Sounds like a great book---LOL

Florence

Hi Connie,
My Auguste Gervaise (RU)sent out long, long canes. Had pretty single pink flowers which I liked; they had a uniqueness to them and were not the "usual pink". My flowers were not large but mid size though the poor plant was in a wood chip berm buried in a one gallon pot for 3 plus years(I believe HMFR or someplace I recently read described the flowers as large). Spring bloomer; nice healthy green leaves and never noticed blackspot on it.
Jim

Do as much research on who you place your orders with as you did on the roses ... and good luck.

I think your entusiasm should be encouraged.

I love the climbers! I remember meeting that book for the first time in the early 2000s... which precipitated buying 'Madame Sancy de Parabere'.

Speaking from experience, I definitely think you should follow Riku's advice. Try Rogue Valley instead of Hortico for 'Emily Gray' to avoid potentially severe disappointment.

Thank you Stephan, I was trying to help very subtlety so as to allow the enthusiasm to be rewarded with real results ... the author reminds me of myself 7 years ago.

I actually thought I was being subtle too, although admittedly less so :) Hey, if Hortico wanted and deserved people's business without accompanying bad publicity, they shouldn't have screwed up countless orders over the years. If not for the fact that they occasionally treat a random customer well, they would probably have gone totally bust by now. I'm through with being lukewarm about their bad behavior. They've had more than their fair share of chances.

This little book by G.A. Stevens, is, IMO, one of the best books on climbers/ramblers ever done. I have several copies of it so I can keep one in the car (right next to my rose rustling tools ya know). Stevens was a close friend of Horace McFarland & actually knew the ramblers he catalogs (unlike Quest-Ritson). His section at the end with the descriptions is invaluable. He can be quite judgemental at times but never really nasty, as too often appears in Q-R's works, IMO.

Note: 'Emily Gray' is a beauty. It does well for me in Z7a/6b, though there will be some moderate die-back. Also remember there's two 'May Queen's out there.

Amen brother ...

Your new rose book is causing me trouble too. I have a collection of rose books and this is one I didn't have so I had to order it :-). I don't grow any of these roses but I have longed for a lot of them. Why does it seem like the people (me) with the smallest gardens love the biggest roses? If you have room, go for it!

Carol

Oh, I agree with Riku and Stefan, try to find them somewhere other than Hortico. I had a very bad experience with them. I ordered roses listed as available, called to make sure they really were available, and when it was time to ship them, they weren't available. No explanation when I called to ask why other than they would be available in the spring. They weren't. Huh? Two years later, still no roses. I cancelled the order, needless to say.

Carol

LOL, Riku, you were very subtle and tactful, indeed.

I think (or, I hope?)that I will be able to give some info on Hortico's present performance very soon - according to them.

I ordered 4 roses from them that were not available for anyone else either in the USA or in Canada. I guess I will be able to report on the following items:

1. If they indeed send all 4 roses (I followed up the order with a phone call the next day and I was assured that the order has no problem at all)
   2) When those roses arrive - they should be here, in principle, by the end of November. But, as we know based on past experience, that this promise does not mean that they will be here.
   3.)In what conditions those roses will arrive if they arrive at all.

I keep my fingers crossed because I truly want those roses. Besides, it would be nice to be able to give a positive report on this company.

Auguste Gervais is a must as the flowers are large and a lot like papi Delbard Although this is a rambler it does have thick canes like a climber.
May Queen is also worth getting.
Mme Staechlin is beautiful but has a very short bloom period in the PNW
Pauls Lemon Pillar has large lemon flowers with a good scent but only blooms once.
Rene Andre is a must have and is fairly rare.
Leopodine d'Orleans is another good rambler with many attractive flowers.
Paul Noel is attracive but has short bloom get Paul Transon instead.
Alexander Girault is a bright carmine and also god
Lady Waterlow in my garden is a good climber but the flowers are messy a pink colour with a darker boarder. IMO there are more attractive climbers.
I have photos of all of these on my website.

Here is a link that might be useful: photos of ramblers

Connie, hmmm, this little book is causing a lot of trouble for me, too. I love climbing roses and this is a book I don't have. I just ordered my copy an hour or so ago. See what you've done?

Rosefolly ;)

Connie,

As you know, climbers are my weakness. I've got most on your list, but they're all too young to comment on.

I have a question about Sancy Parabere...What is a good way to grow this rose? over an arch, up a tripod, into a tree? Mine is still in a pot.

