while it startles me with large, full, shapely, beautiful blooms; and then there are the times when it's the only rose in flower in the garden. I don't know the others, though I bought 'Arethusa' myself this fall.
Good luck with your new roses!
Melissa
P.S. I would not put the cool pink flowers of 'Old Blush' right next to the warm sunset tones of 'Clementina Carbonieri'. Just a thought.

Because you have a small garden, I'd suggest, instead of Clementina C. which will take up a great deal of space in a smaller garden.
'Mme. Antoine Mari', which is a very elegant Tea, In N. California it can be kept to c. 4' tall by nearly as wide.
'Le Vesuve' is another medium sized Tea,in North Ca. with a richer hue of pink than many, and very elegant buds.
'Westside Road Cream Tea' is one of the smaller Teas with very pretty foliage, and also grows to c. 4' tall in N.Calif. helpmefind.com/roses has photos of all these roses under 'search',
I consider Polyantha roses to be Old Garden Roses, even though the A.R.S. does not, because their lineage descent is identical to Noisette class in that both descend from a wild rose species (though different ones, R. moschata and R. multiflora) crossed with an Old Garden Rose class, China.
The original 'Mme. Cecille Brunner' from 1880, on its' own roots will grow to be c. 4' tall here, and the blossoms appear much like the Old Garden Tea it was bred from, only dainty in size, M.C.B. is darling in bud vases, and is also called 'The Sweetheart Rose'. I'd grow it beside, or in back of 'The Gift' a white Polyantha, for a romantic display of pink and white roses, perhaps with companion plants of purple Veronica or Lavender.
I grow my Old Garden Roses with historic companion cultivars, such as Parma violets, and Pinks, from Canyon Ranch nursery.
Best wishes for a lovely rose garden.
Luxrosa

I'd just add that, given time, 'Le Vesuve' can get to be pretty big.
I agree with Lux about the Polyanthas. They're wonderful roses, and very much "Old Rose" in character.
Beside that, they're bloom-producing power houses.

I agree on 'Mlle. Cecile Brunner,' and I desperately love the beautiful apricot 'Perle d'Or.' The two are closely related, and much alike in habit.
If you want a spot of strong color, take a look at 'Lady Ann Kidwell.' It's another Poly-Tea in that same range, and never out of bloom here.

Check out 'Orleans Rose,' and maybe 'Lady Reading.'
I like both very much.
'The Gift' was a bit too much of a gift for me. She's viciously prickly, and a bit pushy in the garden. (But I agree about her beauty, and she makes the loveliest little crimson hips).

Sophie's Perpetual is incredibly beautiful, and disease-resistant. But it's a puzzle whether it wants to be a large or a small plant.

If you can bear a bit of red, check into either 'Louis Phillipe,' or the Bermuda rose, "Emmie Gray."

Jeri

Thanks.
I will look into Plyanhas. Thanks for helping me overt disaster/failure/lesson.

FJ

Ducher is a white china that does not get real big for me, and is healthy. Decent fragrance too.

The Old Blush I had was almost five feet tall and it did mildew fairly often. It's not a rose I'd purchase again. Most of the teas will probably be too large for you. I would also recommend that you look among the polyanthas to choose most of your roses if you have a small garden. They have the old rose look and bloom well.

Ingrid

The Old Blush I had was almost five feet tall and it did mildew fairly often. It's not a rose I'd purchase again.

*** I always hate to say this, because Old Blush is such an important rose ...
but in my garden, it mildews at a low level, almost all of the time.
Anything real close to Old Blush, like "Single Pink China," and even my "China From Adina" does this.
What's frustrating about that is that these roses are all clean as a whistle in TX.

But, FWIW, the RED Chinas are disease-free here.

Jeri

FJ, I saw Mrs Dudley Cross last Saturday that had been in the ground about 4 years, and it was only about 4' tall. I was quite surprised since everything is supposed to get so big here. I bought it just for the size reason.

Hermosa is a beautiful rose. I have 3 in the ground about a year so they're still young. They have beautiful cupped form, color and smell - and they're supposed to stay about 3'. Mine aren't that tall yet.

I have Old Blush but you've already been warned away from that one. I have Mme Antoine Rebe (she's on Vintage's $7.50 list.) She's got her first flower now since I put her in the ground. She has the cherriest red & long bud. I don't know if this is typical but when it opened, it was semi-double with the inside of the guard petals also red, but the second row of petals were a mixed pink. All the photos I've seen of her are completely red, and when she flowered in the pot, it was red. But it's very pretty anyway.

I've been wanting Sophie's Perpetual for a long time.

Sherry

FJ,

Everything is relative. I live in the Bay Area and find that most roses in my area (two miles from the Bay, sunny and foggy) get large. What is a small garden to you? I consider my garden small compared to some others on this forum. I have just under 5000 sq ft, much of it taken up by a long, small home.

I can make suggestions for you, if I know more about where you live in CA (north, south, near water, inland, etc).

Also, I have some large roses that I keep on the smaller side. Luanne, who posts quite frequently on this site, has a very small area, keeps some very large roses tightly pruned and they produce an abundance of blooms. So, what you order can also depend on how much time you want to spend in the garden tending.

Chinas do want to get big. You might do well with some roses that get big, but stay contained. For example, my Marchessa (aka Jacque Cartier) stays straight and tall along with my Yolande D'Aragon, both from Vintage.

You can purchase one of the most beautiful and easy to grow teas, Lady Hillingdon. Against advice on this forum, I prune mine about 3 times a year (first let it grow for about 3 years) with no problem. It is a wonderful rose.

Prosperity, a white hybrid musk, grows tall and does not spread out in my garden.

