In our area, many crepe myrtles mildew rather badly.
But, geeze -- they're TREES!

Jeri

Huh. It never even occured to me to spray my crepe myrtles! Funny, considering I spray the roses like clockwork every Sat.
To address your question, I have a CM in the middle of a bed and I don't think it's bothering the roses. Yes the fluffy spent flowers make a bit of a mess, but the tree is sooooo pretty I can't imagine getting rid of it.

Elaine

The black stuff is exactly like what buford described, so it probably is some kind of mildew. There is no crowding problem that should cause that. It must just be prone. I am not going to spray. For one thing, I've quite spraying. It's too hot here, and I don't want the chemical exposure. To spray this thing results in spray material raining down on me, no matter how careful I am.

Jeri, mine HAS become a tree, and I noticed that it does shade Marechal Niel in the morning, (for awhile, then he's in full sun). That's not a good thing for a rose prone to balling. This CM was supposed to stay small (supposed to be a dwarf, ha, ha!) and it is probably 20 feet tall right now. It is only about 4 years old.

I grow 'em big here.

Sandy

The black stuff is mildew and all "old timey" cultivers will become infected if not sprayed. The new ones that are popular today are resistant to it.
Now, I like you, planted one in my front yard and it became a tree in about 4 years. I liked it fine but not where it was so I finally cut it down, now I have about a a hundred shoots that grow like weeds all summer. I have to cut them every few days, they grow like kudzoo! About the only way to get rid of a crepe Myrtle is to move!!
Leda

Oh my goodness Leda! I talked to a tree removal person, and he said for $75 he would remove it, and grind the stump down enough to help prevent those suckers from coming up.

I'm like you, I like it, but not enough to put up with slimey mildew, especially in a rose bed.

Birds don't nest in it either, so that isn't an issue. They seem to prefer my rose bushes.

Sandy

Sandy, My hubby cut it all the way down to the ground, I couldn't dig it out because it was so big. the suckers are coming up from the root system that was obvioulsy huge. I haven't tried week killer on it because I have other plants there and I don't want to hurt them. I cut it down again this morning, suckers 6 feet tall. If I had just left it when I cut it down the first time I would have had only one plant to fuss over, now I have about a hundred! Grinding the stump down below the ground will not stop the suckering.
We have CM's in pots at the farm(nursery). The roots will grow through the hole in the bottem of the pot, when we move the pot the little roots that are left will make a whole tree! I know it's hard to believe.

I wish I could trade. I planted 4 CMs that I wanted to get tall (the tags said they would get to 20 feet. They are maybe 8 feet. And the scrawny one that mildewed is only about 5 feet. But it hasn't mildewed since then.

ledanne, have you tried putting down landscape fabric or several layers of newspaper w/ mulch on top? Just wondering if that might work.
All my CMs are babies, the tallest is maybe 5 ft, and I am urging them to grow faster! Especially the "red" ones in back w/ the reddish green foliage. They are going to be my shade trees. Of course, too big is just as bad as too small, so I hope they will not get over 15 ft, but I could live w/ 20 or so. Eventually, they will provide some shade for my camellias. Brandy

I hope you don't think I'm knocking Crepe Myrtles. I think they are very pretty and graceful (if not hacked down to knubs like some people do every spring).

I'm just not sure it belongs in my rose bed, because I'm seeing some problems from having it there. I haven't totally made up my mind yet about removing it though.

Sandy

I, too, like your idea of combining crepe myrtles and roses,
BUT much to my chagrin, they are too prone to powdery mildew and aphids. Then add the dropped blooms - can be a mess.
what price beauty!!

Weldon

Sandy, that's called 'Crepe Murder'!

Elaine

All of my crape myrtles are in what's left of the lawn, close to and between large beds but not in them. My front lawn has been reduced to little more than a wide, undulating walkway (a green river, my neighbor says) through the garden. The crape myrtles are prominently placed within that space and help to tie everything together. So I guess you could say they're in the middle of the garden, only they shade and drop litter on grass, not roses.

The flowering trees I do have - and love - in one of my beds are a couple of double, reddish-pink, dwarf tree form altheas (rose of sharon, looks like 'Lucy') in a moderately shaded area of a large bed that dips into azalea territory at one end. They're perfectly healthy and bloom generously all summer long in a little bit more shade than will allow most roses to thrive, and more sun than azaleas will tolerate. It's a good use of a transitional area. They're still young, only about 6', and will eventually top out at maybe 10'.