Robert

I think 'Mme. Sancy de Parabere' is probably best grown either up a post with a wheel or something else on top to help support the canes as they spray up and out, or trained carefully to a wall. It's very difficult to train neatly on an arch (I've tried and given up on this), and the growth habit isn't at all right for climbing trees - it doesn't even have thorns! Think of it more as a really long, tall shrub with weak wood that requires plenty of support.

Hi Connie,

Perhaps Nick will chime in here, but I remember seeing Paul's Lemon Pillar when I visited his garden last spring, and it is breathtaking.

Kathy

All of this is a perfect example of why I love this place. My little book-buying habit spun into something else, and a couple of you have gently set me on a better path. Thanks, guys.

I had, indeed, heard all the negative things about Hortico, but they were the only HMF source listed for Emily Gray. Now that I know Rogue Valley also carries it, Hortico is out of the picture completely -- I'm still gonna get the roses though.

I'm very glad to have given some others the idea to get this book. Many times I have bought an old rose book, and I find that it's a nice addition to the collection but not very useful. I can see that this one may stay here on the desk instead of taking its place on the shelf with the others.

Other roses that have made the list are:
Mrs. Arthur Curtiss James
La Reve
Jacotte
Henri Barruet
Auguste Roussel

I'm going to continue to refine my list, hunt out sources, and scheme over the winter.

Connie

P.S. Thanks for the encouragement. This place does, indeed, rock.

Alexander Girault is wonderful in our climate. My friend here in MD grows it and it is unbelievable sight each spring. Healthy too. If I had more space I would definitely grow it.
Olga

I have Paul's Lemon Pillar from Vintage as a band. It's a month or two shy of being a year old and already about eleven feet up the side of a redwood tree. Right now, it's putting out laterals everywhere, very vigorous.

So, I'd say Vintage is a good source for if it's in stock.

MichaelAT

Michael, what about some pics of PLP?
Oh Connie, you have me trembling thinking of more roses, especially beautiful climbers!

Carla

For anyone heading into the cold dark days of winter dreaming of climbing roses, here are a few more excellent books on the subject:

Thomas, Graham Stuart. _Climbing Roses Old and New_. London: Phoenix House

Scanneillo, Stephen & Bayard, Tania. _Climbing Roses_. New York: Prentice Hall General Reference, 1994

Warner, Christopher. _Climbing Roses_. Chester, CT: Globe Pequot Press, 1988

All three books are excellent in their descriptions of the roses. Scanniello's book is outstanding in the amount of detail and historical information on each rose. Warner offers detailed information on 100 roses. GST should need no introduction as this book follows the general excellence of his other two.

For those desperate for even more reading about climbing roses, they can consult Quest-Ritson. His fascinating and scholarly tome is outstanding in many ways, particularly for information on the history of climbing roses and of those who bred them. His book is flawed, unfortunately, in regard to his inaccurate descriptions of roses bred around the turn of the last century in the US.

I believe that rather than coming to the US to see these roses in the Cranford, Elizabeth Park and NY Botanical gardens where they are know to be true to type, he observed these roses in Europe, particularly at Sangerhausen. After two world wars and decades of neglect under communist rule, there is understandably some confusion as to the true name of some of their roses and so his observations are inaccurate because he had the wrong rose. Unless someone can come up with another explanation as to why his descriptions are so inaccurate (he even acknowledges that he is contradicting descriptions given contemporary to the release of the rose), that's my best guess.

Saw Mrs. Arthur Curtiss James for the first time in Joyce Demits' garden in Ft. Bragg, Ca. It is stunning. Love the red stripe on the bud.
Anita

Here is a link that might be useful: Mrs. Arthur Curtiss James

Connie, I'm just checking back to this thread after you first posted (and after, I confess, I raced out to buy the book as well!). There are so many great suggestions. I saw a Paul's Lemon Pillar at at HRNW member's garden in North Seattle last year and it was stunning -
{{gwi:235338}}
{{gwi:323950}}
15 feet up the east side of the house and I've wanted one ever since.

And as for Hortico, they once sent me the most beautiful Gloire de Dijon, oops, nope, that was the once-blooming Alchymist, wasn't it? Not sorry to have this beauty but wish it had been what I paid for.

Sue

(It sounds as if ordering from Hortico is a lot like playing the lottery.)

I have the Quest-Ritson book. The photo section alone will blow you away. What a wonderful way to spend time -- a cup of tea and this book.

The reason I went to Amazon the other day was to see if I could order Stephen Scaneillo's book. I ordered that one (which came yesterday -- another very good one.) While I was perusing the other rose books, I noticed the G. A. Stevens one (ordered that), and one by William Welch. I don't have the Thomas or Warner books. I guess it's time for me to create an Amazon wish list.

