I am the original poster of this message. I haven't had a chance to take photos yet but I will do that soon. I remember when I looked on the ground around the base of my roses, it was as if the leaves had just disintegrated. The leaves weren't even in big enough pieces to see what happened to them. As I said before, I had been distracted with houseguests and other things for awhile so I didn't notice this problem until it was way too late to look at the leaves and try to diagnose what happened. The leaves just seemed to have ended up on the ground as a sawdust-like material. I will look tonight to see if there are any new signs of leaves. They have been without leaves for a long time now. I did think of one thing that I did differently this spring. In addition to an extremely steamy, humid and wet spring and early summer, I put down a heavy layer of shredded wood mulch from Southern States. Not sure exactly what it was comprised of. I usually use a thin layer of pine chips.

This is a fun and very enlightening discussion folks! Your story about New Dawn, Kim, seems to support the notion that the extent to which hips interfere with a rose's blooms depend on the "energy" reserves that the rose has to draw upon. Tough as nails roses like Knockout (as Michael mentioned) or the roses Jackie and Zack mentioned have such a reservoir of health and energy that hips are unlikely to affect them much in any climate unless something else interferes with their vitality. Notorious wimps like Tom Brown or Grey Pearl might be killed by one hip any time anywhere, assuming they set any in the first place. In your story of New Dawn, it sounds like the rose was able to build up a greater store of energy reserves in a climate pattern more to its liking, and therefore the hips affected it to a much lesser extent. I was wondering a related question to Michael's - is every rose hip that spontaneously appears on a bush pollinated so as to produce viable seed, and could it matter that you are deliberately trying to get your roses "pregnant" in your breeding efforts, which might take more energy for the rose than a random hip popping up here and there. I'm thinking of the analogy of chickens, and I don't know if it applies here. When chickens have a set of fertilized eggs, they shift all their energies from laying new eggs to brooding and caring for the bunch. The unfertilized eggs that we eat are expected to be "ever-blooming", however, every day or two. I imagine that you're also leaving the hips on the rose far longer than the random hips I encounter, which also makes a difference as you've already said in the recycle rate. Related to your squirrel comment, would it help to tie a netting or panty hose segment over the crosses to keep it on the bush even if the critters mess with it? Exhibitors seem to do something of the sort for show blooms. I could totally see me getting manic if a cross that I've waited years to develop got carried off by a witless tree rat that didn't really want to eat it anyway, and buried it somewhere in my neighbor's yard! Thanks for the enlightenment, everyone! Cynthia

So you want one of my ÂLuciferÂsÂ, huh, High? How about planning a day trip down to the big city on September 8th? >>hint - hintItÂs too hot to even think about sending one out your way right now, but if youÂre still interested when the weather cools, you can send me more stamps and IÂll get one out to you! But itÂll be little! The swap ones are too! There really arenÂt very many red hardy perennials, but hereÂs a couple more you might consider. Lychnis chalcedonica http://www.robsplants.com/plants/LychnChalc.php Geum ÂMrs. Bradshaw http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/imageDetails?invocationType=imageDetails&query=geum+chiloense&img=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naturehills.com%2Fproduct_images%2Fthumbnails%2Fmrs_bradshaw_geum.jpg&site=&host=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.garden-helper.com%2FShop%2Fperennials.asp&width=96&height=96&thumbUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fimages-partners-tbn.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AGPSHjdz2Y6YjKM%3Awww.naturehills.com%2Fproduct_images%2Fthumbnails%2Fmrs_bradshaw_geum.jpg&b=image%3FinvocationType%3Dtopsearchbox.image%26query%3Dgeum%2Bchiloense http://www.peoriagardens.com/images/perennials/GeumMrsBradshaw.jpg I wouldnÂt have even thot of the Geum, except I started some Lychnis from (store bought) seed this spring, and the leaves sure do look like Geum leaves to me! I hope itÂs at least the red Geum, rather than the yellow, but IÂll just have to wait till next year when it blooms to see what IÂve actually got! IÂm waiting for the ÂLucifer to open a little bit more, and then IÂll take another picture and post it. It is absolutely one of the most striking perennials IÂve ever seen. This is the first year itÂs really looked goodÂlike so many of my other things. Last year it was so infested with mites that it never bloomed at allÂso itÂs been a LONG wait. This year itÂs been fed a steady diet of systemic insecticide. I was NOT gonna go another year with no flowers! I havenÂt tried the milk yet! So far the baking soda with DW soap if working pretty well. IÂll post on the other thread when I do try the milk. IÂm really curious myself. How are you doing out there in dirt  ÂSilt? None of the fires are too close to you, are they? Hope all is well, Skybird

Yeah you're right that's probably why too. I got another rose around that area too and it's got quite big so I think that was taking a lot of the sunlight too. I tried to cut down the tree a bit, but it's too tall so I will have to get one of those electric cutters to cut it. I was going to move it to another place, but was told it wouldn't be best to do it now. Yeah lol I'm not giving up on it unless it's too late lol, I was meant to use the compost tea, but forgot to put it down so when I have a cup of tea I'll remember to keep the bags to put down around there.