I only grow The Dark Lady and William Shakespeare 2000. I am in a very different climate from you (Orange County California). Both these roses do well for me. I have not grown Othello or L.D. Braithwaite.

The Shakespeare 2000 rose is better for me than Dark Lady. It is a very nice plant.

Jerome

I have WS 2000 now and had Tradescent at another house.
My William Shakespeare wasn't well rooted when I got him so I think that is why it has been rather slow to establish. The flowers are beautiful (crimson that tends toward dark pink) and very fragrant. I don't spray, so it does blackspot. It has been improving each year as far as flower production and health. If you spray, I think you would be very happy with it.

I grew Tradescent as a bush at my old place and I think I am going to get it again and grow it as a small climber. It was pretty disease resistant and the flowers were a great shade of dark red and very fragrant. As a shrub it would just sprawl along the ground and you'd have to get on your hands and knees to smell the blooms. But since then I have seen it grown on a pillar and it looked great.

I have WS2000. The blooms are very gorgeous and have an exquisite warm fragrance. The blooms tend to open as a very vibrant magenta color and then fade off to a darker crimson/purplish tone. Very pretty rose. The bush itself is rather bizarre. It likes to throw out lateral canes instead fo vertical canes so it's more likely to be a mature 3x4 rose instead of a mature 4x3 rose. Mine gets spotty mildew although most all my roses get mildew to an extent and my WS2000 in an area that gets the least sun out of all my roses.

I'll be interested in hearing responses. Austin has very few true reds and a fair amount of dark reds/purples. Off the top of my head, the ones that come to mind are.

The Knight
The Squire
Glastonbury
The Prince
Prospero
Tradescant
WS
WS2000
The Dark Lady
Fisherman's Friend
LD Braithwaith

I'm contemplating getting The Squire, The Knight, and Prospero in the spring as I don't have any real reds and these varieties are not as widely grown as the others.

WS2000 is a terrific rose, free-blooming with very large, very fragrant flowers and a compact 4 x 4 habit. It is dark crimson in cool weather but at other times deep fuchsia or purple-pink, colors that needs to be kept very far away from modern true reds. Good for cutting. The foliage of mine is very prone to showing deficiency symptoms, iron, manganese, and magnesium all in the same season, even though the pH isn't far off the ideal. Disease susceptibility is not bad for an Austin.

I love Prospero and strongly recommend it for z. 7. Although it is a very small plant, it repeats very well with large, fragrant blooms having wonderful form and colors (crimson aging to mauve), good for cutting. Plant two or three together if you can. It is resistant to rust, mildew, Cercospora, and (partially) blackspot.

I have Sophy's Rose and Tess new this year. I chose them for the wonderful cherry-red hues. Sophy is a compact shrub that repeats heavily and rapidly if deadheaded. Tess wants to be a climber-sprawler. Both are somewhat resistant to blackspot so far, but neither is very fragrant.

I've discarded LD Braithwaite (bright modern red, not fragrant), Othello (intractable monster plant, not many flowers), and Falstaff (lots of disease).

Oh, and Fisherman's Friend is a hyper-thorny disease magnet that produces a lot of ugly vegetative centers.

Othello's a punk. He gave me a lot of attitude, and then he died. & I am in pretty easy rose country (Sonoma County, CA)

The place I would be planting this rose would be in a bed along a 4 ft. chain link fence and roughly 6 ft away from the Hybrid Musk Lavender Lassie which is planted on the South East corner of our house. I donÂt know how much this would affect suggestions.

I had the same experience with my Othello. I had high hopes for it but it never turned out and then died.

Scott

Michael, how would Prospero's blooms compare to WS2000's blooms in terms of size and color?

Would you be interested in Old Garden Roses, though they may not be "English Roses"? Because you should check out a post on this forum from January - I think it was called "What are the best three roses?" or perhaps it was "What are your favorite three roses?". I think it was Luanne who posted a photo of Chateau de Clos Vougeot, which is a GORGEOUS deep rich red. Jon in Wessex also posted 3 photos, and I think one of them was a wonderful dark red, but am not so sure after all this time - it may have been more of a purple... but wonderful.

From the responses so far it sounds like people really like Tradescant, WS 2000, and Prospero. I think next to Lavender Lassie each of these would work well. In fact, putting images of each one beside Lassie I like the darker color of both Tradescant and Prospero. I think with the fence as a support I could keep from having to crawl on the ground to smell them.

Scott

If you are looking for a true red (that does not age to purplish hues), you might consider Braveheart. It is not an English rose but has Austin's Dark Lady in its ancestry. It has large, full red-red blooms--or maybe I would describe them as velvety ruby red--so wonderful. Just don't put it any where near WS2000--clashing "reds"!!!

The bush itself is about 3.5 x 3.5 ft. Not a disease-magnet, but it will need occasional spraying. Some fragrance, but that is not its outstanding trait.

