Constance Spry in one of the very few Austins that is a once-bloomer. She only blooms in the spring. Next spring she'll be covered with big fragrant pink blooms. Even in my zone she is a climber, so have some support for her or move her where you can tie her up.

Jude the Obscure is very frangrant and smells devine. Repeats less than some but so what--every flower is worth it.

Mary Rose is a classic and very fragrant and dependable. Tamora is beautiful but grows more stiffly, is very thorny, and shorter than most DAs.

Disease for all Austins is relative. There probably aren't any that are significantly disease-free, but some are worse than others. After you get your garden going, you will likely have to spray, esp. in zone 7 Delaware.

Austins are all beautiful, choose the ones that appeal to you the most and experiment. I have all the roses you mentioned above and love each and every one of them.

thanks for your input, veilchen (by the way, veilchenblau is one of the 13 roses I am getting in the Spring); I think Jude the Obscure looks like a definite (does it really smell like grapefruit, the way grapefruit "should be"?). will give other austins more consideration. Though, again, spraying is not an option, so we'll see how it goes. Perhaps the Alexandra Rose, or the Mayflower will fit the bill?

I find that the Austins get some blackspot late in the season, but still find them garden worthy.

Mortimer Sackler is a strong growing Austin rose, less blackspot than some of the others. Others that I love are Bishop's Castle and Evelyn. Evelyn repeats well, and has been a really reliable rose for me. It has excellent fragrance, like fresh peaches.

Krista, you are the first person, other than myself, who I have heard
compare Evelyn's fragrance to that of fresh peaches.
That's exactly what it smelled like to me. Fresh, sun-warmed peaches,
picked right off the tree.
(Sadly, the plant was not well-suited to my conditions.)

Golden Celebration, though, IS a champ here (as long as it gets lots
of water).
Once mature, we find that G.C. blooms in successive large flushes, if
you deadhead.
(IOW, it is not continuously in bloom.)

Jeri

Yes, you will definitely either a) have to spray, b) ditch a lot of underperforming, naked roses, or c) live with a bunch of underperforming, naked roses. Wishful thinking isn't going to make a rose more disease resistant. Showing them the books where it is written they are supposed to be disease resistant doesn't work either. I've tried.

Of the Austins I've tried, by far the best of the 'normal' ones has been Lilian Austin. It usually comes pretty close to defoliating during the summer, but usually only does it once. Heritage, for comparison, will defoliate several times over a summer. It is more noteworthy for being able to chug along without leaves here than for disease resistance. Tamora was just plain ungrowable.

BTW, disease resistance claims (and hardiness claims) on the Austin site do not belong to any world I am personally acquainted with. From my experience they just don't make sense. So I have wondered if they are reflections of English performance as opposed to anything on this side of the pond.

option c) of the 3, then; but before ditching any rose, will excessively mulch (probably not worth much, but I'm a believer in building up the soil & giving the plant the best chance to respond on its own) and am also considering the Peter Beales program from Ashdown (in the future, especially for the underperforming roses). Your opinion on the disease resistance of Austin's does seem to be the prevalent one.

Evelyn sounds good - believe that is one of Patrick's favorites - will consider (though, again, no spray; worst comes to worst there is always shovel pruning (option b)) & replacement with another rose (or berry bush) down the road).

TW, disease resistance claims (and hardiness claims) on the Austin site do not belong to any world I am personally acquainted with. From my experience they just don't make sense. So I have wondered if they are reflections of English performance as opposed to anything on this side of the pond.

*** There are some Austins that will grow clean in my part of SoCal -- though I suspect they are NOT among those that will grow clean in your area.
I think most of the descriptive information MUST be applicable to their "homeland."
It is surely not applicable to my garden.
Tamora AND Ambridge Rose were equally ungrowable for us. Not because of blackspot, but because of uncontrollable rust.
There are a few Austins that we'll probably always grow, but most of those that remain here are not, to us, worth the scarce water they require, and are on the way out.

Jeri

I grow Jude, Ambridge Rose, and Tamora no spray, along with a lot of other Austins.
Jude and Tamora both do OK no spray. They lose leaves, but it isn't as bad as the HTs and Fls, and they don't start dying back or anything like lots of my HTs and Fls have done. I love both of these, and will always grow them because of their wonderful fragrance.
Moving to no spray has really changed my outlook on disease resistance - and most of the moderns are going to go. But Jude and Tamora are here to stay. The leaf loss just isn't really THAT bad. They are both healthier, for example, than 2 of the teas that I believe that should be labelled HTs, Francois Dubruil and Puerto Rico.

