Enchantress so far is in a holding pattern, hardly blooming and not growing much. It may be the climate here since Sherry's in Florida seems to be splendid. It's about two years old or less, and has been transplanted once, since Westside Road Cream Tea was encroaching on it in a major way (that's one rose that's very vigorous for me). Anyway I hope that next spring will bring a breakthrough of some kind. I do love the color of the flowers although mine have been fairly small. It's a rose that I'm willing to be patient with.

I had Jaune Desprez years ago and it was not a favorite of mine although it did quite well. Perhaps because of the spot it was in it had lots more foliage than blooms, and the blooms didn't strike me as spectacular. I know others love this rose, and I'm sure you'll have more feedback.

Ingrid

Jerome, I have most of the roses you're dreaming of but i"m sure my conditions are very different.

Blush Noisette - Mine must still be in the awkward stage. I think it went in the ground around March, 2009. It's about 5' tall. The blooms have been sporadic and smell funny (musk?). I want to keep it and am waiting for it to do its thing.

Enchantress - A real favorite of mine. Splendid dense blue-green foliage. Low grower so far, planted in March, 2009 (I think). Flowers for the first year were small, but they've gotten biger this year and often ball. In late summer her flowers are bigger (maybe 2" across and spherical). There's something Victorian about her flowers. They make me think of the ladies' big feathered hats and piled up hairdos -strictly a subjective impression. I would keep this rose if it only balled because of the exceptional foliage, health, lovely magenta color and abundance of flowers.

Well, my car is done. Gotta go. I'll finish this later.

Sherry

I have found Madame Alfred Carriere to be a good rose to grow up a tree, over the roof of a garage, etc. Mine get no care except Osmacote, and a little extra water in the summertime. They get quite large, and will climb with a little encouragement. In my garden, they are one of the first roses to start blooming in the Spring, and the last to bloom in the Fall/Winter. They grow in shade (at least until they get big enough to find the sun). I would strongly recommend this rose for out buildings, large trees, or large fences, but not the middle of a formal bed.

Jackie

Jerome, Vintage lists 2 Lamarques. For the one listed simply as 'Lamarque', Vintage assigns the secondary name of "California Lamarque"; the other is "Thomasville Lamarque", which apparently may be the more commonly grown one. Which do you grow?

Based on the catalog descriptions, I think the 'Larmarque' I have is the Thomasville variety, but I'm very curious about the other one because it sounds as tho it may be the superior rose. Anyone here familiar with both varieties?

Some time ago (maybe even a couple of years), one of the forumers posted a photo of her Jaune Desprez cascading all down from her deck, or maybe it was up TO the deck - can't remember which, or who posted it. BUT - it was utterly gorgeous. A beautiful plant with beautiful flowers.

I know this is probably worse than useless as regards to what you want to know. I'm hoping the poster of that photo will remember and chime in.

Laura

Thanks to all who've replied so far! I got Lamarque once, and it died on me. Someone told me that ARE had a great plant, and that's where I ordered my second one. It's planted in a horrible place (neglect, bad soil but lots of sun) and it is one tough rose. Beautiful white flowers. Smell nice in the morning. Nice foliage (when the deer don't eat it). Anyway, I have the Antique Rose Emporium clone. I don't know which one of Vintage's that is.

Mme. ALfred Carriere is grown as a tree (or a pair of them) at the Nixon Library about 40 minutes north of me, and it is amazing. I really want to get it, but will need room for a small tree.

I've heard mixed reports on Jaune Desprez. Graham Thomas' description of the fragrance was something that made me really want this rose...but I am sure that it would perform very differently for me in inland Orange County than it would at Mottisfont! I also get the impression that roses are more fragrant in the UK (because of soil? Climate?) Now before you all jump on me and say, "How can you say that?! You've never even been to England!!" (true, BTW) I was at the Huntington gardens about 2 years ago, and was wandering around with a friend through the roses. We heard an English couple moving through the beds, and it was obvious they knew a lot about plants in general and roses in particular, and I heard the lady say, "these are all so much more fragrant in England..." I don't want to veer this thread off the main topic, maybe I should start another thread: Does the fragrance of roses differ from country to country? But I digress.

I was disappointed in Jaune Deprez. Here it was pretty much a once bloomer; a huge once bloomer. I do understand it repeats for some, but it did not repeat for me.

Mme Alfred was way too big for the spot I gave it, and I gave it a pretty big spot. Also it developed PM, which may not be so much a problem for you down where you are as it is for me up here.

Blush Noisette got downy mildew and the disease kept coming back. Eventually I took it out. I have not heard of others having this particular problem with this rose, so my experience should not disqualify it for you.

I have not grown any of the others on your list.

Rosefolly

Hello Jerome
Fragrance is such a fugitive sensation - roses in my garden smell a whole lot more than the same roses on my allotment and I have concluded that the shelter of a wall firstly adds extra heat but mostly, the air is very still so fragrance becomes more concentrated. Many roses at Mottisfont are grown in the lee of wonderful tall brick walls and I think the concentration of fragrance is much the same. Of course, there are so many other issues such as humidity, time of day, age of rose.

Jerome,

I have two Jaune Desprez, both planted in less-than-ideal spots (poor, dryish, shallow soil) and both growing well with no disease problems. Even here in Livermore, the fragrance from the main flush is huge, spectacular and unique. The leaves can hardly be seen for all the blooms. To my nose, there is a lovely note of pears in the scent, which carries at least halfway across my yard. JD reblooms here only somewhat less than Madame Alfred Carriere. The rebloom is getting better with age; the first several years there was virtually none, but I've noticed that there seems to be more with each passing year (in fact, there are blooms on it now). JD is smaller in size than MAC (whom I also adore), but still large.