Here's Braveheart (last year's pic):

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Kate

Organic Tosca and Kate thanks for the non-English Rose recommendations. I had wondered about Braveheart but have not had any experience with it so I am glad to hear that you have enjoyed it. It looks beautiful. It doesnÂt need to be an English Rose but I do like a graceful garden plant, old rose form in flower, repeat blooming, fragrant, and as disease resistant as possible. I know - I want it all. I think the best Hybrid Musk roses met this as do the best English Roses.

I have not known or thought about Chateau de Clos Vougeot but I did find the discussion you mentioned and it is beautiful. The thread is, "What (Currently) Would You Name As The Three Most Beautiful Roses." Even if I donÂt use it here I think I might use it somewhere else. Do you grow it and if so how does it do in your garden? Some early Hybrid Teas had a nice form and habit.

Scott

I grow WS2000, Othello, LD Braithwaite, Prospero, but what is turning out to be my favorite is The Dark Lady. I like the huge flowers.

Jeffcat,

The blooms of Prospero are consistently large (3-1/2") and single stemmed. WS2000 usually bears triplets for me and the blooms vary from 3 to 4". Colors of Prospero evolve as the flowers age, with the outer petals turning from ruby red or crimson to garnet to mauve in concentric zones. Colors of WS2000 vary with the weather from strong purple-pinks to deep crimson.

Let me emphasize that Prospero is a small shrub and will have winter damage at around zero F. Mike_Rivers enjoys it a a dieback shrub in z. 5. It is probably best in z. 7-10 and is happy with either warm or fairly cool summers.

Tradescant has become one of my favorite Austins. Not only for the rapid repeat and fragrance, but for the easy in controlling the size. It would be great on a low fence..mine is growing up a pole support and allowed to fountain some. I haven't really pruned except to keep off some neighbors. The longer I've had this rose (about 4 years), the better I like it.

A red Austin that I haven't seen mentioned above that you might consider is Benjamin Britten. He's been above average in repeat, though does like to get back to a certain size before repeating..I've been ruthless on pruning my 2 because of their location.

Wow! Now I want to grow them all. I do have this other spot with nothing in it. Seriously, I can plant one in the original location and try a couple of others in a different location.

Andrea, it was almost 20 years ago when I tried Othello so my memory is incomplete, but it could have been the location or the particular plant but it just did not do well and I have had good success with most roses I have grown. Hopefully I will have better luck with what I plant now.

Scott

I know how you feel wellrounded. I want them all too. In all honesty, I will become obsessive and once I have the funds to do so, I will just purchase every Austin ever produced and go from there...not joking either. After that, then I will just have to get all of the antique, hybrid teas, etc....I better buy a large plot of land...hmmmm. haha

Jeffcat, I won't go as far as you but when Spring comes I will have ordered more than my wife will have cared for. But in the Summer when I am bringing in roses each morning she will forgive me.

Does anyone know of an own-root source for Tradescant, WS 2000, and Prospero? I have bought most of my roses from Heirloom over the years but they do not care these varieties.

Scott

There are probably various places you can purchse them if you just look at the vendor list via helpmefind.com, but I believe Roses Unlimited sells all 3 of them and they and people have said that their bands or roses are much larger own-roots from Roses Unlimited.

Here is a link that might be useful: Roses Unlimited

Sorry, I really don't know anything about Chateau de Clos Vougeot's toughness or disease vulnerability, as I have not grown it. I just think it's beautiful. I do have a small early HT called Nigrette, one of whose parents is Chateau de Clos Vougeot. Nigrette is a wonderful DARK red, but I can't say it's the most vigorous rose I'm growing. However, that is probably (at least, in part) due to my ignorance - I am learning as I go along.

Chateau de Clos Vougeot - I'd give it a definite no, sorry. The one I grew in NC was an ungainly gangly, floppy, unvigorous totally disease ridden plant, a PM and BS magnet of the highest caliber. The few blooms it produced were nice, but so are those of many other much much better reds. Scrap it.

As to own root Austins - I'd recommend that you get them grafted from DA directly. Theirs are usually of highest quality and have always performed superbly for me, much better than the own root versions I grew. For instance: my grafted Dark Lady from DA had significantly bigger flowers and always remained a bigger plant than my own root version which could never catch up.

Andrea

Jeffcat, Thanks for the Roses Unlimited link. Heirloom used to carry all the new English roses but for some reason they don't have these.

Andrea, thanks for the word of caution on Chateau de Clos Vougeot. About 15-20 years ago I made a real effort to switch to own-root roses from the discussions on the OGR newsgroup. I haven't been on any rose boards until I signed up for this one after our recent move. BTW, this has been a great group to read. I have often thought about trying a grafted rose again, mostly because I could readily find what I was looking for as a grafted rose. It would be interesting to plant an own-root and grafted of the same variety side by side and compare the progress. I'm sure others here have already done this and documented the results.

