Not quite sure, yet, where this is going to go -- but it sure is clean here.
Anyone have a size-range on Cl. Cramoisi Superieur, in a mild climate?
JeriCoastal Ventura Co., SoCal
Well, HMF gives the upper height as 20'. As long as the gophers stay away from it; your pruners aren't too sharp and you can give it enough water, I'd think you should be able to achieve or better that size there, Jeri. Kim
O-KAY! Thanks Kim. I should have looked there. The foliage, btw is remarkably handsome. Nice rose!
cl cramoisi superieur or Cl. Cecile Brunner?
Cl Cramoisi Superieur wilting
HAVE: Rose Cutting Trade
Red climber with decent fall flush wanted..
You're welcome. Interesting that it is a seedling of the original, like Cl. American Beauty is a seedling of its parent, instead of a sport. Also interesting is its lack of any offspring...Kim
My (old) plant easily reaches to eight feet, and would likely go higher if I didn't trim it down to six and a half feet every year. It's an excellent rose, one of the best of all, and extremely dependable. Sometimes it bears hips; but I haven't been able to get any of its seeds to sprout . . . yet . . .
It's listed as being triploid (like Knock Out, which is also very reluctant to germinate). You might find it easier to use as a pollen parent. Some triploids are extremely fertile (Lynnie, for one), but many aren't. Embryo extraction might also be something interesting to try with it. Kim
It certainly appears that it has pollen to spare. And it seems to have a great deal to offer, in the way of color, and disease resistance (at least, here).
I like it very much.
The interesting thing is that, when it bears hips for me, it usually bears several in the same (diffuse) cluster or on the same branch, not one here and one there.
Mine tends to have flowers which are rather more double and shapely than the open flower shown in the pic. The coloration, though, is right on. (And it's "right on," as well.)
If I had to choose only one red climbing rose for garden use as a climber, it would be 'Cl. Cramoisi Superieur'. One wouldn't go to it for size of flower, or scent; and, though it's floriferous, you wouldn't go to it if you wanted a "sheet of bloom"; but it's like one's best friend--others may be better in one individual characteristic or another, but this is the one that puts them all together in the way you love.
Trust you to phrase it well.
And, this is the sort of red that draws me -- dark, with a hint of purple. When I looked at it sticking up from the cluster of pots out there, I was reminded in the color of the mini -- 'Black Jade.' It was that dark, on a fall day.
Maybe this will have more "form" when it matures, but if it does not, that's OK too. I really love showy stamens on dark roses.
I like its old name, Agrippina, better. Suits its prettiness & Agrippina the elder was supposedly a revered Roman matron.
I have one Cramoisi bush planted this spring as well as a climber on my side fence on the other side of my yard, as well as a Dublin Bay on my front fence. So far I'm really impressed with all three of them, very healthy foliage, and will post pictures when they get some size.
I've been thinking for years about trying this rose,but keep on putting it off because I'm so picky about my "reds"; I only really like the dark, deep, purply-garnet style reds. But reading this thread makes me think that CS Clbg. might actually be a red that I'd like!At least going by Jeri's photo...(problem with photos is that red is very hard to photograph, and,worse yet,I understand that everyone's computer can show colours differently, so there's no point in even asking if the colour in the photo is "true"!!! But Jeri's verbal description sounds good...Fact is,good climbing reds are proving to be a bit difficult for me, so far. I have Clbg. Crimson Glory and Clbg. Chateau de Clos Vougeot, both with splendidly beautiful flowers, but neither of which seems to be growing very vigourously, as of yet... bart
Bart, in MY climate, this Cl. Cramoisi Superieur really is a lovely rich deep purple-red -- just outside the range of my camera's ability to capture.
BUT not only do computers and monitors differ -- so do climates. I am coastal, and on the cool side.
In dry, inland heat, I don't know what it would be.
I've seen climbing Cramoisi Superieur grown locally on a 4 foot tall picket fench where all the basal canes formed a sort of trunk, and it leaned against the fence and arched on both sides to make a tall "V" shape,that spread about 9 feet wide, in total.As the fence is painted white it makes a beautiful contrast.The other one I've seen is grown espaliered against a stone wall in Oakland,California and it's been kept at c. 10 feet tall by c.7 feet wide, and because it is espaliered only 5 feet from front to back.