2 of the teas that I believe that should be labelled HTs, Francois Dubruil and Puerto Rico

*** The rose sold as 'Francis Dubreuil' is almost certainly 'Barcelona,' a 1932 Kordes HT.
Check the 'Barcelona' entry at HelpMeFind.

The Note there is From Kim Rupert:

"The origin of the Francis Dubreuil/Barcelona confusion is identical to that for Irene Watts and Pink Gruss an Aachen. Bob Edberg imported Francis Dubreuil from Peter Beales. He rooted a plant for The Huntington, which he gave me to take to Clair Martin when I went out to volunteer. I did. That plant should still be in the Tea and China bed at The Huntington. I gave cuttings to Carolyn at Sequoia from this FD. I rooted them for the Huntington Plant Sales, and the one which still grows in what's left of my garden. The FD at Ashdown came from this plant, also.
Barcelona had grown in the gardens at The Huntington for decades. My plant, and that given to Ashdown and Sequoia, came from that plant, also. I still grow that plant, too. Both varieties are own root, and have been kept separate so as to prevent confusion. In my climate, there is no difference. I can also tell you when grown under plastic, at Sequoia, budded on a tree stock, the FD blooms are VERY much like those of Oklahoma. Try it, it's very interesting."

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Barcelona' at HMF

Jerijen, i guess you don't buy crabtree and evelyn products. Evelyn was named after the evelyn of c&e, and here is a link that describes the peach smell of evelyn.
Now you can buy parfum and smell like your rose, lol, i wonder if they'll come out with graham thomas after shave lotion for men?lol

Here is a link that might be useful: crabtree&evelyn and the austin evelyn rose

I have no rose diseases in my garden, but in terms of performance, fragrance and beauty I can recommend Harlow Carr, Bishop's Castle, Sister Elizabeth and Glamis Castle. Also Carding Mill, a beautiful apricot that blooms all the time for me and stays bushy and compact, although I haven't noticed much fragrance. I shovel pruned Tamora because she was such an ugly bush.

Good luck and much success in your no-spray garden. I applaud you for choosing not to use poisons.

Ingrid

Jerijen, i guess you don't buy crabtree and evelyn products.

*** Nope.
:-) They make me sneeze.

Jeri

If you are looking for the more disease-resistant Austins, you will have to sacrifice some of the typical Austin look most gardeners swoon over, but there are some that have better resistance--at least in my Zone 6 (midwest).

I've had almost no disease problems at all with these Austins: Mortimer Sackler, Mayflower, Blythe Spirit, Pretty Jessica, Queen of Sweden.

Sometimes I have a little problem with BS on the following, but most of the time they have good resistance: William Shakespeare 2000, Molineux, Happy Child, Jubilee Celebration, John Clare.

As for The Alexandra Rose, I'm not sure what to say. Mine has some disease problems, but I think it has more to do with needing more sunshine. It is in a too shady spot, I believe, but I have no where I can move it, unfortunately. The flowers are nice, but nothing to write home to Mom about.

Several of the newest offerings in the Austin catalog are described as "very healthy" or "particularly healthy." I have found Austin's descriptions fairly reliable and would probably try out some of those new ones which emphasize their healthiness if I had room for more Austin roses.

And I'd make sure my Austins had plenty of sunshine and airspace around them if I didn't plan on spraying at all.

Good luck. Wish I could be picking out some new Austins also.

Kate

YES to Tamora, you have to get this rose. Even DH notices it as a standout and I'm moving it to a more prominent spot in my yard. Good disease resistance, which in my yard is saying something. I do spray, but still get break outs at time when I'm lax and I don't think I've ever seen bs on Tamora.

Mary Rose is good, but gets a bit lanky in my yard and does get bad PM. I originally didn't like Heritage, but this year it has been a champ.

Another one I like is Fair Bianca. It is a small bush but puts out many rather large saucer shaped cream/white roses.

I love Austins.

Len, I have tested the Evelyn fragrance at Crabtree & Evelyn, and it does not smell at all like the rose Evelyn. If it did, i'd be my signiature scent! But it smells more like typical old-lady rose perfume. At least to my nose. Good marketing, but they totally missed capturing the true rose scent.

Geo:
As someone in close proximity to Northern Delaware, here are some of my thoughts on DAs.
For me Heritage does get some BS but it is always in bloom.
I recommend Sharifa Asma. It does get some BS but is it a beautiful, fragrant rose.
Mary Rose also gets some BS and it is an OK rose.
Jude does smell like grapefruit and gets better with age.
The jury is still out for me on Tamora. I'm not crazy about the fragrance, a little stingy on the blooms and it does get BS.
Out of all of my DAs, The Mayflower has the least amount of BS.
Evelyn is a lovely rose but the bush is a mess.
I think my all time favorite is Pat Austin with its unique color and light fragrance but it is not a long-lasting bloom.
If Harryshoe is around, he is another good local source of DAs, along with Olga.
Good luck!