Scott

I have WS2000, The Prince, LD Braithwaite, The Squire, and one from Heirloom Roses, Scarlet Velvet. I also have a few red old garden roses. This is the 4th year, I think, for WS2000, and it finally decided to grow. It took that hard Easter freeze of 2 years ago rather hard, but it has come back. The Squire is only an own-root band in its first year. It has started to bloom and looks okay so far. This is LD Braithwaite's 5th year, and this year it finally started to put on a credible show having a small, but steady supply of flowers. Heat really cuts down petal count and flower size on this rose. This is the second year for The Prince. It has done quite well. It has had several rounds of flowers. Scarlet Velvet started out as a band and is doing reasonably well for its either 2d or 3d year. From what I have seen of my Austins in general, the grafted ones seem to do better, and as others have pointed out, the Austins take time. As to the old garden roses, some are better on their own roots. My biggest headaches with this OGR group are some unwieldy growth habits, blackspot, and canker.

I've tried fishermans friend, the dark lady, and the squire.
ff was also a bs magnet for me, it's gone.
tdl is, too, but it is a good bloomer. but to me it's not really red, more like magenta, so it's getting sp'ed.
The squire I like. good bloomer. blooms start out red and age to a wine color.

Traviata - it's not english but of similar type.
it's been trouble free and a good bloomer. I bought 1 and propagated 2 more. The only thing I have to do is spray every two weeks (which is pretty good for around here) and fert in the spring. 1 grows in the shade and still looks good.

Dennis,

The only picture I have seen of Traviata is a single flower with a black back drop. It is beautiful but what is Traviata's growth habit like?

Scott

Traviata is an oversized hybrid tea with bolt-upright growth and flowers upright at the top of the plant. New canes can be an inch thick and 6-7' tall. The plant can grow 10' in a season if you don't take lots of cane with each deadhead. It has large, dense, glossy, dark green foliage that is disease resistant in many gardens but moderately susceptible here to BS and Cercospora (clean with spray). Flowers are large, non-fragrant, old-fashioned in form, modern dark red in color, good for cutting. They stand up to heavy rain like no other very-double rose.

I always missed the scent on Traviata when I grew it in NC. It had absolutely nothing, nada, could have been cardboard. Like a pretty rose without a soul. I guess that's why I didn't like it too much. ;-(

Andrea

I agree, Andrea, but I've kept my Traviata a long time because it's reliable and it provides height without the hassle of wrapping and complex pruning. The color doesn't go with purply reds at all, but it is a nice color that, unlike some dark reds, carries across the garden. And I do appreciate it after a downpour when the other roses are beaten down.

Agreed, Michael. Well, I actually can't really say that I didn't like it, but the total lack of even the slightest scent was always a big disappointment to me. With that color and name, it looked like it had to have profumo!

Andrea

I pretty much agree with Michael, here's my experience:

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=12702
Apparently there are two by the same name . Mine is fully double.

I have three
1) Seven years old grafted, going strong, full sun. about 8' high x 4' wide. Blooms all of the time. stays fully leaved if sprayed every 2 wks (this is good for around here).
I never dead head, too lazy.
2) six yrs old, rooted from #1, full sun. about the same as #1
3) six yrs old, rooted from #1, partial to full shade under an oak. about half the size of #2, but healthy doesn't bloom as much but is much healthier than roses I've pampered.

I've just come in from taking cuttings from the roses that rate rare treasure status in my garden. I just stuck three cuttings of The Squire. He is now virtually impossible to find in Canada and I hope to root some cuttings for insurance in my cold climate.

He/she/it,is, as are most old fashioned red roses, a "DIVA" in my garden. But I have grown him in a large pot since I stumbled upon a plant about five years ago. He blooms well for me, though the plant is short, + or - two feet and is very upright in growth. Fragrance varies with the weather, but there is a noticeable Damask fragrance when temperatures are not too hot.

The Squire gets some blackspot but not enough to defoiate, I do not spray. In fact this year, he has almost no spotted leaves even in October and is in fact cleaner the WS 2000 and Tradescent who are in pots adjacent to him.

After reading the posts on this thread, I looked at the reviews for The Squire on Help Me Find and the quote below struck me as expressing how I feel about this rose better than I am likely to do myself.

"Nothing quite matches the beauty of a well formed bloom from The Squire. The single bush is ugly, but plant two together, or three a foot apart in a triangle and it is less noticeable."

I love The Squire for the huge, bright crimson, old fashioned flowers. No other red comes close in my view and I've grown or grow the majority of the reds mentioned on this thread.

Each to their own, but for me, The Squire is a rose I don't want to be without.

Cheers,

Rick

I grow William Shakespeare (perfect also in bouquets), Tradescant and The Prince. The last one is the one I prefer because of its delicious fragrance but also because it is very dark. Difficult to reproduce the exact colour in photo :

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Here is a link that might be useful: A Little Bit of Paradise

Just a FYI, I understand the rootstock David Austin is using is Dr Huey and my understanding is that the rootstock is virused and they have not corrected it

WS2000 has a beautiful fragrance. After 3 years,the short own root plant I have still grows so slowly. I want to try a grafted one. Othello wrestles for space between 2 large OGRs and smells heavenly. I just cut off any cane sticking out in the path. I really like Othello even though he is a thorny monster.