Once upon a time, I had a gallica from ParkWayside. I don't know which Gallica it was, I just know it wasn't what it was labeled.
It stayed grafted and never went walkabout, which is unusual as I planted it with the graft union low (I didn't know any better back then).
It ended up with about 25 canes coming out from this central area and many of them flopped over (All 25 didn't have the room to be upright-physically impossible.)
I think the grafted ones are a great way to see which you really want. Or the ones you want enough to let them run free.

My experience with grafted gallicas is they eventually revert to own root. And you should bury the bud union anyway. You can always dig up the runners and give them away!

So Paul, when are you coming up to dig? And you are bringing addresses of places to send them?

It's not necessarily nearly that simple.

Pickering grafts to Multiflora so you dont have a really long neck like you do with Dr Huey..but there is the issue of Multiflora not being so long lived as a root stock so if you dont plant the graft you could eventually lose the bush. I dont have much problem with my Pickering Gallicas spreading when they are in clay soils but in my sandy loam they are more apt to roam a little-especially the classic spreaders like Jenny Duval. Otherwise you do get a nicely shaped shrub that will need regular thinning as the bush matures.

patricia

Ann brings up a similar experience that I have encountered. I've often wondered about my Cardinal de Richelieu, purchased from Wayside back in 1993 (or 94). It may be grafted on Manetti (or Dr. H). It hasn't suckered, and I need to check on the height of the graft union, it might still be above ground. It does do the floppy-octopus thing. Interesting.

Here are 3 of the grafted gallicas I bought from Pickerings this year. They arrived and were planted out early May, these pics are from mid July.
2 of the 4 gallicas I bought actually gave a few flowers in July.

Tuscany Superb

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Belle Isis

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Belle Sans Flatterie

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Tuscany Superb and Belle sans Flatterie are quite a lot bigger now.
I have been amazed at how fast these have grown, I also bought some albas that have grown very quickly.
Hope these pics help.

Thanks to everyone that answered. Very useful info about Pickering plants.

Maggiepie - Thank you, thank you! Your pictures were just what I needed to see, and I'm very impressed with the size of your plants after such a short time. (BTW that soil looks great.)

So where do I place the bud union? A bit below soil level? I'm planting into heavily amended heavy clay. (Most people learn about grafted roses first; I'm backward as usual.)

Elizabeth

Elizabeth, these are the first OGRs I have tried, I planted the roses with the grafts buried 3-4 inches below the surface.
It gets very cold here in winter, can get down to the low minus 30's C which is around -26F.

Elizabeth,
I've planted my more recent grafted on multi roses with the bud union about two inches below the average soil (not mulch level). But I leave it exposed in a depressed bowl shape, so that if we were to get the -28F temps we got in the 1980s, that I could push soil and mulch over the union.
This also helps retain a bit of warmth in spring. Spring is my rough time, when the roses want to start growing in early February (thanks to the ususal late January warm spell). I also get weeds growing then and I will toss the weeds on the new basals as well as mulch to protect them from the February freezes.

Roses respond to warm soil and warmth in general. But the roses can't be taught to ignore the January false spring that happens many, many years.

I was wondering about the grafted gallicas from Pickering myself lately. They have some interesting ones available.

Own-root roses have been much more successful in my garden, so I have developed a prejudice against grafted roses. But on other hand, I realize that my grafted roses did not come from the best sources. I started rose growing with a few from Wayside and a Kmart bodybag. Ugh.

Maggiepie - great photos. I bet you can't wait 'til Spring!

Maureen

Pickering buds the Gallicanae section onto R. laxa, not R. multiflora.

Do you happen to know if some of the other OGRs would be on laxa from Pickering?
The centifolias and albas I had from Pickering were extremely great growers where ownroots don't like my soils as well.
Thanks.

Yes, they bud all of the Gallicanae onto R. laxa, which includes the Damasks, Centifolias, etc.