If you call Vintage, Greg or Vita give great advice.

And, if you live in the Bay Area, please join us for our next Dirt Day at Vintage. It will be held in the spring and Luanne usually posts an announcement. You will learn a great deal and have a better time.

Carol

I have CC in a pot and I cut it back - and I prune it severely before I go back up north for 2 months in the summer - and it has stayed under 4 feet for me. I think teas and chinas will withstand more pruning than one would think, at least mine do. This is one of the few teas I can actually smell. :-)

Another vote for Ducher,which is supremely lovely and a nice compact plant. Others-- Mystic Beauty / Souvenir de la Malmaison, Rosette deLizy. Many teas and chinas in a climate they love can put on amazing growth in just one or two seasons-- Old Blush, Monsieur Tillier, Maggie, Spice, Georgetown Tea, Mrs. B. R. Cant-- all gigantic! And looking at your current choices, I just have to say that you'd probably also love Comtesse du Cayla and Perle d'Or.

>> If you call Vintage, Greg or Vita give great advice.

*** Now, THAT is the best advice EVER.

Jeri

Since it is after hours now, maybe one of you can help.

I guess I always liked Cecile Brunner, but I thought it is a non recurrent huge climber. Am I wrong? Is there 'petite' re blooming bush form too?

Sorry, I am ignorant on OGR.

Thanks,
FJ

GREAT question!

The original 'Mlle. Cecile Brunner' is a nice, continuous-blooming Polyantha.
If you have a hundred years or so, it can get up to 6-7 ft., but in your lifetime, it will likely make 4 ft.
Nice and compact, and a complete delight.

The big ol' climber is a sport of the original, and you really don't want that.
Go for it, and for 'Perle d'Or,' as well.
You will NOT regret either choice.

NOTE: There is also 'Spray Cecile Brunner,' with is a bit taller than the original, and tends to hold its sprays up a bit above the bush.
I PERSONALLY prefer the original, but that is MHO.

Jeri

Comtesse du Cayla got very big, very fast in my home garden. It's sizable in the cemetery, too, but that plant is 15 years old. Mine is four yrs old, and easily five feet tall and would be eight feet wide if I let it. Nice rose, but the other gripe I have is that my blossoms crisp at the edges when its hot. I'm a water miser at home, and the cemetery CdC doesn't have that problem since it's in a bed that gets virtually flooded when we water.

The Old Blush that we have in the cemetery has only a touch of mildew in cool shoulder seasons, and blooms almost all year long. It's a wonderful rose for Sacramento (although Jeri also wonders if we have an especially good clone).

If you are near Sacramento, you can come see many of these roses in the cemetery. The San Jose Heritage Rose Garden has almost all of them, too. In Sacramento, we will be selling some of them at our Apr 18 Open Garden, too. I'm usually there on Wed and Sat mornings and always glad to share what I know about the roses.
Anita

Here is a link that might be useful: Sacramento Historic Rose Garden

Thanks everyone. My list is made thanks to your suggestions and educations.

Cecile Brunner, Perle d'Or and Sophie's Perpetual.

I am open to a small red one to replace Showbiz with too.

FJ

PS. After getting my bands, what do I do with them? Do I Plant them out or keep them in pots for few season?

Anita, thanks for posting the link to the cemetery website. It was cool to see all the pictures. I've been on the fence about Blanche Lafitte, but I may be starting to lean after seeing those pictures.

Eric

Eric, in our climate, Blanche Lafitte is simply one of the best. Even though it's classed as a Bourbon, Gregg Lowery says there is a lot of Noisette in it. I think it would be hardy in Cincinnati but don't know for sure.
Anita

How small?

I have a particular fondness for 'White Pearl In Red Dragon's Mouth.' It's a great landscape rose, which is never out of bloom.
NOT something I cut for vases. It's semi-double, and fleeting. But the blooms get better with every year, and it is tough as nails.
Got a great story, too. :-)
Check it out in HelpMeFind.

Jeri

Okay she isn't a China or Tea rose, but you really should have SOUVENIR DE LA MALMAISON (Bourbon, 1843, light pink). Never gets too big, gorgeous flowers, wonderful fragrance, decent vase life, and a good repeater. She can ball in cool, moist climates but with enough heat those silky blooms always open. So if your summers are hot then I say go for it. BTW, Souvenir de la Malmaison ties with Reine des Violettes as my favorite Old Garden Rose. The Antique Rose Emporium (http://antiqueroseemporium.com) in Texas sells a particularly good specimen.

Image of SdlM by ArchDuke-Z7b/8a-DFW-TX at Hortiplex.

Here is a link that might be useful: SdlM at HelpMeFind Roses

St. David's is a beautiful single red Bermuda Mystery rose, if you want a splash of color. It can be kept to a manageable size, blooms constantly, has nice foliage, and never has disease or insect problems. I think your polyantha choices are excellent, and I feel St. David's would look good in a border with them. I wouldn't put him right next to Sophie's Perpetual though.

I would definitely pot your bands up for a while so they can develop a good root system before going into the ground. Vintage will include instructions on this, and they will also help you out over the phone.

Gosh, I still need to make my order. I've just been so busy getting ready to visit family up north for Christmas.

Sandy

You guys rock. Thank you for all the suggestions and educations.

The red rose is to replace showbiz that is between two Christopher Marlow. It is a wonderful color and size, except mine is a DOD.
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The cecille Brunner and sothies's prepatual will be in the sided yard, between the agapanthus and keep Peter Mayler company. The area is too shady for The McCartney Rose and Aromatherapy.

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Agapanthuses will be thined as needed.

Stay warm and happy holidays.

FJ