I dream of creating a garden of roses over my head and lining the walls. Some of these climbers and ramblers are more than I can resist. I sat the other afternoon and went carefully through the Rogue Valley catalog. After all of the nice things said here about them, I have placed an order, I plan to order a number of roses from them later on. (One I got this time was "Connie's Favorite Gallica". I just had to do it.) I also ordered Emily Gray, and I will try Susan Louise and Erinnerung an Brod.

Paul's Lemon Pillar will wait till at least a spring order, and I will also get Paul's Scarlet. (My favorite Aunt grew Paul's Scarlet, and I'll get it in tribute to her.) The photos of Mrs. Arthur Curtiss James are really pretty. I didn't used to like yellow roses much, but I seen to be drawn to them now. I guess we all go through phases.

Connie

I have the Scanneillo and Bayard book, and the Quest-Riston book, and our library has the Warner book. What I notice is that my climbers do very well in our bad soil, and I notice that I'm a whole lot fonder of thornless roses than I am of vicious monsters. Illusion comes to mind, it was gorgeous all summer, but no fun to walk past and worse yet to try to pull weeds around. (I'm now heaping cedar branches around all the stuff I don't want to weed) So I'm looking at all those multiflora crosses. AND, to top it off, I just found out that you aren't supposed to plant susceptible species within 50 feet of the dripline of black walnuts (uh-oh) but that multifloras are immune to the toxin. So, my triple row of roses in reach of the tree in question (a grafted easy crack tree, so it's not coming out) is mostly on multiflora rootstock except one I have to move. I guess Veilchenblau is going in that area. I adore the photo of Griseldis in Quest-Riston. I don't like fussy little tight blooms, I prefer them more open and I like some scent. Any suggestions? (I'll go open a new thread on this) Donna

Donna, my own thought is that multifloras are tolerant of the juglone from black walnuts, not that they are immune. I don't have any science to back this up, just some informal observation. Violette did much better in another part of my garden where there was no black walnut influence. Juglone may not be the cause; it may be some other soil factor, but I do see a difference. All of my purple multifloras are struggling. The black walnuts have all now been removed but the multiflora climbers have not improved. I see this as an experiment that did not work out well here.

YMMV, of course.

Rosefolly

Alright, what do you know that I don't? I've been trying to find the G. A. Stephens book on the internet but haven't succeeded. I thought for sure Amazon. com would have it. So tell us, where did you find it?

I bought my copy from an Amazon dealer. There were a number of them to choose from at the time. It looks as if my praise of the book caused others to snap them up. I imagine other copies will come available if you check from time to time. It's a really good book, and worth the trouble to find it, IMO.

Connie

Somehow Helen Van Pelt Wilson's excellent _Climbing Rose_ from 1955 was omitted from the above discussion. Those who failed to grab a copy of Steven's book could happily substitute this until supplies of his regenerate in the used book market.

She has a critical eye without being abrasive and is candid about disease resistance and other practical matters. Since the book was written in 1955, she is able to evaluate many of the classic climbers many decades after their release into commerce, giving her a long term perspective. Further, she gives excellent advice about using climbing roses in the landscape. I particularly like this advice as a final though on 'Excelsa':

"Especially keep red ramblers from naturalizing near the wild orange daylily. This makes a horrible picture in the New England scene in July!"

She offers advice on climbers for different climates and excellent tips on pruning, showing in detail how to train a pillar rose. She also shows plans for fences and lattices with plenty of pictures of pergolas and arbors and other structures for roses in the landscape. This is a classic text on climbing roses and well worth a place in the library.

It's really good to hear someone praise the Helen Van Pelt Wilson book, since it was in my latest round of Amazon rose book shopping. I really look forward to reading it once it arrives.

Blessings,
Connie

(It sounds as if ordering from Hortico is a lot like playing the lottery.)

Exactly. I never win on lottery although I do not even try it very often.
Same happened with my Hortico order as happened last time. They didn't ship because they didn't have two of the roses I ordered.

Those of you interested in used books perhaps do not know of Abebooks.com. It is an online service where thousands of used bookstores post their entire inventories and you can search by title, author, subject etc. and find almost any book at a variety of prices some great deals. They have all the above mentioned books. I just got several of them through them from different bookstores. I usually check out the descriptions at Amazon and then compare prices for used books at abebooks.

Here is a link that might be useful: abebooks

Yes, the Van Pelt Wilson book is very good. Although if you read it closely you'll discover that she had direct experience with only a limited variety. Leonie Bell once pointed that out to me very forcibly. It's still a good book though, especially for some of the Brownell climbers. And VERY interesting photos, including members of the Brownell family of hybridizers.