Paul, is there a specific reason why Pickering uses Laxa over
Multiflora for budding all their OGR?

Maggiepie, your newly planted bushes look very happy and healthy. Are you purchasing any more OGR?

Countryrose, I am not planning on ordering for next year. I want to see how the ones I have winter.
I bought 12 OGRs this year, plus more DA roses.
Think I might have already bitten off more than I can chew.
Where in Canada are you?
I'm in NB

Ann- Thanks for the planting depth recommendations. I don't have problems with late January warm spells; it doesn't get really cold here until January. (Usually - in the past - this year who knows.) But as you say Spring is my rough time with major temperature swings.

Does the use of R. laxa for rootstock change what is appropriate? I'm not familiar with R. laxa at all.

Elizabeth

I do grow an R. Laxa and it likes the sandy loam it's in. If the Gallicinae that I had from Pickering are any guide, laxa also likes the heavier clays. I don't think I've got the laxa rootstock growing on its own.
My guess would be that laxa rootstock accepts buds of this group better than some other rootstocks. Or it could be that the growers just prefer it for those.

Sometime y'all might want to read some of the rose books that are on Google Books. Back in the 1800s, there was a lot of concern about matching roses to the optimum rootstocks. Recently I found a symposium (actually part 2 of a symposium) in which there was a discussion of what rootstocks worked better in New England. Hovey was a major name and it was a good read ...you'd feel comfortable because it was a bunch of rose people, sitting around, talking roses, a century and a half ago.

Googling "Transactions Massachusetts Horticultural Society" 187* and Hovey and Roses and rootstock should turn it up.

"My guess would be that laxa rootstock accepts buds of this group better than some other rootstocks."

Correct. That is what Pickering staff told me 15 years ago, anyway.

I can do heavy clay!

Thanks for reminding me about the Google rose books. I downloaded and read quite a few of them but I wasn't paying attention to the bits about budded roses since I don't have any. I will have to reread.

Elizabeth

Does Pickering also put its spinossisimas on laxa? I have an old Harison's Yellow from them that suckers laxa, but it dates back to the days when they claimed all the hardier roses were deliberately not on multiflora.

The reason I'm curious is that about five years ago, I ordered a lot of spinossisimas from Pickering that have done very, very well. However, everything else I've planted that I know was on multiflora has struggled until it's gone own-root. The soil pH is admittedly too high for multifloran comfort, but the caninae go crazy.

I lost the download I had, and it was a b...to refind it.

http://books.google.com/books?id=w_0VAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA45&dq=Transactions+Mass+Hort+Soc+%22rose+roses+%22&lr=&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=0amp;as_miny_is=1860&as_maxm_is=0amp;as_maxy_is=1880&as_brr=0#v=onepage&q=roses&f=false

This should get you to the pages in Transactions of the Massachusetts Horticultural Society.

The search within the book has lots of references to roses, but Hovey is there, but for some reason, the search doesn't key on his name.

I find it kind of odd that Manetti was good in New England.

Here is a link that might be useful: This might truncate the end of the link

Do we know for sure that Pickering is still using Laxa? I remember some time ago hearing that they had switched to using all Multiflora. I ask because I have a R. gallica species rose that died and came up multiflora-the only rose I have ever had from them do that. That was 2006. I would be glad to hear they are still using Laxa as I know it is much longer lived...just wondering?

patricia

Olga- Glad to hear that Pickering gallicas do well in your clay - I hope they will do well in mine. To go back to one of my original questions - how deep (or not deep) do you plant the bud union on your grafted gallicas? As I said, I want more gallicas but have almost run out of places where they can be own root, so I am going to try grafted.

Elizabeth

I plant then approx 1-2 inches below the soil level.
Olga

Thanks Olga. I will pay more attention to the roots when I get my Fall order. I like knowing what the rootstock is-I can add that to my Database. Since I practically only get the once bloomers the spready sort of rootstock I am seeing must be Laxa.

patricia