It was the first red climbing rose I thought of for my front yard because it shows stamens, and I love the color of the red.To me it has a light but dependable fragrance which reminds me of cherry flower incense.
My other favorite red climber is 'Souvenir de Claudius Denoyal' Luanne has one that I have admired for several years for its' long bloom season, quick re-bloom and luscious fragrance.
Oh, this is one I always wanted to grow. Not only because it looks beautiful, but because I understand one of its other names is "Agrippina", and I had a much-beloved cat named Agrippina! Wish I could grow it in her honor, but I don't think its hardy here. Speaking of the color, however, I wonder if you gave it a bunch of aluminum sulfate if you could make it lean more towards the purple/blue coloring? Anyway, I want to try this technique next spring with some of my reds.
Thanks for posting the gorgeous pictures!
I love this rose! I planted two and they have been slow to build, but the picture of health. I know of one here in Dallas growing against a chimney that is about 25' tall and just beautiful. Cl CS is just as tough as any china rose.
I may have to try this one! I do love the one year old bush I planted in a prime spot this year. And have thought of the cllimbing form, and just may put it where my second Mermaid was...a really cheerful red. The variation in the bush form is so refreshing...a charmer. Love seeing these tried and true roses get high marks!!
Maybe I'll be getting it eventually, Frances,and I'll grow it under the name of Agrippina, for SURE.At least on my computer,from Jeri's photo I'd say it's a pretty good colour...I do need climbing reds,and this one ought to do well in my climate. regards, bart
"I like its old name, Agrippina, better. Suits its prettiness & Agrippina the elder was supposedly a revered Roman matron."
I agree, bluegirl! To pronounce 'Cramoisi Superieur', you must choose to sound either like a total goober, or a pretentious twit.
Thanks so much, Bart, for planning to grow your Cramoisi as "Agrippina"! One of these days, I will digitize some of my old photos, and then I'll post a picture of my lovely Agrippina - and you can post a picture of her rose!
I spent some time looking into this earlier this year. 'Agrippina' appears to be the name bestowed on 'Cramoisi Superieur' when it arrived in the U.S. I guess we Yankees didn't like trying to pronounce 'Cramoisi Superieur' then, either!
I think it's sort of fun to pronounce. :-)
Oh yeah, when I actually (rarely) CAN pronounce the names correctly, I feel pretentious.
"Agrippina" brings back fond memories of "I, Claudius". Noble Agrippina the elder, doomed to early widowhood & exile; Livia, aka "Ulysess in petticoats", et. al. Plus it's just a pretty name.
Pretty rose, too. One of my very first OGRs. I think the photos represent its true color very well.
Pronouncing "Cramoisi Superior" brings a picture of Peter Seller's Inspector Clouseaut to my mind.
I think "Messalina" is another pretty name, but nobody's named a rose after THAT shameless hussy. Yet.
There's really nothing pretentious, tho, about pronouncing French rose names as they're supposed to be pronounced. It's just -- correct.
Oh yes, I know it's only proper & I like to know the correct way, but it feels strange to pronounce, say, Cecile Brunner, correctly unless I'm in a crowd of OGR folks.
I've had to change how I pronounce "Brahma", as in the cattle, THREE times to adapt to regionally differences in the same state, no less.
If you say "Say-SEEL' -- and anyone asks -- tell them, it was named for a lovely young Swiss girl -- not for Ol' Farmer Cecil Brooner.:-)
Now, you've told them something they'll remember with a smile, and educated 'em, to boot.
(And in case ya need to know, it's BRAY-ma, BRAH-ma, or Bremmer, depending on where you wander :p )
Well, the cattle grazing on my G-Grandpa's old ranch lands are all big, shiny, and black -- so I suspect they are neither BRAY-ma, BRAH-ma, or Bremmer -- and I won't disgrace myself by mispronouncing it. :-)
(At least, I learned how to pronounce Little Yegua.)