I am not very comp savvy but if I saw that I would not place the order over the internet. I would call them and place my order over the phone. To me it sounds like there secure section, the page where you enter you credit card is not working or is not secure. When you are on the page were you enter your credit card number you should see an s after the HTTP in your browser, it looks like HTTPs://www then name of site , the s is for secure. I have orderd from Hortico before by internet a few years ago and they do have nice roses. Mine came healthy and are still thriving in my garden after 4 years.

Carrie

Not only should you see an "s" in the address like carrie says, but also you should see a "lock" at the top of the screen near your address bar.

I would be hesitant on ordering from Hortico regardless, as you'll probably end up with raspberry bushes instead of roses. Hortico's response will be "hey, they both have thorns, so what's the difference"?

I agree with mgleason ... I have been waiting almost 5 years for a rose order. Finally was told they did not even have the roses. If Hortico was the only place to buy roses, I would not grow them.

You'll see that warning with quite a few webpages. It just means they have lousy programmers. The webpage is usually still secure but they haven't updated their certificate. If you really want to order from Hortico then I wouldn't let that warning stop you.

But I don't recommend ordering from Hortico. Their roses are really small, half of them aren't actually available, and they don't have a good return policy (you have to pay shipping on replacements). Try a good place like Palatine roses instead. Their roses are three times of the size and much healthier and more vigorous.

This message to customers is found on Hortico's home page:

10/15/2010: Important Note: We're working to get our website SSL certificate renewed. You may get some warnings that it expired on 10/14. You are safe to continue past the warning or you may try one of our other methods to submit payment info for orders. In any case, we hope to have it resolved within one-two days. We're sorry for the inconvenience.

I say wait a few days and if it is fixed by then, go ahead and order (if you still want to after hearing about their puny plants and other problems).

Kate

Hey I'm a big Hortico fan because they are often the only source for a rose. I have several great roses that I wouldn't have without them. Very true however that you may not get what you ordered but I can live with that.

Hortico has a lousy reputation, your throwing your money away ordering from them. Now if you enjoy gambling thats a different matter.

Heed this warning plus all the others you can find on the internet and beyond. This is not a reputable provider and hasn't been for many years. It's past time to say no, take your lousy business practices and go away.

Sounds like a echo chamber! Has everyone dissing Hortico actually ordered from them? I don't know how many roses H grows but Pickering has 800 so it has to be more maybe 1,000. Tell me how you would keep track of 1,00 roses keep them in stock and all labeled properly, etc. And for $15 each! Perhaps if they raised their prices they could hire more people and might be able to keep track of everything. Then we're dealing with living things another complication of this business.

Hortico carries many roses that are not other wise available here. I ordered from them multiple times and never got mislabled plant, so it is not so bad. Many of my gallicas came from them, as well a Canary Bird and many others. The only problem I have with them is that when you order you don't know really if the rose is currently available. You place the order now for spring and than sometime in March get a call or e-mail saying that the rose is not availble. If you could place you order somewhere else you would not loose this rose season. But if the rose is only available from Hortico, why not to try, even if you get this message you didn't miss anything,
The quality of roses is good in my opinion and selection is very good if you like hardy oGRS, species, etc.
Olga

I agree with Jim and Olga, I have ordered from them when a rose I wanted wasn't available anywhere else. Everything was fine. The plant heathy and correct and larger that those I have gotten from Heirloom. I'm not dissing Heirloom just comparing size.
Nancy

It's not fair to compare Heirloom and Hortico.

Heirloom sells rooted soft to medium hard wood cuttings, which means that they are own root roses, grown for less than a year.
Hortico sells roses budded onto rootstocks and grown out for at least a year in the fields in Ontario (and whereever else they buy from). Ontario growing conditions are not comparable to California. Ontario rootstocks include both multiflora and sometimes canina and these rootstocks may do a lot better in non-alkalin soils, which is why Pickering and Palatine are favorites of some of us- because they also use these rootstocks.