Sandy, buford, the black mildew you describe sounds like it could be sooty mold, which would indicate an insect problem with the tree (see the link below). I've seen it only on the one tree I have that attracts crape myrtle aphids, and only if I don't take action quickly enough. My treatment of choice is messy but safe and effective: I just knock down the aphids with a mild solution of Ivory Soap from a hose end spray attachment, and they don't come back for the rest of the season. At least they never have. The necessity of spraying up into the tree makes it a very wet job, but not unenjoyable on a hot day if the tree is in an open area. I'd hate to tackle it in a bed full of thorny roses, though. The best attire for the job is a swimsuit and flip-flops.

Here is a link that might be useful: Crape Myrtle Diseases & Insect Pests

From my experience, I would think the crepe myrtle roots are going to compete (and win) against the rose roots. But your soil and climate are different...

I was away on vacation when the latest posts were made to this thread, and then they sure get "lost" quickly.

Roseyone, thank you for the link about Crepe Myrtle disease. I have had a severe ant problem this year, no particular species, it's been a variety. (I find that certain insects are a huge problem one year, and then the next it balances out and it may be a different insect).

I went out and looked at my Crepe Myrtle, and I do see some red ants scurrying up and down the trunks. They are probably farming aphids, although I didn't spot any obvious ones. However, I doubt the ants would be interested in the Crepe Myrtle for any other reason. Most likely, I'm going to have to break down and treat my whole yard. I'll try spraying some soap first.

My husband who is not a gardener, and who has said he doesn't care for Crepe Myrtles because they remind him of wild sumac bushes, was hesitant to cut it down. When I asked why, he said it looked nice in the bed and added some interest.

I protested that I thought it shaded a couple of roses too much, caused some disease issues, and that I could have room for more roses in there if the Crepe Myrtle was gone. His answer was that we could always take it down, but we can never put that particular one back. I don't know what to do.

Hoovb, I haven't noticed any roots invading my planting area. That's not to say it won't happen, but this is "supposed" to be a "smaller" Crepe Myrtle. However, I've planted several feet out from the base of it.

Sandy

In my experience, crepe myrtles and roses do not mix well at all.
In fact, crepe myrtles seem to be the arch-enemy of roses in my garden areas.
Insect secretions drop continually from the canopy of the crepe myrtles down onto the roses that are below, causing mildew. I've even had mildew on HOLLIES that are under crepe myrtles. Crepe myrtles often grow too large to spray, and who wants an ornamental tree that has to be sprayed anyway? I no longer grow any roses close to crepe myrtles.
The roots from crepe myrtles are very vigorous and competitive. They will out-muscle all but the toughest of roses.

Crepe myrtles can be very attractive, if you keep their toe nails clipped on a regular basis (remove basal suckers). But because I love my roses, I hate my crepe myrtles.

Randy

Thanks Randy. I was beginning to think I was imagining that the Crepe Myrtle was causing problems. However, I've seen crud on a couple of roses planted near the Crepe Myrtle that I hadn't seen on the same rose in another area away from the Crepe Myrtle. Same light exposure, and same spacing from neighbors. I can't even identify the crud. It doesn't look at all like blackspot, or anything else that I've seen in books. The roses just are not happy.

I'm going to have my husband cut it down tomorrow. I'm certainly not going to spray something that goes that far up in the air, when I don't even want to spray toxic stuff on my roses.

The Crepe Myrtle bed was also the one hardest hit with heavy thrips infestation, even all the red roses.

Sandy

Sandy, do you know how to recognize spider mite damage? My crepe myrtles have been the source of mite infestations even without them being in the same bed.

rosyone, I haven't seen spider mite damage. The stuff on the leaves is some kind of crud. Eventually, the rose bush defoliates. It isn't all of the roses, but just a few. However, some are located farther away. I have been told that ants farming aphids can cause crud on rose leaves, and there have been a lot of ants around, especially in the CM.

I e-mailed Malcolm Manners with the question of whether they cause roses problems, and he didn't feel they did, unless it was from the shading effect. He said the mildew strain that attacks CMs doesn't bother roses. I do feel the CMs attract more insects though. There is usually something or other flying out of the canopy in billowing clouds if disturbed in the evening. I don't know what they are, so they may be a good insect for all I know.