No one has mentioned Abraham Darby. I never got around to spraying this year and this one came through most of the summer pretty clean. Even with the end of summer bs that so many of my roses get Abe did not defoliate. He remains covered in leaves which is important since I'm growing him as a climber. The blooms are rich in color and the fragrance is incredible to my nose. A real plus for me since I have trouble smelling most of my roses. Life isn't fair :-(

thanks, very much, all!! i'll try jude (this is the one that got me started on the matter in the first place) & sharifa (with future consideration, then, to the mayflower rose, tamora, abraham darby, lillian austin, mary rose, molineux & pretty jessica)

NOt much help from my side. I tried a lot of Austins, gave each one of then 3-5 years to prove themselves, but ALL required spraing in my opinion with the exception of Cobstance Spry.
I do have low tolerance to BS. Half naked bush is not resistant on my books, even if it continues to bloom.
Heritage, Jude, Sharifa, Mayflower, Tamora, Abraham Darby, Pat Austin,Evelyn,Blythe Spirit, Ambridge, Mary Rose, Benjamin Britten, and many many others were mostly leafless in my garden as well as in my sister's garden here in MD.
Constance Spry is much better then other Austins, less then 30% of leaf loss. Love this one.
Olga

Carrie said, The leaf loss just isn't really THAT bad. They are both healthier, for example, than 2 of the teas that I believe that should be labelled HTs, Francois Dubruil and Puerto Rico.

I guess that just shows that location is everything. Puerto Rico is bs resistant here and hasn't defoliated in its 2 years in the ground. I'd like to try Heritage but figure all the rest of the Austins wouldn't survive no spray for me. :(

It always makes me smile to hear others say that Evelyn is a mess as a plant. Mine is a huge rampaging climber, fifteen feet! I had to put in an arbor to support it! It will blackspot here if unsprayed (like everything else) but is on the healthier side if a cycle or two is missed. And the fragrance! To. Die. For.

Elaine

I grow many Austins roses no-spray here. I tolerate more leaf loss than Olga does in her garden down the road, but I have found a few to be quite good or acceptable nevertheless (keep more than 50% of leaves and not lose vigor). Heritage has always been a favorite, like others have said Constance Spry is exceptional. Others that are good are Prospero, Sharifa Asma, Crocus Rose, WS2000, The Generous Gardener, Sweet Juliet, and Teasing Georgia. Strangely enough, I found the Mayflower to be susceptible to BS and dieback and got rid of it as the flowers didn't wow me. Tamora never gets more than 2' high and struggles a bit. Jude the Obscure has rather awkward, leggy growth, but those flowers smell wonderful and I put up with her. Abraham Darby is rather stunted from BS also, but struggles along and pumps out blooms.

About Mayflower, I just about spaded her a couple months ago. Although she had no disease, she didn't flower that much, the flowers were on the smaller side, and the buds often would not open unless I manually pulled back the outer petals--still all true even in her third year. Since I was busy, I just gave her a severe pruning and promised myself she would be replaced come this next spring planting. I no sooner came to that conclusion, then guess what--Mayflower took off growing and blooming like she never had before. She's vigorous, has nice healthy dark green leaves, much bigger blooms that open on their own, and pretty much a continuous bloomer now. I wouldn't get rid of her for anything now--I really, really like her now.

Moral of the story: Although one has to patient with many Austins since they don't always perform that well until their third year, it is also helpful sometimes to scare the dickens out of a malingering plant in order to get it to perform up to par. LOL

Kate

The most disease resistant Austin I have is St. Swithun.

ok-then considered St. Swithun, in lieu of Sharifa. Decided to stay with Sharifa, as I'll be getting Allegra in the Spring, which I understand has the same fragrance as St. Swithun, and the fragrance of Sharifa (honey, I believe), will be a nice (breakfast) interplay with Jude the Obscure (grapefruit).

Don't grow English Roses if your not willing to spray fungicides. EVELYN will be naked as a plucked chicken by mid-summer.

If I were you I'd look into some of the hardier Teas and Shrub Roses like DUCHESSE DE BRABANT/MME. JOSEPH SCHWARTZ and BELINDA'S DREAM. Another good pink is RADIANCE and her deeper pink sport RED RADIANCE. For a big impressive shrub try MRS. B.R. CANT. Need something more dramatic? Try the striped CARELESS LOVE. A good yellow is the Tea-Noisette DUCHESSE D'AUERSTADT. For coral/orange try CLEMENTINA CARBONIERI. Want red? Try FIELD'S OF THE WOOD, although it gets really big. Lastly, SOUVENIR DE LA MALMAISON is a lovely, disease resistant light pink that should be in every garden.