Jim asks how you do things like keep track of inventory and afix correct labels. Well, in Hortico's case, you DON'T. Perhaps that's Jim's point, but can failures to keep track of their roses and label them properly be construed as justifiction for haphazard business practices, deplorable customer service & vendor communiques that often are brusque, sarcastic, contemptuous? It's worth noting, too, that Hortico's vaunted catalog listings of a 1000+ roses does NOT mean (nor has it ever meant) that each of those 1000+ varieties is actually in Hortico's inventory (or ever has been, or ever will be).

There are real good reasons why it sounds like an echo chamber here. Over the years, we've read countless complaints posted about Hortico and dead roses, mislabled roses, no roses . . . I've paid good money for all of those, including the no roses. As for some of the dead roses, John at Hortico, after quizzing me via email, authoritatively pronounced that any moron would know that I killed the roses because they "were not DORMANT ENOUGH" to withstand the overnight soak I subjected them to. His printed instructions do, afterall, pointedly & very clealy specify a 20-minute soak -- not 19, not 21. Anything other than a 20-minute soak and the sad result might well be that your Hortico roses will keel over -- as in become permanently, irrevocably dormant. (That's the gospel according to Hortico John.) I've learned the hard way that a good indication that your Hortico roses may not be dormant enough to survive a 20+ minute soak is if they arrive looking dessicated, brittle, brownish . . . ie, if they actually look rather dead. For those, you need to haul out your stopwatch before plunging their roots into water.

I shudder to think of all the years that bareroots (on both Huey and Multiflora) languished asoaking in my garage for days and days and days only to burst into growth once finally planted. Thank God most suppliers have consistently shipped plants that were just dormant enough for a gardener like me.

Yes, Hortico has its faults but I still prefer the world with Hortico over the world without Hortico.

Every year the Hortico topic comes up and I always hesitate to give my personal review because Hortico is not popular here. It seems it is ok to blast this company but not any of the others...ever. I have ordered from pretty much all of them, with good and bad experiences from time to time from all of them. Hortico to date has only sent me one mislabel, and I have gotten mislabels from some of the 'favorite' companies too. Hortico's plants are small, no doubt, so if someone wants whoppers they aren't your company. I know some here have not had a good experience with this company and their complaints are valid but not everyone's was horribly negative. There are some of us who have wonderful, correctly-named roses that grace our gardens that we got from Hortico because we couldn't get them from anywhere else. You don't always get what you order, true. There are getting to be fewer and fewer places to buy roses, so like Mike, I'm just glad we still have Hortico, warts and all.

I prefer to have my warts removed.

Amanda, I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding warts and wart removal. If Hortico can competently provide roses to its Canadian customers and those in the northernmost tier of the U.S. (like celestialrose), then those folks should be their niche market, and their available inventory should be tailored to the needs/limitations of that market. Too bad they don't focus their attention there, and refrain from attempts to foist other substandard/nonexistant products and service on the rest of us.

How can there be any question, much less any excuse, regarding Hortico's lamentable and longstanding record of horrific service to so many? Celestialrose, do you know of other suppliers whose negative records approach that of Hortico's? If so, clue us in. Please.

Well put Celestialrose - I'm anxiously awaiting my fall shipment of roses from Hortico, as well as my spring orders from Pickering and Palatine. Hortico, with all of it's faults, has added quality to my life for quite some number of years ... in the end, that's how I measure them. It doesn't mean that is how I would run a business.

Windeau, I'm one of those morons who has been skewered by Hortico and then actually gone back to be skewered again. Almost as bad as their plants is the taunting, sarcastic emails they send in reply when you notify them about difficulties with their products and services. Sorry to say, it wasn't the mislabled and/or dead plants that finally got thru to me -- it was their apparent glee in being able to rip me off with impunity. Poorer but wiser. Never again . . .

Well, I have sworn at and sworn off Hortico before. But, because they had roses I couldn't get anywhere else, I have continued ordering. Three years ago, I ordered six and only half lived, but I got a refund. They are now gorgeous roses. For the past two years, I got every thing I ordered and on time. They grew beautifully. I can't explain it. But, maybe they have changed!