Sandy

The only pest insects I ever see on crapes is crape myrtle aphid, and it does not move to roses. Wrong species.

An interesting note here, for those interested -- the plant is "crape" myrtle with an "a." For years, Southern Living magazine has tried to change that, even inventing the myth that it was "ignorant yankees" who misspelled the word. But their spelling "crepe" is due to the eccentricity of an editor who feared that if they spelled it "crape," the "little old Baptist ladies" would cancel their subscriptions, since they might mis-read it "crap" and think the magazine was using a four-letter word! Of course what they fail to realize is that all the "little old Baptist ladies" already know that it's "crape" and that the magazine just can't spell. Oh well!

Malcolm

Malcolm, your post has sent me to bed tonight with a smile. It does seem that everyone wants to spell it "crepe", even the nursery where I purchased it from several years ago. We "yankees" get blamed for everything!

We did cut it down today. I felt extremely bad, as I hate killing things, but it was shading some of my roses too much, and I was afraid Marechal Niel would revolt. Not only that, it makes a huge mess in the bed. I do think they are very pretty trees and wish I had a large enough yard to have a row of them.

Sandy

Don't worry, Sandy - you probably haven't even fazed the crape myrtle yet... "challenged" it, that would be a better description, unless you proceeded to paint chemical herbicides on the cut stump :)

Stefan

I am going to drill holes in the stump and put stump killer down in there. Otherwise I know it will seek revenge.

Sandy

Thanks Everyone for this thread! I have a tempting big bed, at least 7 ft. deep X 20 ft. long, on one end of my new yard; a small deciduous magnolia at one end & otherwise empty. BUT on the other side of the fence, where they'd block the morning sun is a row of crape myrtles. I'm going to save myself a lot of frustration-- no roses in that bed. I'd be too tempted to get out there by dark of night with my pole pruners & thin the darned CM's!

Yeah, barbarag happy, that would be a no-no.
Sherry

I am proud to be the only northerner jumping in. I finally got a CM to establish here. When the winters get below 0, it dies back to the ground. I've transplanted it against the foundation of the house where it is faring better. It is a great plant, still blooming in October. The nearest rose is about 10 feet away, but other plants grow well with it.

The CM is very healthy. Japanese Beetles are the only pest that I see dining. It is disease free and quite beautiful over a long season.

Harryshoe - how tall does it get for you? Our daughter is in college in Virginia and I'm taken with the long blooming time of the crape myrtles I see when we transport her back and forth. I've toyed with the idea of trying one here, although I'm even a zone colder than you.

I once cut one down. I had to ax holes in the stump, pour chemicals in it, but it grew around it. Then I poured gas all over the ground and let it burn for hours, but it still suckered. Then, I poured concentrated weed killer on it and I think I finally got it.

Gee, we just planted a crape myrtle (Tuscarora) this last weekend. While it is not in a bed with roses, it is near them. I specifically planted it in hopes of providing some afternoon shade in the summer to a rose bed that fries that time of year, while the deciduous nature in winter will still allow plenty of light.

I hope I haven't made a mistake.

Ophelia,
Crepe Myrtles are only supposed to be hardy north to Baltimore. Attempts have been made to develop a hardier sport. It took me 7 years to reach the point where it seems established. For whatever reason, there is little dieback anymore. It is about 6' tall and wide. It doesn't seem likely to become a tree as it does in the south. It is very full and is covered in blooms July to October.

twotzus, the CM may work for you, but in Florida they become trees. My "tree" cast a great deal of shade even though some of my roses were 20 feet away. I also found that roses that are supposed to appreciate shade, still had disease issues and didn't seem as healthy as the same roses that were planted well away from the CM, despite getting 6 to 8 hours of sun a day. The other roses were not affected by shade cast by sun angle and buildings.

I know that the consenus is that CMs don't cause roses to have problems, but based on what I have observed over the past couple of years, I beg to differ.

Perhaps all the messy flower droppings, etc. are encouraging more disease spores. Mine also continually attracted armies of ants, with all the associated problems they cause. No birds ever nested in it.

