Hybrid Musk and Musk

15 years ago

I was browsing through Vintage online and wondering if I would like a band, and what the shipping cost is. It seems to me that a Musk is not as good as a Hybrid Musk, but a Bourbon is better than a Hybrid Bourbon. (Why don't I read a book about this?)

I want some roses that I could trade cuttings with others online, and roses that not everyone has. Looking at the Hybrid Musk group, I have Penelope and Ballerina. Both are super performers for me, and can almost turn into a tree.

I would like opinions on other Hybrid Musks. What does the term, Hybrid Musk mean to you, and what is the disease resistance (black spot)? Does it rebloom fast for you, and are there disadvantages to growing it in Oklahma.

Some that look very interesting to me are: Autumn Delight, Sally Holmes, THisbe, Yesterday, Red Belinda, Mozart, Daybreak, Cornelia VI.

Sammy

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Comments (9)

greybird
15 years ago
The cost for me here on the Texas/Oklahoma border is 16.50 shipping + 8.00 Ag inspection fee for 1-4 bands. I always order at least 4 as the cost is the same for 4 as it is 1. The bands are usually good sized, but I always pot them up when I receive them in spring and plant in the ground Oct-Nov. Vintage is my favorite on-line seller, I think you will be pleased with the quality.
mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
15 years ago
To me, Hybrid Musk = Hybrid multiflora. Disease resistance varies from good to terrible, with chlorosis being a real problem with some breeding lines. (that's from the multiflora)

If you aren't sure about the bands, and want to play around with cuttings, I'd try playing with the cuttings first. They are really DIY bands, after all. It's a lot cheaper to experiment on extra cuttings than expensive bands, and the information gotten is at least as useful.
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The history of the musk rose in America was written up in an article by Marie Butler, in the Proceedings of the Ninth International Conference on Heritage Roses, at Charleston, 2001. The Heritage Rose Foundation website sells that paperback book. Also there is the history of our DNA research with that rose and early Noisettes. As I recall, most of the U.S. finds in some way involved the Burwell family, who apparently spread around the "family" rose. As far as the types go -- the double form often sports back to single. We have several in our gardens, and I think every one of them, at some point, has thrown a branch of single-form flowers. On the other hand, the single form very seldom sports to the double form. It has happened and has been observed, but I've not seen it. And we're aware of two instances of the common double form sporting to the more double 'Temple' form. I've never heard of Temple sporting back to any other form, but it would not surprise me if it did so now and then. So if you see a listing from a collector who keeps good records of the provenance of their musks, you'll find Crenshaw Double, Crenshaw Single, Elmwood Double, Elmwood Single, Gate Tayloe Double, Gate Tayloe single, etc. In virtually every case, this is a matter of there having been one original double-flowered plant on the collection site, that had sported some single-flowered branches, which have been propagated to produce all single-flowered plants.
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luxrosa
15 years ago
R. moschata is a fine rose, that has a 3 month bloom season, from august 1 through Halloween and then some. Gorgeous leaves and growth habit and its' fragrance has a wafting trait that can spread several feet from the bush.
vintage also sells several remontant musk roses that I have yet to track down when I'm there on dirt day, but I'd love to see "Reverend Seidel" in person.
I love 'Secret Garden Climbing Musk' (remontant, but of unknown breeding)
Hybrid Musk were once bred and named 'Pemberton Roses' in England by the man , whom I believe, bred many of the best in that class. I've grown c. a dozen Hybrid Musks and my favorites include
'Cornelia' coppery glints on pink, stamens show on some blooms.
'Callisto' yellow and fragrant, musky-rose.
'Maid Marion'
'Penelope'
as well as
'Queen of the Musks' red buds, open to creamy white to light pink roses.
and
'Bubble Bath' for its scent.
Lux.
luxrosa
15 years ago
A few Hybrid Musks have a more modern appearance, to me and I checked their lineages to see why, then saw that several were bred from Hybrid Tea roses,
'Pax' has a Hybrid Tea parent, 'Sunburst'
'Felicia' has a H.T. parent, 'Ophelia'.I always felt I should love 'Felicia' more than I do.
'Inspektor Blohm' also has the Hybrid Tea parent, 'Joanna Hill'
' Eva' was bred from the H.T. 'J.C. Thornton'
'Lavender Lassie' has a H.T. grandparent.
I'd choose a Musk over those listed above, or Darlows Enigma, or 'Secret Garden Climbing Musk' for their more natural bloom styles and growth habit.
I've loved 'Callisto' for its' old fashioned frilly blooms and heady scent, and read that it was bred from the Tea-Noisette 'Reve d' Or'.
Luxrosa
catsrose
15 years ago
I love the hybrid musks; they are relatively bs resistant, good rebloom if not continuous, are mostly fragrant, and they tolerate shade well. Most of mine are Pembertons, but I have some of the newer ones as well. Most of mine have come from Vintage as bands, which I always plant immediately. I haven't lost one yet. Vintage is also my favorite supplier.
jerijen
15 years ago
Some of the Lens HMs are pretty good, too.
We have grown Walferdange for years, and there are many others.

Jeri
erasmus_gw
15 years ago
Mozart was a good bloomer for me but too large for the spot and got more bs than my other hm's. Yesterday is the most compact one for me. It has pretty good rebloom, gets some bs but not too bad, and looks something like Lavender Dream but not so big. My Sally Holmes is not very old but it's very pretty..the blooms are BIG and remind me of dogwood with a blush of peach sometimes. It started out with no bs but the 2nd year it was not so clean. Cornelia is beautiful and fragrant but not as fragrant as Felicia.
melissa_thefarm
15 years ago
Whatever their origins, the Hybrid Musks, and I have in mind the Pemberton roses in particular, are among the most graceful and luxuriant roses ever bred, fragrant, healthy, and easy to grow. I must admit I don't know the Lambertianas and the Lens roses, so you could fairly say I can't speak for the whole group. But a good plant of 'Cornelia' or 'Francesca' (two particular favorites) during its fall bloom is among the most beautiful sights the rose world has to offer. 'Felicia' grows less well here than most, and I have to say that, if it didn't have the fragrance it has, I wouldn't bother with it; but it is one of the most exquisitely scented roses I've ever encountered.
gnabonnand
15 years ago
I have to chime in on most any hybrid musk thread, because there are two Pemberton HM's that are among my favorites of all roses ... Cornelia & Nur Mahal.
Melissa summed my feelings up well regarding those two when she said ... "among the most graceful and luxuriant roses ever bred, fragrant, healthy, and easy to grow".

Randy

Hybrid Musk and Musk

Comments (9)

greybird

mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)

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