For one thing, they now remove a rose from the listing if they are out of it. Now that's a breakthrough! They still need help with their listing - can't seem to tell a hybrid tea from a floribunda, and some of the photos clearly aren't the rose they are describing. It actually could be a good source if they cleaned up their act some more. Don't forget- we are getting short on places to get roses, particularly the hard-to-find ones.

The fact that there's a dwindling number of suppliers gives Hortico a pass of some kind? Gives them permission to keep on keeping on just as they've done in the past?

Snowheather implies that Hortico is a place to go "to get roses, particularly hard-to-find ones." Experience and the loss of hard-earned resources compels me to differ.

Wow the unhappy rose growers here that do not like Hortico!!!! I am wondering if this is a recent thing, like past 4 years. I had no trouble when I ordered from Hortico 4 years ago and it might of been 5 years, it was somewhere in there. They were so nice. I ordered Mellow Yellow and Ice Cream bareroots. I was sent the Ice Cream bareroot and it was very healthy and it is still growing in my yard. I received an e-mail from Hortico telling me that they did not have Mellow Yellow in a bareroot and if I did not mind they would send me a 5 gal potted Mellow Yellow. I replyed and told them I would be more then happy to accept the potted Mellow Yellow, I wanted that rose so I took the potted Mellow Yellow. I know the potted rose was more then the bare root and so was the shipping but they sent it to me at no charge. It came nice and green and healthy!
I even talked to them on the phone once when all that was going on, I talked to a lady but do not remember her name she was very nice.
So, I don't know what has happen in the last 4 to 5 years, did they change owners, management, or maybe they are using a different grower. I have not ordered from them as of yet because I have found all the roses I have been looking for from local nurseries or J & P, Edmunds and David Austin. They do have hard to find roses, but now I am afriad to order from them. Does anyone know when all this started?????
Carrie

I echo Mike's comment. It perfectly reflects my take on Hortico:
"Hortico has its faults but I still prefer the world with Hortico over the world without Hortico".
I have many roses in my garden that came from Hortico. I wouldn't have them otherwise, other nurseries currently carry don't propagate these varieties.

Olga

Carrie,

Are you sue it was Hortico? I would be surprised if an international company were allowed to send a potted plant to the USA.

To summarize: If you can, order from Pickering or Palatine. Order from Hortico only and only if you want a rose that you must, must have, cannot live without and you didn't find it among Pickering's 900 + roses, and you are prepared to wait for that rose - maybe - for 3 or 4 years.

Olga's situation is different. She mostly ordered once bloomers from Hortico, if I am not mistaken. Those`are tougher plants to begin with, and Olga is an outstanding rosarian. So, if only Hortico carried those roses, of course she ordered from them.

But if you just start with mail order, do yourself a favor, and order from Palatine or Pickering and avoid Hortico.

mggleason56, yes it was Hortico. I thought the samething when it came, Hortico is in Canada isn't it, that is who I ordered from. So yes it was Hortico, and they sent me a 5 gal rose. There was an Ag sticker on it also. I don't know, do they have a grower in the U.S., is that possible?? All I know is I received a 5 gal Mellow Yellow from Hortico and this was 4 to 5 years ago.
Carrie

How often to we hear or rather lament the passing of rose nurseries? So when we have someone like Hortico that carries so many hard to find or even impossible to find roses what happens? They get bad mouthed over and over for failing to be perfect? As if they were dealing with something inert and stamped out things that could be exactly alike and neatly inventoried ready to be shipped.

I for one feel that they deserve more tolerance and am willing to give them a break. And thanks a lot!

Seriously, if I did my job with the same performance measures as they did, I'd no longer have a job. If my supermarket provided produce that was usually 20% dead, rotten, or mistagged, I wouldn't shop there. If my bank screwed up 20% of my desposits, I wouldn't bank there.

I know it's heartbreaking to lose nurseries, but a major nursery like this made a business decision that THIS INDUSTRY was their core competency. If they are incompetent or fail at the one thing they are supposed to be an expert at, then they probably should not survive. Supporting them sends the message that we accept their errors or rude service as tolerable. I understand that inventory in an industry like this can be an uncertainty, but there are many, many ways to improve tracking, list availability, and answer customer service questions with accuracy AND tact.