Debbie

Thanks for all your input. Debbie, your description of JD's main flush recalls Graham Stuart Thomas's description in his "The Rose Book". I think I'll order this rose.

Ingrid, where did you get Enchantress from? ARE has it and several other places.

Jerome, I received Enchantress from Vintage, and it is currently available there. I was pleased to see three or four buds on it last night, even this late in the season.

Ingrid

Hi Jerome,

I love, love love, and adore "Lamarque", The foliage is awesome, and it thrives here with no spraying in the S.F. Bay area. Thomasvile "Lamarque" has smaller blooms than the California form.
I'm one of the rare few who doesn't love the scent of J.D.
it is too much like overly ripe bananas for my tastes.

Mac mildews badly where I live, far more than Lamarque.
I bought Blush Noisette on the advice of a neighbor and wished I hadn't for in my opinion it is the plainest of all the pink Noisettes. I much prefer the rose that Rogue valley sells as Champneys Pink Cluster" for the individual blooms are prettier, and the foliage is more attractive.
Just my opinion after growing both. You might well become another Blush Noisette fan.
pink and yellow Teas.
One of my favorite pink Tea roses is "Mme Berkeley" which grows to be c. 8 feet tall here, with fantastic starry blooms. In cool months it has salmon hues near its center.
"Souvenir de la Pierre Notting" has larger yellow blooms, which darken to medium yellow after being in a vase a day or two.
On November 19th both have 100% buds and blooms and are waxing towards a full flush. Most of our Tea roses are waning in bloom this late in the season.
I haven't found that roses are more strongly scented in England, when I was there. According to Greg L. one must have the proper olfactory receptors to detect a scent of a type of rose. This is why some persons can smell Gallica roses but not Old Garden Tea roses. Lucky for me, I can smell Tea roses.

white Teas, China
I had to leave "Ducher" behind for it mildews terribly in our climate. .
I recently bought two Westside Road Cream Tea" and heartily praise them. I bought them in July and they still have clean foliage. The blooms have a bit more substance than Mme. Alfred Carriere, and to my nose, far more fragrance. They grow to be small plants for a Tea, only c. 4 feet tall. I prefer the blooms of Westside Road Cream Tea to those of Ducher or Mac. If I could cross them with the foliage of Lamarque" I'd have a perfect climbing white Rose. I do dream of such.

Best wishes,
Lux.

What fantastic feedback. Thanks to all of you. Lux...in photos, I cannot tell the difference between Champney's and Blush...I'll take your word for it, and would be inclined to like Champney's more for its historical value. Mme. Berkeley is a great great rose, I can see it getting to 8'. I planted the one here from a band in November of 05. It's very wide(7-8'?) and about 5' tall. It would be wider and taller but the gardeners keep "shaping" it. I would like to get another Lamarque from ARE. After reading all your comments, I think I'll pass on JD

MAC was very good here, but you really need space. Mine engulfed the front of the house...also became a prime place for rats to nest...have you got a small outbuilding that needs to be (completely) covered? Or a large empty spot that can use a haystack-sized plant? Nearly zero thorns, but the foliage had nasty needle sharp hooks on the back that sliced like a razor blade. I miss it, but we really needed to get in and out of the front door...

hoovb, I perceive that you may not be the dedicated rose enthusiast I'd thought you to be. I would have thought you'd create a hole in the wall somewhere else for a new entrance and leave your glorious specimen (and the roof rats) alone....

Ingrid

Jerome,

Of those in your list, I have only 2. MAC and Blush Noisette.

I love Madame Alfred. The first flush of bloom are a kind of very pale peachy pink that fade to white and the fragrance is wonderful. I had one in a poor location and purchased another one to place in a better spot since I love it so much. Mine are very healthy-they do get a bit of bs but get no spray. In fact, they get less water--they're in a spot that is farther away and harder to water but they are still awesome.

I got Blush Noisette for my garden after seeing them on a trip to Charleston. To me, they smelled kind of like honey. The fragrance carried on the breeze. It is what led me to find the first one I saw in an old cemetary in Charleston. Mine is still small and hasn't done a lot yet. I did get some blooms this summer--small and mostly white but they smelled really nice. This time of year black spot is usually really bad but yesterday I didn't see any bs on it.

I've always wanted Lamarque. I love the pictures but have not gotten it because I've heard it needs A LOT of room.

I keep hearing wonderful things about Enchantress. I had it in my hands on a trip to Roses Unlimited this past spring but put it back because I heard it has trouble with balling. I got Souv. de Francois Gaulain instead and LOVE it. Maybe you should get BOTH and you can be the expert on the differences between the two. *smiles*

I'm looking forward to hearing what you get and and how they turn out for you. Jeff

Jerome, I grow Blush Noisette and Mme Alfred Carriere, really like them. I wonder if Blush Noisette has a highter petal count than Champney's....

To my nose Mme Alfred Carriere has a unique scent, perhaps a hint of pineapple in it...

Here's a pic of Blush Noisette.

{{gwi:228956}}

I posted some pics of Mme Alfred Carriere in another thread, here's the link:

Here is a link that might be useful: Noisettes in a vase

Well, I placed an order today and got some that I hadn't planned on...

Adam
Lamarque
Champney's Pink Cluster
Duchesse de Brabant

We'll see how they do.