Don't know that I entirely agree with you, Patrick, based on my (granted, limited) experience with Heritage & Constance Spry. Though Golden Celebration is, so far, somewhat unimpressive. As I was convinced of earlier, by Randy, perfect foliage is, to me, not quite so important as the health of the plant & the intrinsic beauty/fragrance of the flower (limited exception of fragrance over beauty will be made in the case of Desiree Parmentier-perhaps I do rate fragrance over beauty; there is this one white lily, don't know the name, that I will have to get at some point).
And I was sorely tempted by Evelyn, but concur to the expressed opinion.
By coincidence, Duchesse de Brabant IS part of my "down the road" plan (together with Jude, Sharifa, Marie Pavie, the Kordes climber Laguna & Crepuscule). Or would Duchesse d'Auerstadt be preferable in my area to Crepuscule?
Have long been considering SDLM-but where to draw the line on Bourbons? Have 3 that are doing well (Louise Odier, Mme. Isaac Pereire & Deuil de Dr. Reynaud), especially the last 2. In my area, should SDLM be in full sun (and doesn't it tend to ball in humid conditions?) or, like MIP & DdDR, does it do better in part shade? And what are the fragrances like on the roses you mention (and how strong)?

One other thought, Patrick; next to Golden Celebration I have Clothilde Soupert (the bush, not the climber). A very pretty flower, but does ball/rot in humid conditions. How much, if any, superior to the bush is the climber and, if so, in what way(s)?

Hi geo7a

I agree most of my English roses require spray here too.

From your list of Austins, it appears that you only have those globular, cup-shaped roses instead of those quartered shaped ones with button eye at the centre (ie. Tea Clipper, WS2000 etc).

Perhaps you should try some quartered shaped / rosette ones later on. They look really beautiful. I love Tea Clipper, almost identical to Crown P. M. and the blooms look great as cut-flowers - although they don't last long. Summer Song last much longer.

Jude the Obscure is a great choice too - it's a late bloomer for me, and the scent is incredible! The bush is healthy than my other Austins.
Do you guys find the Austins messy? Every morning I have to sweep the ground because of those fallen petals.

Perhaps that's another factor you should consider when choosing an Austin : one that last long .

In my area, should SDLM be in full sun (and doesn't it tend to ball in humid conditions?)

*** We have tried to grow SDLM here many times. It's no better adapted to our conditions than any other Bourbon -- which means, not good at all.
In addition to disease problems, it balled ALL of the time.
I have never seen it open here, ever.
The petals are very thin and delicate, and any hint of our normal coastal humidity destroys them.

Jeri

Clothilde has a real balling problem for me and it doesn't usually start looking good until the fall. It really annoys me because it is in such a prominent location. SdlM balls a little in the spring but is fine after that. Everyone is giving you good advice for their location which may not always be good for your location.

Don't let Jeri scare you. She doesn't get the hot summer temps needed to open SOUVENIR DE LA MALMAISON and CLOTILDE SOUPERT.

Now as for CLOTILDE, I definitely prefer the climber. The beautiful blooms are wasted on the short shrub, although like most Polyanthas it blooms non-stop. As a climber CLOTILDE is superb in almost every way. For one the thorns are small and widely spaced, making it easy to grasp the canes without getting mauled. Second, the canes are long and flexible. Third, both the climber and shrub grow quickly on their own roots, hitting the ground running and never turning back. Third, the repeat bloom is truly exceptional, especially for the climber. I can't tell you how many times I've been disappointed with the repeat of large flowered climbers, but this climbing Polyantha blooms PROFUSELY in the spring then doles out flowers at a regular rate before launching a fall flush that is almost as good as the first. Finally, very good black spot resistance. Her one fault is that balling problem, which really isn't too bad where summers are hot. Heat being the necessary factor for the silky blooms to open under humid conditions. Either that or you can always blow a strong puff of air on the buds to "crack" them open. Actually you really just need to loosen the outer petals.

Why do I put up with the balling? Well, when the flower do open they are perfectly formed and gloriously fragrant. The color is another bonus. Pristine white blushed delicate lilac pink in the middle. Extended vase life too and loooong stems (on the climber only).

In Eastern Texas she is worth a try. This rose was MADE for the south.

Don't let Jeri scare you. She doesn't get the hot summer temps needed to open SOUVENIR DE LA MALMAISON and CLOTILDE SOUPERT.

*** YOu're right.
Tho the way our climate is altering, we might not have that problem
much longer. :-)

Jeri