Yes, yes, dear Phebee, it really is a problem to 'think well' where Hortico is concerned.

As for your shoes . . . well, I don't order from Hortico and I ain't gonna order from you. Ta-ta, dear Phebee . . .

I've noticed a lot of spammers on here lately, haven't you, Jax?

I just placed an order with Hortico today. I know, I probably shouldn't've.... but, they have (listed) a few unusuals I want to see if I really get. I noticed they seem to be removing some roses now that they either have sold out of, or maybe didn't actually have. Maybe things have improved. Let's hope so.

I've ordered from them off and on for around 15yrs. I never had much trouble until recently. I used to hate how they'd list all these roses that they didn't actually have in their possession. I used to have tons of backorders and credits due to ordering roses that didn't exist. A couple yrs ago, they did quit putting roses on there that they didn't really have. Altho, they do have quite a few that are listed incorrectly. Most are roses with the same name, just that they have the wrong version of that particular named rose in their description. I have several that I got a couple yrs ago that are in fact the correctly named roses, but they just aren't the ones that they describe. In some cases it was OK. Some of those mistakes they have fixed on the website. But some are obviously still wrong. I ordered one on this order knowing the picture they show is actually a different rose than the one listed, but that's ok, because I want the one they show. Hopefully, they will all be what I'm expecting tho! We'll see!

Yes, Beth, the spammers have descended on us like flies on ... whatever. But what's with this shoe thing? They don't yet realize that (1) we spend all our resources on roses, (2) shop for our shoes at consignment stores (high end, ofcourse), and, (3) if we can't find 'em there, shop WalMart, thank you very much.

Beth, I sometimes go to HMF to pour over your astonishing collection . . . I always want to ask you questions, but don't. However, my questions du jour are these: What do you think of the HT 'Macho Man' and the Floribunda (?) 'Lila Vidri'?

I reported Phebee (again). It seems if you send a copy of the post to the "abuse of forums" section of the "contact us" at the bottom of the page, they do get after it and remove the offender. But it takes time to keep doing that. Aargh.

On Hortico, they sent me a message last week that my order of 4 replacement roses (for stuff that was mislabeled or DOA last year) is being sent tomorrow. So undoubtedly, this is their "fall" shipment to the U.S. coming now. I think they only do one of those each year, as far as I can tell. So Beth, you've probably missed it and will get yours when they start shipping again in the spring (when Ontario thaws out).

BUT . . . you guys should really be ordering your roses from the rare rose auction in any event. We are really worried that we have too many roses this year, given everyone's financial shape and the fact that we have over 200 roses to move and usually only 40 people or so at the auction. So there will be some real deals, and there are some GREAT roses on the list this time. Go put your bids in (even if low) and we'll get the plants to you at whatever it costs us to ship them (now or in the spring).

Kathy

p.s. btw Beth, what do you think Hortico has mislabeled on the site now? I know one of them -- I got "The Twins" last year, which was supposed to be an orange rose, and the picture on the Hortico site is white and the rose I got is white -- probably Lens' rose Twins.

Here is a link that might be useful: CalCoastal Rose Society auction website.

Jax, you can either send me a private message thru HMF, or send a message thru here and I'll email you back anytime you wanna know about a rose I have. (I don't post my email on here) Be advised tho, that many of the roses I have are still small ownroots and I may not have much info. As for MACHO MAN... OMG what a gorgeous rose in the fall! He doesn't do great in the summer, but fall is when he goes nuts. Spring he will mildew and B/S if you get early rain. Grows about 4ft tall and 3ft wide. Sorry I forget to check scent. LILA VIDRI (formerly known as LEILA VERDE) is one gorgeous lavender too. She does great all yr long. Don't think she gets much disease as I recall. You do know I don't spray, right? Scent is nice if I remember correctly. The color on her is a real blue-lavender and MM is more dusty mauvey-lavender. Kinda girly for a "macho" guy!!