Since getting rid of the CM my Marechal Niel is starting to sprout some new growth and looks much happier, and he wasn't even getting a huge amount of shade from it. So there must be something else.....and it may also depend on the particular cultiver of CM. All I know is a long time Florida rose grower told me not to plant roses near CMs. I did anyway, and it wasn't the smartest thing I've ever done.

gardenparty, thanks for the warning about having to just about blast the thing out of the ground to get rid of it. I swear it must be related to sumac bushes.

Sandy

I think the competition for water and food on top of shading is probably what results in poor rose performance with crape myrtles. Worse than sumac, crape myrtles are related to purple loosetrife - in fact, my pet name for crapes is "tree loosetrife". :)

No, they really are pretty things. But so is purple loosetrife!

Stefan

I agree. they are very, very pretty, if cared for and allowed to grow into a graceful shape. So many people cut them back to nubs. It's awful.

In my situation, it had to be a choice between the Crape or my roses. The roses won.

I'll bet one of the suckers from the stump would root easily, if I wanted another. I don't have anywhere to put one though, because I've been filling my yard with roses.

Sandy

Harryshoe- thanks for the information. I'm still intrigued, but may just wait for a hardier version to be developed. The places I have for it are far from any insulating foundations.

I find by thinning the branches of mine, I get less fungal problems. One or 2 sprayings with baking soda solution keeps it clean all season. Dormant spray in the winter works great too. Mostly the little flowers blow away in the wind. I'm grateful to have a tree that survives on little water and has flowers when everything around is frying in the summer heat. I have potted annuals under mine so there is not root competition. For me, it's a problem solver in difficult soil where I can't always water.

Since I have taken the time to read this entire thread, I will go ahead and post.

We live in Tulsa,perhaps the northern most area to grow the crape myrtles. I have more than 10 of them, and just love them. I do not like the bush look, so each year I cut out growth from the ground, and limit the tree to about 3 or 4 trunks. I cut the tree down in the winter to about 5 feet, I prune the outer branches up to about my shoulder height. I take all of the clutter out of the center, and once it begins to grow, I cut many of the new limbs from the center.

What I end up with is a very pretty little tree. The limbs are heavy enough to slope down, but do not interfere with my roses. The tree is 8-10 feet tall, and the branches are not packed in. The wind and sun gets through, and it has very little Powdery Mildew. They told me on the Tree Forum that the roses will not catch the powdery mildew from the Crape Myrtles, and that seems to be true.

I have never sprayed a crape myrtle, and in the front where I have 2 white ones, I think they look very pretty when they glow in the evening.

One of the ones in the back is purple, and had a huge trunk. We cut it to the ground, and it has sprung right back up. The new growth will be easy to cut when I get a chance, and we will have to begin digging down, and cutting out the roots.

I think the big difference between us is that we have cold enough winters, that we can more easily prune them, and shape them as we please. Some people call it crape murder, but we don't do that, we carefully prune so it looks pretty.

I am glad that I followed this thread because we do have problems with ants, and I intend to return to the link to see what it says about ants.

Sammy

My white crape myrtle is Acoma. The link says it is resistant to aphids. In the back the others are different shades of pink. I always cut mine under where they were cut the year before, or I trim out the other branches that come out so I don't have trees with that mess where they perform "crape murder", a look I don't care for.

I like the fact that you can trim it any way you wish, and it will grow. My yard is too small for a huge one, and until I began trimming them more, the walk through my garden meant that your head would bob up and down. I want the CM to blend with the roses.

Sammy

Sammy, it sounds as though your climate, and perhaps the type of Crape Myrtle you are growing is ideal for you and your climate. They sound lovely.

The one I had always attracted armies of ants, and since removing it the ant population has dropped considerably. The ants got so bad they invaded and killed several of my roses. They were especially bad this year. I'm sure that getting rid of the ants has also eliminated any fungus issues as well. They are quite the little farmers. My roses are SO much happier now.

For what it's worth, Florida has its' own unique set of factors, but I suppose any area does. My "dwarf" Crape Myrtle was 20 feet high, and growing. I may eventually plant another as a speciman in my yard - all by itself, but I would certainly research the different Crape Myrtles to find the most disease and pest resistant one for my area. I've finally learned that just because a local nursery carries something, it does not always mean it will work in that area.

Sandy