Kathy... I've had Hortico ship at all sorts of odd times in the fall and before Xmas. If I don't get mine til spring that's ok tho. I've found that sometimes they actually do better when they come in the spring. So no matter to me!! They're mostly going into the pot ghetto anyway!
Some of those mislabled roses they did actually fix, and some I see are no longer even listed. One that's wrong for sure tho is one I ordered, GOLDEN GIRL. They say it's the Meilland 1959 grandiflora version, but the picture they show (if it's accurate) is obviously the 2000 Zary floribunda version called GOLDEN GIRLS. Ok with me tho. I'd love to have either one! Another one is CADILLAC. They have it as the Kordes apricot-pink HT (and show a pic from the Kordes website I imagine); but the rose that I received from them two seasons ago is in fact the Poulsen orange-red miniflora CADILLAC CASTLE, which I have a couple of pics of it on HMF. I know there are more mistakes on there, I just can't remember them right now.

p.s. I see another one that's wrong on Hortico's site: They have "Dream Come True" as a white rose -- the one they are really selling is the Weeks rose that is multi-colored. And Parole looks like it has a color problem in the photo over there too. And now that I'm looking at it, they've got the wrong Escimo listed -- the one in the picture is the 2006 version, not the one with the synonym Korcilmo. And Humanity is the wrong rose, and Janice Kellogg is wrong, and Rumba is wrong, and so on and so on and so on. Ahem!

Yeah, I'm sure there are a lot more wrong roses on there. But for those of us who know that and maybe want the "wrong" rose, I guess it's worth trying.

Wow Kathy, I'd love to bid on a few of the roses. But I don't know if it's my computer or what... but I couldn't fill out the auction form online. It said it opened in "read only mode." I imagine the ones I'd want are the ones that'll be gone first anyway....

Thanks for the response, Beth. I just rushed to the Reagan site only to find that they've already sold out of 'Macho Man'. As for the elusive 'Lila Vidri', I'm told that one of the smaller vendors may be able to offer her in a year or so. Based on your comments, it sounds like she's worth the wait.

So now, I assume Regans pulls the pic of a rose when it sells out? They didn't used to do that. Hmmmm... interesting. And LILA VIDRI.. I was gonna say maybe ask Cliff if he plans to offer her anytime soon, but I see he doesn't have her. I hope you can find her somewhere.

Beth -- my email is listed. Just email your bids to me and I'll get them into the right folks. That goes for anyone who has the same problem with the auction site -- we weren't aware of a problem like that.

Moreover, Beth, the roses that get the most bids, usually, are the ones that people are the most familiar with. You probably already have those. The unknown ones usually go for less -- so your comment that you think everyone wants the ones you want is not so sure.

And look, the powers that be got rid of the Phebee post after I complained. Way to go, gardenweb team.
Kathy

Here is a link that might be useful: Silent Auction List

how nice, I just got off the phone with Horitco from my rose order from 2006 ! I finally subbed out the roses because almost 5 years for an order is too long. This will be the 4th time they have tried to fill this order. They even asked me for payment!!!! I paid them 5 years ago... how the hell do i even go back that many years on a credit card? The company is a joke! (Luckily, they only got me for about 150$) It is just as well, the rootstock they use will not last a month in Florida. But getting an earful from a salesman that said Hortico would never accept payment ahead of time we do not operate like that never have . What a joke I guess they should have told the other orders that were already paid for! I would slap someone if I was closer!

I am still fuming about the man that came onto the phone with me. Being called a liar WHEN I ALREADY PAID the bill is really starting to burn my butt MORE and More. The thing that I find funny is the fact that under the terms box it says PREPAID. He stated Hortico would never have you pay for an order first. Well the print out I have had for years says different. Now I feel like fighting for them!

If you simply can not live without a rose in your garden, you can try Hortico, hopefully you get what you ordered. (I am not a fan of trying multiflora in Florida either way.)I will NEVER order from them again. I had been drooling / dreaming "Golden Visions" now I am "Fairilie Rede" or red with anger. I just really wanted the 2 Alister Clark roses the rest of the order, I'm not even interested in.

I guess it is a good way to look back and see if your taste in roses changes !!!! Mine has!

Regarding the Auction MS Excel File. Just save it with 'Save As' using a different name (ie add your name to the title). You can then make changes and send it off to the appropriate party.

Beth -- I think it was last season that Reagan began pulling the pics of roses that had sold out. My first experience was last year when 'Special Occasion' disappeared before I could finalize my order. This year, it was 'Macho Man'. It's likely that these were roses that were in very short supply to begin with. Maybe 'Macho Man' will appear again next year. Unfortunately, 'Special Occasion' did not reappear on Reagan's list for the 2011 season. Palatine is listing that one -- but on Multiflora, ofcourse.

I slso was wondering if Cliff might be able to offer 'Lila Vidri'. He posted a photo of it at HMF, but, like you, I note that it's no longer listed in his very long inventory of plants. I suppose one has to assume that he no longer has it in his collectionn.

I've tried to root Lila Vidri a couple of times without any success. I have noticed that the mauves are the most difficult roses to root, and that the mauves (and the russets that have mauve in them) also seem to be the worst at growing on their own roots, especially the older ones. I have yet to see a Lila Vidri growing on its own roots -- it may well be impossible.

The "started-eye" plants that Carlton sold were on manetti and the stentlings were on odorata. I think Lila Vidri may well be headed for the history books if someone doesn't start selling it as a grafted plant again. We probably should try to get some budwood to Burling Leong, (the queen of grafting), if we want it saved.

Kathy

Kathy I appreciate your efforts. I may send you an email. I've been emailing Cliff the last couple days about roses he has that I'd like to get from him, so he's very kindly rooting up several. One was on the auction list. There are a couple on the auction list that he doesn't have, so ya might just hear from me!

"Lookin" that's weird that Hortico claims they don't take prepayments. That is a lie. They have ALWAYS taken a 50% downpayment charged immediately after you place the order. Whoever you are talking to either is new or doesn't have a clue.

Lagomorphmom, I don't know if I can get that file to work. I don't have Windows or Mac. My son put up a Linex (did I spell that right?) program on my computer and it has different applications to open things, so maybe that's why it wouldn't open.

Hey Jax, email Cliff about both those roses. He might actually have LV. He forgets what he has sometimes.

Ooops, didn't see your last post Kathy. Yeah, maybe someone should get some budwood sent to either Burling or Steve Singer. It's too late for Steve to do it now tho.

And I've read articles by Kim Rupert who says the "russet" roses are the hardest to propagate. He recommends the first couple seasons after they do get rooted to sacrifice the blooms to get the root systems to establish better. Hard to do when you wanna see those gorgeous oddball blooms!!

Kathy and Beth, That's very interesting, but very disheartening, information regarding 'Lila Vidri'. Ashdown had LV in its collection and assured some of us that they would propagate it. Now I have a clue as to why it was never available from them. Could be that they attempted, but simply failed in their efforts.

Perhaps I'll check Burling's list from time to time in the future to see if it ever shows up there. I'm bummed . . .

Two years ago, I had placed an order in November for spring delivery, availability was confirmed and I was told theyâÂÂd attempt to source out roses not in stock, the Hortico gals were friendly and helpful, or at least I had thought. My deposit was taken and I then awaited upon the arrival of the spring shipment ... but, it didn't come! I emailed and asked as to when I could expect the parcel and was told âÂÂwell, didnâÂÂt you receive our recent email saying that NONE of your roses were available?â ... I had received no such email! ... talk about being so very peeved off and disappointed with Hortico!

Prior to that, my last order had been extremely variable, some rather decent plants, others smallish and one that had left me shaking my head, it had literally been ripped in half, this likely occurring upon being dug.

Will I ever again order from Hortico, honestly I donâÂÂt know, as I have received some varieties unavailable elsewhere ... though, I'm unsure if it's worth the frustration of dealing with them?

Terry

Perhaps it's time to start a new thread on Lila Vidri???

I'm not at all complaining about OT, rather if you want more people to notice the problem it would get more notice.

In looking on HMF I see it listed in Pam's garden, Red Rose Ridge (mendocino rose), perhaps someone should shoot her an email as well. And also Burling, too. Nothing like direct contact and if you're like me, nothing like doing it in the present cuz ten minutes from now I'd forget....